We need alternative options to stats clamping...

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by STsource, Jan 22, 2022.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Proxystar #Perception

    Every week I do a few omnis at least for the journal entries

    I have a battle tank build set up exactly for that purpose, because apart from the odd occassion I often do exactly that and carry groups through.

    There are times when I have quite literally finished boss fights by myself and at times ive been on my own from nearly the beginning of the fight.

    I could wipe off course, but often I won't because there fact I can often solo finish it proves my point, the clamped content isnt as hard as anti clampers alledge, it's not the content, it's the trash players ;)
    • Like x 2
  2. DAnomalous Level 30

    The players are the true elite mechanics
  3. Plowed In Dedicated Player

    Well put the Artifact Finder feat up there with Funstone Crystals, Kill Thrill, or the antiquing feat from ToTD.

    I saw those feats popping often during the Save the Universe, and that’s how I’d imagine you’d encourage runs thru Nexus…
    • Like x 1
  4. Quantum Edge Devoted Player

    It's a change in culture. Any sort of seismic change like stat clamping is going to cause some people to get angry about it. It's a different status quo from the previous 11 years. Personally, I like the clamp. It brings DC in line with other MMOs. But having said that, I do understand the frustration. When i was gearing up, way back in 2011, the Hive duo consistently beat me up. As I geared up I would go back in and mop the floor with the NPCs.
    • Like x 1
  5. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    That is an option....a viable one, and better than stuffing some 'nexus bot' pet at the end of Nexus.

    Now I will tell you that I have some low toons that need the feat for the iconics in the tunnel in FAM/BIA. They ran FAM almost every day in STU. NONE of them completed the 4 iconics feat, because no one wanted to stop and kill them. And while the ToTD accumulation feats I'm sure made some headway, not many built statues (unless they needed them) or got vases (unless they needed them). Not saying it wouldn't help and it would for sure make the runs easier to get into, but for some that require ANY co-ordination or effort (unlike artifact finder), it's not much of a guarantee.

    But yeah, it's an option for a few pieces of content for sure.
  6. Dry Cleaning Well-Known Player

    lol straw man alert. ppl are not saying the content is hard, they're saying it's long and tedious, been there done that.
    • Like x 4
  7. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    You got them(grind feats at least) when the content was CURRENT, probably with no additional effort....not back tracking over 11 years of runs. Unless you have a way of letting new people time travel so that Nexus is again 'current' (which Plowed In makes a decent suggestion), that ship has sailed. Any amount of time or effort spent on old grind feats is automatically on top of keeping up with current, which makes it more time and effort than you or I put in.

    And no, I'm against selling the feats. As 'easy' as an unclamped run is, I'd still expect to have to run it. But yeah, in the end, I'd guess we'll see feats sold for the very reason I'm fighting against the mandatory time sink. We know that DBG has a history of laying out a path where you can choose time or money (cats, xp, cr skips)....SP is likely just the next logical step.
    • Like x 4
  8. catplaysxoxo Dedicated Player

    I forgot which raid it is but when you fight Black Lantern Martian Manhunter and Black Lantern Gorilla Grodd, I did that raid numerous times unclamped and guess what? None of that mattered because if we don’t do the mechanic we won’t progress so feeling OP did nothing. RIP Elite still was difficult if you didn’t follow the mechanics which was to cleanse yourself on the fountain. Being unclamped did nothing either. I wouldn’t be against if they lowered the amount or kill’s you have to do such as defeating a certain amount of paradox in central city or defusing the bombs in that one battle for earth duo. Either way I’ll eventually get to finish those kinds of feats whenever as I VAluE mY timE a lot
  9. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    Hmmm, there's that 'it's too hard' argument again. Sorry, but i'm in total agreement that the other players are generally trash in Omnis, which is why I avoid them. And yeah, if i'm on a toon that can battle tank I might need to decide between sticking it out and just wiping. Fun fact: I've been kicked from Omni runs before because I'm 80% of the way done finishing the fight solo and won't wipe. Most of my toons can't battle role through it (I'm not the one troll army) and even if they could, besides the fact those other 7 have a longer wait, what is the difference for them if I (or you) finish solo vs pre clamp blow it up solo? Also, unless it's very close to the end of the run, it will 100% add more time to that run to solo battle it out....otherwise the clamp is a huge failure, so just roll it back.

    The 'hard' part is the time investment for MOST of the grindy stuff. Again, skill based feats are not that hard except maybe Elite no deaths feats. I never said differently. I know you are going to say "I wasn't directly referring to you" but you are directly replying to me, and I didn't say those feats are too hard, and even pointed out if a clamp option was developed, the 'skill' feats should be left out of the unclamped runs, leaving only the 'grind' ones similar to how the 'event' vs 'normal/elite' works today. Unclamped would be the 'event' like version.

    Or do you also object to people getting feats in 'Event' runs and unclamped/buffed open world? Cause those still exist.
    • Like x 2
  10. Yaiba Committed Player

    Before this stat clamping, I can finish the battle for earth duos in like 2-3min, but now, those runs become 6-7min, thanks devs :)
    • Like x 1
  11. Proxystar #Perception

    Anti clamper allegations are usually two pronged;

    1. they claim content is too hard clamped to obtain skill based feats such as speed feats, no death feats etc, and;
    2. they claim content takes too long and is tedious.

    I addressed the 1st one when I said that I could solo beat the content, if I can still solo most content then that shows quite clearly the content isn't really that difficult it's only difficult when you're either under-equipped, in which case you should worry about feats when you are better equipped, or you lack the actual skill.

    The smoothest runs occur when you have less of the inept players and the fact this is the case demonstrates quite abundantly that it is not the content, it is the players, no matter how much you deny that fact won't make it any less true.

    The irony of course is that the previous system, where players learned absolutely nothing and got easy feats, created those very players in the first place that continue to create the problem.

    Also in terms of content being "long" it really comes down to a definition of "long", previously someone could run FOS3 for example in 5 minutes by themselves, now you can still do it in 5 minutes with a group of players, funnily enough people are complaining about that too, perhaps you want to have your cake and eat it too? (that might be a strawman for actual though lol)

    Point being of course, content isn't really "long" by any objective reasonable definition, it's just "longer" than it was when you could destroy it, while picking your nose and having a three course meal ;)
    • Like x 2
  12. Dry Cleaning Well-Known Player

    still a straw man lol. btw u don't get to decide what other players consider long and tedious or not lmao
    • Like x 3
  13. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    Ur entitled to your own opinion.
  14. Proxystar #Perception

    It simply does not matter when I got the feats, why should it, genuinely?

    Why should someone come along after 11 years and expect to just not have to run something, yet still get the achievement, I mean honestly can't believe I'm even having to argue against that prospect, genuinely I really am flabbergasted that's even an issue.

    You either run the content or you don't but don't expect to get a feat when not running the actual content and undertaking the task.

    I would never in my wildest dreams step foot in to an aged game or MMO and expect to just have an easier ride to things, I would in fact expect a high degree of learning, back tracking and working my way up, I cannot see in any way how an expectation other than that is reasonable - which appears to be what you're suggesting.

    As I said earlier as well there's far better ways to motivate players to run older content you could even increase omnibus rewards for example, throw stabilizers at the end of omnibus runs, throw quarks in there, the options, other than removing the clamp are vast, but everyone seems to think in here the answer is "unclamp" it and make it ridiculously easy that the feats no longer matter and I should be able to destroy the instance in seconds, every other player in there be damned, **** their experience, right?

    You have to remember I was utterly anti clamp in the past, I know your argument I used to run it, again in retrospect, its unhealthy for the longevity of the game to unclamp it, the players learn absolutely nothing, new players continue to be driven away through mindless content that is within their relevancy being destroyed by others and they continue to be trash players until they reach end game and inevitably get kicked when they're still trying to finish relevant content with gag glove and clown box.

    It's also weird, you seem to be against selling feats, because you want people to "run it" but on the other hand are suggesting its harder now because people still have to run it, your position, despite the fact we've agreed you're free to hold it, is absolutely confusing lol :D
  15. Proxystar #Perception

    It's not a strawman, that would be me creating a false premise and then using that to defeat your argument. I've actually done nothing of the sort.

    I've directly addressed your argument, demonstrated that the content

    1. isn't that hard, and;
    2. isn't that long.

    If I can solo beat most content, how can you have a reasonable argument that clamped content is hard?

    If a group can finish paradox in 5 minutes, how can you have a reasonable argument that clamped content is long?

    You're offering very little to this discussion other than making short gaslighting type posts to try and get a rise out of people, you're either here to present something or you're not, but then again I guess you can just call me 'mean' again, I guess. :rolleyes:

    I mean do you have an issue with clamped content other than you think it's too hard or too long? You're right in that I don't get to decide what other players consider long and tedious, but the devs do and they have, by applying the clamp as it currently sits.

    If you were attempting to present some sort of actual argument for further adjustments I have to say, you're doing a terrible job ;)
    • Like x 1
  16. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    Ok im with you, some are easier after relevancy when your OP an some are easier after.
    I dont see why thats an argument in favor of gift wrapping all the feats that do require at least min effort.
    I also dont see whats wrong with people not being able to get some because its not really doable now.
    There aint that many that they wont get and its certainly not enough to keep em crom being decent players.
    Theres feats i will never have be ause i wont do the grind.
    Should they be handed to me because reasons? Of course not, the circumstances dont matter. Im choosing to opt out. Im mot here whining an crying its too hard or takes too much time. I simply opt out by choice or opt i by choice no matter what system the game has in place.
    Why is that so hard for others?
    And to suggest that content isint miles easier even clamped than at relevancy is objectively false.
    If u dont believe me, we can group up an go 3 man dox or prime or whatever you want. And that didnt an couldnt happen at relevancy but we are so OP even clamped it can happen now.
  17. Dry Cleaning Well-Known Player

    bro it's a straw man. yr fake premise is that it's too hard. ppl are telling you that's not it. u keep trying to be the last word on what's too long or not lmao!
    • Like x 3
  18. Proxystar #Perception

    Personally I think you've heard a cool term kicking around on the internet (strawman) and decided you'd use it, English can be cool at times though and strawmen are awesome, albeit potentially a little flammable. :D

    On point though, if I can finish Paradox with a good group clamped in 5 minutes, how much shorter does that have to be to then be acceptable to you?
    • Like x 2
  19. Ryazan Dedicated Player

    So in the end, this thread is just people trying to gatekeep feats while also gating SP behind it. [IMG]

    I sure wish the whole SP system got a revamp, it is my #1 most hated thing in the game. New feats should stop awarding SP altogether and only give styles/titles. Some players don't even care about achievements and just want their characters to get the stats, let the feats and the way of acquiring them remain relevant but instead of gating something essential behind them, put something purely cosmetic there instead.
    • Like x 3
  20. Plowed In Dedicated Player

    So which feats? How many of the total feats are too hard now to achieve (aka- gatekeeping)?
    • Like x 2
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.