probably, for example socery's shields work/ed differently in PVP arenas compared to general PVE, it took someone with ice or fire to pierce them whereas they can't be negated in PVE phase. hardlight also had many abilities adjusted for PVP. as to whether the programmers we have now are the same ones we had then and whether they could do so again, is somewhat debatable.
PvP threads is 2019 is wild. Egos murdered this side of the game. It is not salvageable anymore. Someone would literally have to buy the rights and overturn all of the dumb PvE-related s*** that was done since 2012 against player advice. Even then, the best players would still find the game changers, things that would seem unbalanced or broken. This game (and the vast majority of games in general) has always had something in it that wasn't fair. That relationship between us (players) always finding the most broken things and throwing it in the face of SOE/DB repeatedly was never going to end well unless there was someone mature handling it. Spytle was not that guy. The fix would be to overhaul and simplify the game in terms of both gear and mechanics. No one is going to miss WM/AMs. The original plan we proposed in 2011 for unified gear was, and is, still the best choice. Scale PvE difficulty by collective raid rating and tier so it's always challenging. PvP players would just enjoy competition, we don't need much. This system puts everyone on the same page and allows for inclusion in both areas. I know a lot of PvE guys probably want to chime in on this, but I could get 5 PvP guys to run through the top 1000 PvE players like a hot knife through butter. There is a whole side of the game that you don't even understand after years and years of playing primarily because of that separation, not necessarily your ability. There isn't any real way for your input to provide any fixes if you don't understand this side of the game. That is why PvP isn't fixable. Poor mindset with working with players. Poor decision making. Only taking input from brown-nosers. Not understanding that it'll be always contentious. PvE players are far more docile and forgiving (and spend the most). I wouldn't waste my time trying to placate you guys (myself included) either. So I genuinely understand why they don't give a s***. At least PC got to fight PS finally. That was fun for like the 2-3 months it lasted.
well stated, if anything i "wish" the PVP system we have/had was implemented in PVE, at least then people would actually run as support rather than using just dps most of the time. indeed some very outstanding points.
Lolol aye X why I heard that in Tysons Voice lol goofing off this.07 rip lol Miss the ol school pvp players lol I had the pleasure of dueling you as well as other top notch names before all the **** hit the fan pvp SMH ya'll still play?
PVP has been broken for a very long time. This game wasn't built as a Street Fighter like game. In order for the combat to be "fair", it really has to be like that. It has to be designed for 1-v-1 combat to start with balanced power sets. Hard to do with characters with set builds (Legends) and near impossible to do with PC PVP where players pick their powers. Legends is pretty strait-forward. The power sets of those character should not be linked to PC or NPC power sets (that might get changed and revamped as the game evolves). However, they probably are. So whenever the PC/NPC PVE powers are changed they affect PVP - Legends or otherwise. Most "fighters" don't have you battling more than one opponent at a time, so adding in crowd control and group powers starts whacking out the balance as soon they are part of the mix. DCUO PC PVP comes with the built in lack of balance by allowing characters to get better armor which increases their stats. PVP has to have flat stats across the board for it to feel "fair" to a new player. No one likes to be crushed with no hope of winning <----but that is the current state of the new player PVP experience unless they are fighting like level characters in Police Stations/Safehouses. Same basically goes for the Watchtower :: anyone that is really interested in PVP is going to check out the other person's gear and make sure that they are at least on par if not surpassing the PVP CR of the intended target. For DCUO PC PVP to thrive, it has to have a separate mechanic for armor or weapons than the PVE gear. This PC PVP gear would be standardized per role and would remain the same regardless of level. The PC PVP gear would kick in when in PC PVP combat (in On-duty or open world). The PVE gear would still affect any surrounding PVE enemies in the same manner, but dishing out and taking PC PVP would all work through the standardized PC PVP gear. This would mean NO PC PVP gear leveling. Instead reward with a "threat ranking system" where a player's character that wins frequently gains higher Threat Raking and loses/deaths cause Threat Raking to go down. Threat Ranking has no game impact other than a symbol of how successful that character has been at PC PVP. PC PVP is going to continue to be boring and on-sided until balancing in a manner at least similar to this is done. I imaging that this would require a huge overhaul of the game. PVP would essential have to be gutted out of the system and redone. That is the only way to make doing anything to PVP worthwhile as anything less does nothing for the player base at large. I still run two PVP villians. My main PVP villain doesn't PVP any more; ranked up to near max gear, but I no longer found PVP to be fun for a character over level 30 due to various factors (I don't like to gank others, etc.) The two characters are open world PVPers and I simply don't run into that many PVP opponents in the Open World any more. I'm not going to go up to a police station and ask for a duel or any of that nonsense. I run around areas that I have decided are those characters turf doing patrols and seeing if I see any PVP opponents. I don't even bother looking what CR or checking their armor. I just jump them. If they are over level 30, they probably have higher CR PVP gear. and I stand no chance of fighting them. If they are under level 30, half the time a character in PVP mode isn't wearing any PVP gear; the other half of the time, I'm going to beat them down easily unless they can successfully escape from me - and I make it real hard for them to do that (better have that movement escape power in PVP!) So, yeah, I don't see PVP getting fixed any time soon as there is only a very small player base for it and that player base doesn't want a level playing field (across all character level/CRs) for PC PVP as far as I can tell.
"Fix PVP" I say add LSH Legends Icon Bouncing Boy to any and all Legends Arenas. Hence problem solved.
How to make money with pvp.. Look at the company's that are successful in doing so... Fortnite.. battlepass.. Now if dcuo had a pvp battle pass, charged $10 like fortnite, has tier system that unlocks pvp only styles, materials, auras, pets, etc.. Nothing stat boosting.. just visuals.. Pvpers like to look "pvp".. examples like chasing captain colds good.. Like fortnite, have progression for the non- battlepass owner , to encourage everyone to participate, but a quicker exp progression for battlepass owners. Each season there will be new progression with new styles The reality of this game is people pve and pvp and like looking good and showing off to each other in the WT/HoD.
Concept... "Phantom zone pvp phase" Everyone is a base level 30, equal but low enough stats that no power is to strong or to weak. Everything else matters. Skill points Augmented Artifacts Pets And most importantly skill.. These will determine who the most powerful pvper is.. This would replace the current unused pvp phase... opening up a whole new area for the new generation of pvpers to take interest. A place where hero's can fight villains or duel in a relatively equal setting were gear isn't the determining factor, especially with the extreme differences between pve and pvp gear
Skill could be largely gapped with players who have tons of SP, maxed out artifacts and maxed out augments. There is also still certain powers that would wreck others.
But that's the point.. The low gear stats of a fresh level 30 allow for the overpowered and the under performing powers to have a smaller differential. It's only when gear stats get high that the differential between powers becomes obvious. That's why sub 30 pvp is more fun than post 30pvp. Now regarding sp, augments, artifacts... those are suppose to be the player driven strenght of their character. Players will be even more inclined to chase after sp, boosting augments and investing in artifacts. All these will and should represent players strength. But without the high stats of gear, sp, augments, artifacts will only be a small boost to stats since the stats are all percentage based. The reality is most new players (in the last 2-3 years) just want to duel or open world pvp. They don't want to spend hundreds of hours chasing pvp gear in arenas, they just want to pvp. The pvp phase is dead, my idea is a low cost and relatively easy to implement as its basically just stat bounding the entire pvp phase. None of this would apply to arenas pvp, as that should remain the "competitive" pvp. But breathing life back into open world pvp is what's needed to make this game great again. We all have fond memories of our times in open world pvp, the gang wars, the raids on police stations/ night clubs, the giant battles in the park. Most new players will never get to experience these things.
My entire league left the game because of how terrible pvp has become. That's 20 of us either members of having bought all of the DLCs. Because we did enjoy PVE as well but the game felt stale if we weren't able to fight 4s and 5s all night 2 or 3 times a week. Especially once you've finished grinding all the gear and feats for a new content. So the argument saying they won't fix PvP because it brings em no money is pretty much invalid. You lose your player base, you lose cash, simple as that. EU servers are this dead now because of the lackings of pvp, ask any OG player not just my leaguemates. We all had the game since launch and would be happy to DL it again but not until PvP gets better...
Most new players would think that sucks because they just get facerolled and have no idea what killed them once the first place. Do you play arenas? Gear actually doesn’t give you a huge difference in stats at all...that’s why a lot of pvpers hated the stat clamping and boosting in arenas, gear didn’t give too much of an advantage so most felt why are they gearing up to an extent especially since it takes so many marks. The reason open world pvp is a chaotic mess is BECAUSE of things like trinkets, artifacts, pve gear, etc. But open world is kinda meant to be like that. Not saying they couldn’t have this Phantom Zone pvp open world area with pvp restrictions, now that would actually be interesting, because it would be an area you could CONSTANTLY COMPETITIVELY pvp in with the balance of arenas.
Nothing will improve unless they figure out a way to monetize it, in DCUO circa 2019 if it doesn't make them money then tuff' luck. I'm almost to the point of tracking down the current Owner/CEO's personal info to place the dev team on blast - it's crazy how they get their heads up their own rears and forget things that are important to others. PvP could generate viable and sustainable revenue for them if they'd just put some effort forth instead of replying with "there are no plans for pvp at this time". I don't expect rocket scientist to build mopeds but I do expect the dev team to fix something in their game that is now such a failure, it's an embarrassment to the game and to their namesake whether they realize it or not.
I will prefix everything I'm about to say by stating I like PVP in general and specifically liked the large scale battles whether a good 8v8 match or even better some of the epic Diamond Heists or Ring Wars that you'd see a few years back. However like most I can't be bothered these days given imbalances that more often than not make matches effective won or lost before they start. So with that said while I'd like to see PVP updates become regular again I can see why they back-burner them as it's an almost perpetual drain on resources with few direct advantages. First, the nature of PVP means every change results in potential disruptions to balance which they have to go back and change which in turn causes more imbalances. Couple that with the way every change seems to garner almost as much resentment as praise. Specifically there's a standard accusation by a good chunk of the community just about every time there's a change that the underlying goal is to generate a new FotM power with the aim of getting people to respec their powers and drop some money. That's not even counting that, even more than with PVE, people actively try to find out how to game the system or exploit changes to stay on top. To be clear I don't blame people for doing that, the same thing tends to happen in all competitive environments but the end result is again a constant process of having to update. Even with all the above it wouldn't be as hard a decision to commit resources if PVP generated some direct revenue so they could do a cost to benefit to determine what a reasonable expenditure would be. People can decry this as greedy but they are a business and it would be reckless to allocate on-going a large resource expenditure with no tangible benefit. At best PVE generates indirect revenue by incentivizing people to keep the playing but given that you can PVP as effectively from a free account as a sub there's no real direct revenue. To reiterate I'd like regular PVP updates but can't blame them for not taking that approach.
I just got back into PVP after seeing nothing but negative feedback about it and I have to say that I think people are hella off base. It plays/feels muuuuuch better than it used to back when RPS was a thing and everyone could run trinkets/mods. RPS was always terrible, especially in 1v1. The things I've see people most complaining about as cheese ended up not being cheesy at all and could be mitigated. 1v1 seems well rounded now. That said, 4v4 and up matchmaking can still be dogshit sometimes. That's always been the case though and Iunno what could be done about that without making the queue take way longer. However, this is better now too, since RPS used to make this happen a lot more often. I don't consider having to PVE for SP to be a valid complaint. PVE has to PVP for SP. If people don't want that, there's Legends. Queues are popping much faster for me now than they did back in the day. I have the vast majority of my PVP feats from then and the few I'm missing, for which I used to sit in queue all day every day and never get, pop w/o issue now. I used to despise PVP but am finding it actually enjoyable now.
I don't see anything you've written here to be actually reflective of this thread and pvp in general. RPS was the defining characteristic of PvP in this game besides the combat system itself. It brought another element of strategy to pvp setups where you could run a tank to counter a groups 2 troll setup, run a controller is dps gear to counter a groups 2 healer setup, a tank is dps gear etc. Now not only is the RPS system gone but also the multiple gearsets for each role and now its 1 generic set. RPS also gave the feeling of accomplishment if you were a controller duelling a tank and were succesfull or a healer dulling a controller and despite the confidence role bonus they were fighting against they still got the win. Your point about the RPS being terrible in 1v1 is moot because most duels of a competitive nature were always dps stance and the players who want to duel only in support received just as much flack back then as they do now regardless. The cheese you ended up not seeing is because a large amount of the actual pvp playerbase is gone and you don't see that in pvp anymore. Go try to 1v1 an atomic in tank stance, a mental in controller stance, a fire in tank stance, go 1v1 someone using rifle. How about rage and light players just doing endless combos on you which are all uninterruptible and if you try to block the damage you leave yourself open to a easy counter. 1v1 is the biggest joke in this game now unless its weapons only it's gotten to the point where if you want to have a proper pvp tournament you have to have a long list of rules just to make it fair. So your point that 1v1 seems well rounded now is completely and utterly laughable Using trinkets and having a utility belt also brought another element to pvp in a group setting because not only did you have another trinket options to clip combos to hide counters or finishing combos you could also use the damage trinkets to sync with a group in order to focus fire players and have more effective hard target switches during fights because you would have the sync'd damage from your trinket to assist your group, that element is completely gone now in pvp among other things. Your PvP ques being sped up are a direct result of the vast majority of the pvp population being gone which has changed the ranked based system which was why you saw long que times in the past because more than likely your rank was low and the game was taking longer to match you against opponents it deemed to be within your rank. My groups with Fami could sit in a que the entire night for 5s and only see a couple matches when we knew full well there were dozens of groups queing to the point where multiple players switched toons to unranked ones so we could even get a que with a respectable wait time. Calling the posters in this thread's opinion off base when you don't have the experience in what these posters are actually talking about and simply brush them aside because you, yourself, didn't see anything wrong is not indicative of what the issue with PvP is in this game currently.
If you just got back into PvP, give it a few days assuming you're winning almost all your matches. Haven't found official verification on skill based matchmaking but anytime I play on my main I fight end tier good players, but when I go on an alt or another psn, I fight players that seem brand new to the game for an extended time period. This comment sounds like you haven't met a good 2face in legends or a mental/gadgets troll or atomic tank in batcave/lairs yet.
if people aren't using weapons in pvp and just powers it's not really pvp for DCUO any longer as that removes the whole counter system. PVP should be primarily weapons and powers as a support. if they cant get back to that its pointless. out fighting someone is what made it great, any smuck can just throw powers around
I'm getting matched against plenty of 101s running the "cheesy/broken" stuff. There are a few solid peeps I consistently draw against. Some of the "cheese" took a round to get used to and think about but it doesn't seem insurmountable to me in DPS stance. Being aware of my surroundings feels a lot more important now than it used to, with fights requiring more mobility. I don't get the impression there are enough people queuing for matchmaking to be cherrypicking matches that strictly, however. I get a wide mix of matchups but it does seem to prioritize the 101s/draw matches w/e those peeps are online and waiting. I'm not 101 yet and this has been the case since mebbe a few wins in. Outside of structured scrims between fully formed teams, RPS was utter garbage and totally unnecessary given that roles are already natural soft counters for one another. All RPS did was make matchmaking a complete nightmare. It's not "strategy" when your matchup is random... it's RPS. Hence the name... Blind RPS has even less strategy than real RPS, which is saying something. No, people did not mostly 1v1 in DPS. That's BS. Completely subjective at best. Also, Tank vs Healer wants to have a chat with your PoV on this in that this matchup was a, boring drawn out slog. RPS was contrived, pointless, and abritrary. It still exists via soft counters and role toolkits but without the bs. Sweet assumptions.. wrong though. By "not seeing" it I meant "I'm encountering everything people are QQing about and decrying as cheesy but it's not the insurmountable bs they're talking about." I constantly run into atomic tanks, mental trolls, rage, etc. Superpowers still consume power... ppl still get CC'd out of bs... toolbox loadouts still work. I get the impression some people are just trying to face-tank stuff they shouldn't be, stand in AoE, eat avoidable attacks, and just try to go shot-for-shot in general. Like... you don't block uninterruptable attacks... you either evade or you punish the user for trying to do it w/o blues. Yeah... obviously if you just let yourself eat **** the whole time it's gonna go bad. Yes... everyone having supply drops, orbitals, and an army of pets was great and in no way arbitrarily dragged fights out for no good reason........... . . . . Dude... what the actual **** is with these idiotic assumptions? I did 99.9% of all PVP feats up to and including HT years ago. No... I did not see long queue times due to being "low rank." JFC... It wasn't just longer queues when I was maxed, or when I was new, it was longer/shittier in general to the point that some 4v4 n 5v5 maps, despite often exclusively queuing them throughout my PVP progression and extensively when they were the only things I had left to do in the game whatsoever, would simply never pop. Conversely, I get them multiple times a day now, while solo queuing them, despite even more diluted queue options and a supposedly terrible pvp scene. Calling a poster's opinion wrong because you make unfounded assumptions, thinly veiled insults, and are simply brushing it aside because your head is buried up your *** is not indicative of any issues with PvP currently. Your entire post amounts to "muh rps" and "b-b-but atomic/mental/rage!." I wasn't trying to be disrespectful to anyone, I was providing feedback. Don't come at me with this "oh well you must be new/inexperienced" attitude ********.
