We need alternative options to stats clamping...

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by STsource, Jan 22, 2022.

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  1. KHALONofOGUN 10000 Post Club

    What will it hurt/What's the problem?

    Right now there are a few people here admitting that they are avoiding EEG like the plague, while others are running some of it occasionally (or just skipping certain specific content). None of us have any solid numbers of how many people are running EEG content. They do.

    The harm could be that if it's made optional, the few Endgame Players participating in any EEG content would drop the clamped version like a hot potato or maybe run the clamped version only once on Thursdays or Fridays, leaving other players with long queues again the rest of the week. Maybe, despite the small number of complaints on official channels (forums, twitter, Facebook) it's actually working (based on their metrics). Making things optional will definitely change that....quite possibly not for the better (for their purposes).
    • Like x 5
  2. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    You are correct....and this is why it will not be (and was not made) optional. However, it also means that there are far more players who don't want to run clamped (but will do so begrudgingly for the rewards) than those that really do want it. If this were not true, this issue would not come up. You could have the unclamped runs as they were AND the clamp and the clamp runs would be booming. The 'minority' group that wants to run OP through unclamped content wouldn't cause an issue for the greater majority who like the clamp....IF there were a majority. We don't need 'solid' numbers to know this as our small subsection of the community here has obviously voiced this opinion...and they are a sampling of the overall community, small or not.

    Every clamper seems to agree with this as they are all pretty well opposed to any meaningful runs (meaning feats are still there....the MAIN reason someone ran the old content before marks/gear were added) being left in runs without a clamp.

    Which by the way is fine. Most everyone will argue for a system which they believes benefits them the most. Both sides do that...most everyone does that IRL and in games.
    • Like x 4
  3. Black Dawn Steadfast Player

    Alternative to the clamp: Get good.
    • Like x 3
  4. Melusine Midnight Rainbow Phoenix

    But it doesn't mean that at all. Just read this thread! It seems to actually mean that people just avoid the problematic instances, steamroll it anyway with friends/league, or are the cause of the horror stories. I disagree with the basis of your statement. Regardless of which, that's not an answer to my question :D

    I'll guess you're against the idea?

    Personally when I run Omnibus I absolutely steamroll everything or avoid the problematic instances, so that is also my own experience. I enjoy it when I'm in the mood, but I don't see it helping anyone really learn or improve.

    As a good DPS you can still ROFLstomp 90% of the game, if not more. If I go with a healer or tank friend? Yeah we're gonna get through stuff like a knife through butter, get marks and move on. We only have to like open doors and talk to the odd NPC.

    And that is why I'm asking if the mission here is being fulfilled.
  5. Proxystar #Perception

    This might be a bit on the nose, but...

    I really think at this point the only people really truly opposed to the clamp are those that are feat hunting and aren't good enough to get the feats when a level of difficulty is applied exceeding that of just mindlessly squashing the content.

    Time and time again the optional stat clampers say, I don't want loot, just let me get my feats, this is no joke you only have to look at their posts honestly and see it.

    I generally support an optional system, but it simply isn't practical, that's why when I was opposed to stat clamping for years and years I said and often had arguments with solowing about the fact it would never be optional.

    Despite the fact we both acknowledged an optional system would be nice we also both knew full well a mandatory system was the only practical way to apply it, which is why we argued about it constantly.

    With that being said, the way the devs have applied the clamp really isn't that bad, it's far less daunting that I feared would be imposed and in fairness and credit to the devs they've done a better job at applying it than numerous other titled games which lead to my opposition to originally.

    I have to say, given how rabidly opposed to stat clamping I was, for me to turn around and change my mind speaks volumes and probably indicates, despite your likely objection, that any ongoing resistance to it is probably erring within the realms of the incredibly unreasonable.

    And that isn't because I think highly of myself, but rather because of the quality of the system being put in place having the ability to change the mind of someone so staunchly opposed to such a move for years and years.

    So again it really feels like people just want easy, effortless feats, which I have to say really isn't reasonable.

    the content even clamped is just as easy, in fact, based on wonderverse dropping in, even easier than when it was 3 DLCs old.

    The feats should at that point be easy enough to obtain if you decide to spend the time going for them, if a feat was truly impossible then it by itself should be reported as an outlier, sometimes though people just aren't good enough.

    Notwithstanding that, there are plenty of SP to be had in the game, more than you need in fact to ever be incredibly powerful without ever even getting the most difficult.

    Feats are meant to be seen as an additional grind and something for the players to strive for, not everyone is going to get them all and there's nothing at all wrong with that, people need to stop chasing the Joneses, you really do not have to bust your boiler getting every single feat

    In short too, people really do need to stop crying about the clamp, report any true outliers, don't cry wolf and just get on with it :)
    • Like x 7
  6. Tiffany6223 Dedicated Player

    I don't like the clamp because they took something away from me that was mine. It's a punishment, a tax for playing the game and being successful at it. As I said before, I don't care anymore, I will stay in end game content where High CR players belong
    • Like x 1
  7. willflynne 10000 Post Club

    Before the clamp, going into older content meant you could take down some NPCs with a pull or just by blocking. Other NPCs could be burned through before players had a chance to experience or even worry about any of the attacks or mechanics they might employ. Even if players try and engage with the mechanics and the content in that environment, they're just as likely to blow through it and ignore the mechanics without meaning to do so.

    Now? Sure it's still pretty much a breeze, but you don't get to sneeze at an enemy and watch them melt. You actually have to engage with the content. And with no real way of being able to accidentally blow through the content and ignore the mechanics you have to deal with, you've got a greater chance of newer players actually learning from the experience rather than just being dragged through it.

    So no, I can't say I'm for your idea, especially since the clamp creates a better/more productive environment for players to accomplish what you think an unclamped setup would provide.
    • Like x 7
  8. Spider Jerusalem Well-Known Player

    Drop it like a hot potato!? Why would people (who claim to represent the majority) opt out of a clamp they claim makes the game sooooo much more enjoyable?

    You can't have it both ways. It's either an improvement people enjoy or it isn't. If it isn't, time to let it go.
  9. Proxystar #Perception

    High CR players don't belong in just end game, they belong in the whole game. The game was designed to be played in its entirety.

    The clamp isn't a punishment, it's a mechanism in which to ensure content isn't entirely undermined where content becomes frivolous, effortless and to an extent entirely unenjoyable for some players who don't want content to be entirely without challenge or destroyed in seconds resulting in players learning nothing.

    Your sentiment that it is punishing you is exaggerated given the level of generosity in the clamp, numerous games are far stricter.

    You suggest they took something from you that was yours? I appreciate your sentiment here, but again the clamp isn't that hard so I feel this is an exaggeration of the reality a true even remotely skilled end game player experiences in clamped content.

    If people are struggling as much in clamped content as some posters in here would like us to believe then I would suggest they themselves either need to work in character attributes that penetrate the clamp, get a bit better at the game or find a better grouo of players to help with feats.

    If you're after feats or smoother runs then I'm not sure why you thought random queuing omnibus would result in that, do yourselves a favor and start custom building your groups more.
    • Like x 6
  10. GregTheFarmer Active Player

    I'll remember this the next time you complain about something the devs did.....

    OH RIGHT, you never complain about things they do, you just constantly white knight for them. And praise everything they do no matter what.

    Also, I'm not surprised by a single name on the list of people that liked your post because most of em are just white knight for the devs too..
    • Like x 2
  11. Bipolar Diva Well-Known Player

    • Like x 3
  12. zZzTorrOzZz Committed Player

    All I know is I played and acquired all feats in Prime and Battle for Earth in a CR 75 suit before all the bells and whistles of Home Turf and beyond so the plus 15 is barely applicable.

    Try bare bones stock suit in that raid and tell me again about +15 being slack. You people practically have this game handed to you on a platter and I'm just real sick of all the whining.
    • Like x 2
  13. Ryazan Dedicated Player

    I'm already good, ty. Yet I would still prefer to see the clamp being optional for the sake of feats that require more than 1 good person being obtainable without stress for progression.
    • Like x 5
  14. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    Im done w/all the whiny cry baby “i cant beat ____ now, its too hard whaaa waaa waaa”

    Here my stat clamp suggestions.
    1) give the hand held babies what they want and take the clamp off. Heres how that should look
    - no feats attainable unclamped
    - no marks attainable unclamped
    - loot locks back in effect
    There, go pew pew an learn nothing and ruin the run for others who do wanna learn. And people wonder why the game has such terrible players now days smfh

    2) do NOT remove clamp for any elite unless you have the headline legit. Once you have the headline:
    - no feats attainable unclamped
    - no marks attainable unclamped
    -loot locks back in effect
    There, beat the content for real just once an maybe learn something about the game or how to do your job then u can pew pew an go back to learning nothing as before.

    3) clamp gets adjusted to what it should have been all along and clamps you at CR and NOT above it (its too hard for these scrubs as is, no sense ruining it for the rest of us to cater to them).

    Thats the compromise i propose
    Make the content as hard as it was always intended to be and give the babies the option to opt out. If u opt out, you OPT OUT.
    The game is already dumbed down well beyond what it ever should have been and the constant nerf’s and dumbed down content gave us this group of whiners that cant do anything w/out the devs holding their hand. Didnt use to be this way.
    But thats your compromise. Have your hand held an get nothing for it OR learn to play the game an do your job and dont be such a whiney leech on the groups ur in and get rewards an feats.
    Nothing i this game is as hard or long or skill based as it should be
    Pick your path…….
    • Like x 1
  15. Dry Cleaning Well-Known Player

    lol just get rid of it, no one likes it anyway
  16. Catastroflare Well-Known Player


    Wrong, too.

    It's not an issue of being good or having skill, it's about TIME! How many times do I have to reiterate this to you pro-clamp wannabe elitists?

    Not everyone has the time to spend on this game like some of you do. And on top of that, you've earned feats as content has been released. New players have to play catch up and are at a massive disadvantage in this regard and no matter how you spin it, the stat clamp does not help AT ALL.

    So get off your damn high horses, create a new toon, and get alllllllll those feats all over again and see what the grind really looks like from a new or returning player's perspective. No? Then stop with the craptacular speculation and don't bother posting your worthless comments that don't help but not so subtly insult other players.
    • Like x 5
  17. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    Although I seem to get drawn into these discussions....a LOT...It normally starts after the 'get gud' solutions are thrown out there. Again, this does not apply to a full league run or someone repeatedly able to build feat hunting groups. The clamp is indeed 'easier' than it would have been when the content was current....maybe not as easy as 'current' + 50 CR, which you would have right before a DLC goes clamped in EEG....but we just got the system, so it's hard to say except for WV content. There is nothing to 'get gud' about for many people who simply just need something and don't have a ton of people to rely on to get it. They might personally be as 'gud' as you can get....they are not getting 'Stuff of Legends' by themselves or with their 2 even better buddies.

    My personal dislike is for the additional time...most of which is not spent doing any feats, but just trying to run the content with a bunch of nimrods...which ARE plentiful in the game so I run it as little as possible. Now, that does apply to feat hunting for things that are more than a 1 pass feat. Repeatedly building groups so you can say do combos in Nexus or any other feat that would require many multiple runs just means you have to spend a lot of time (and no....no one HAS to have every feat...bla, bla, bla) making and re-making groups because no one is going to want to re-run the same old grindy stuff that WE either A) ran as part of 'current' content or B) re-ran when the content was old and quick. Yes, people want some easy feats and for feats that require skill and precision and co-ordination on a single pass...I'm right there with the most staunch clampers. Those feats should be hard, BUT there are a lot which the S in SP is mainly just 'build a group'. Sorry, but the #1 'skill' in this game should not be the ability to repeatedly build groups of people who need the same old bass content. I'd challenge some of the clampers to jump on a new toon, new account, and drop all their private channels and friends/league lists and give it a shot like someone who does not have those things. You know why they won't? Because it's a colossal waste of time....a waste of time they say everyone else should be saddled with.

    For the record, any old feats I don't yet have I'm fine with not having...the clamp can be 100x harder and it wouldn't impact me any more as far as feats are concerned. That doesn't mean I can't see the issue for other people that can't say that.

    It would be a bear to code....but maybe an 'optional' unclamped instance could be unlocked once you've hit a certain checkpoint which is tied to the 'hardest' feat(s) in a run. Like 'Masters of Madness' for Shattered Gotham or 4 corners in AnB or EO in Dox? You get those actual 'skill' based feats done I doubt many would care that the rest are made 'easier' for multiple runs to be done quickly. Again....it won't happen, but I'd guess most of the objections to the 'easy' getting of feats apply to those who feel everyone should have to 'earn' what they earned...even if they 'earned' it being dragged along by a OP goon group when the content was new or just before the clamp kicks in....cause you know...that still happens too and is apparently fine.
    • Like x 3
  18. Kestral Committed Player

    I watched some people die 13 times in 3 minutes fighting Carol Ferris in the star sapphire raid. Block on skull is apparently too hard when you can't be carried ;)
    At the end of the raid only myself and one other had zero deaths everyone else had at least 7 they did not have before going into the last fight.

    Stat clamp needs to stay so these trash players learn how to actually play the game instead of be carried by others.:p
    • Like x 1
  19. Proxystar #Perception

    Boohoo, cry me a river, you're playing an MMO and MMO's are about the long grind, do you think I earned my SP over night? Of course I didn't, so why should you?

    Those last four words are also somewhat rhetorical because you and I both know new players have it infinitely easier than players who played when content was relevant, even with the clamp, so don't play that disingenuous "woe is me; the new player" card, it doesn't wash with me.

    If you want the feats then spend the time, just like anyone else before you, you don't deserve absolutely free handouts simply because you're new and expect to be given the golden path to the top of the castle.
    • Like x 6
  20. shoegazer Well-Known Player

    This ^

    The biggest false narrative that's being spun here is that the reason why people don't want the clamp is because the content is too hard for us..what a bunch of ****

    It's TIME (like Catastroflare and many others have said)..and not wanting to rely on a mostly toxic, crap community to get things done..

    a community that they have refused to clean up for a decade plus now..the only time they've ever taken any action is when it costs them money

    If any of you think forcing people to play clamped content together is gonna make this community better you're delusional

    (need an example of what I'm talking about, you need look no further than a few posts up)

    Also..to the gatekeepers in here..gatekeeping is never a good thing..but gatekeeping in what's basically become a PVE only game is especially pathetic
    • Like x 5
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