W.I.P. Combat Balance - Jump Canceling Solutions

Discussion in 'Concluded' started by Spytle, Mar 3, 2014.

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  1. Yallander Loyal Player

    This wall is too big to climb. Please use paragraphs so my eyes can get a break.
    • Like x 7
  2. Soulwaster1 New Player

    awesome observation! Great wit as well.
    • Like x 1
  3. kajutsu New Player

    Those powers always had time to use charged attack. Best combos always include FB(before nerf) or DW.
    People already find combo to include WM for those comboed power.

    Best players always find a way to be the best. In 3 years, way to play powers always changed.

    Maybe because people that complain about it don't come into forum in order to understand the changes and just guess what it will be with just rumors as you do(look next)

    you will still be able to clip power. Clipping will not disapear.

    For the rest of your message, next dlc will have bigger content(but i agree it's never enought XD)

    The only thing i was scared about, was that fast gameplay disapeared. But charged weapon are really quick now
    • Like x 2
  4. Soulwaster1 New Player

    Great responses kajuttsu. The last point about clipping. I understand that clipping wont end, I'm talking about the minimal 1.0-1.2 animation time that will be enforced. I'm taking that as, you can clip but your still stuck with that 1.0 animation. Is that really clipping?
    • Like x 1
  5. Soulwaster1 New Player

    and as far as the content of amazon fury
    Amazon Fury Part I will be the 10th DLC and will contain solo and small group content.
    The DLC will feature a new Weapon Mastery system that unlocks new combos that flow from one weapon to another. Skill Points will be used to unlock a Weapon Mastery in each weapon tree.
    "Time After Time Again" is an Amazon Fury Part I DLC Feat on the test server that requires the completion of 200 Iconic Anomaly solo instances. This may indicate that the upcoming DLC will have Iconic Anomaly solo challenges similar to Origin Crisis
  6. pyroshade13 Committed Player

    Can someone please explain to me why this change is necessary because it feels like it's trying to fix something that isn't broken. All powers have the ability to jump cancel and those powers who don't use jump canceling don't need it to be efficient because of its overall speed/power(celestial with power and lightning with speed). Other powers can use jump cancel to keep up with something like celestial that doesnt need it and both will end up doing somewhere around the same damage output (assuming gear/sp etc is all the same). The game has been appearing to function properly with it (especially on the ps4).
    • Like x 2
  7. pyroshade13 Committed Player

    I guess my question is what is trying to be accomplished by altering jump canceling in the game?
    • Like x 1
  8. Giggles Loyal Player

    The devs are trying to limit jump canceling from being used as a tool to front load damage. Jump canceling is a variable that currently makes it harder for the devs to properly balance all the power sets. We are discussing possible solutions to fix jump canceling. The devs have confirmed that jump canceling to front load damage is a unintended "loophole".

    Many of us in here want a fix not a band aid. Spy toe said those who jump cancel can potentially put out 2.5x more damage than someone who does not. Which is why I was proposing adding a 1 to 1.2 second delay after jump, and removing the damage and PIs after the jump. This would prevent jump canceling from being used as a tool to front load damage, while still allowing us to use jump canceling to avoid imminent death, and allowing support roles to function as they always have. :)
    • Like x 1
  9. pyroshade13 Committed Player

    so balance is what is trying to be achieved?
  10. pyroshade13 Committed Player

    My issue is that this is the opposite of balance. This is no way shape or form effects something like celestial who does not need to jc but how is earth/fire etc supposed to equal out the damage if they have been made slower and on average hit for less?
  11. Giggles Loyal Player

    Correct. They feel if they fix this jump canceling loophole, they will be better able to balance all power sets against each other. That is why many of us in here are behind the devs 100%.
    • Like x 1
  12. Giggles Loyal Player

    One thing to keep in mind is they are making all animations, 1 to 1.2 seconds going forward. By eliminating jump canceling, they can easily balance the dps potential of all power sets better to ensure all power sets are viable. Jump canceling is just a variable too hard to balance around, and it is a confirmed "loophole" in the combat system.
    • Like x 1
  13. Clutch Committed Player

    It's only being changed to make weapon mastery viable so people who aren't skilled at clipping or just don't like doing it can keep up.
    • Like x 1
  14. Grid Ion Committed Player

    So this is what it has come down to now ? Remove Jump canceling from the game? You finally said it. And why am I not surprised at all. I knew you were going to say it sooner or later :)
  15. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    They aren't removing the ability to Jump Cancel, but they are making it where you can still see the action. The fact you can hide hidden damage simply by jump canceling it does show there needed to be change. Which seems to be something that would cause more problems for PvP than PvE.

    There is no real powerset that will get overly affected by this change, as you can still clip like you used to. The biggest reason for change is readability. You can't defend against something you can't see, which is why T5 gave a lot of problems for PS3 users and PC players with crappy video cards.

    What players should be talking about is the Animation Normalization times. As it will create a bigger impact on powersets than jc. But what do I know, I'm just a lowly player that doesn't have the dexterity to compete with the big boys.
    • Like x 2
  16. Ogat New Player

    That's Giggles beeing giggles, I tell ya the ignore function on this forums is wonderful.
    • Like x 2
  17. Gerbal New Player

    Ok if you understand top tier then you understand how all powers minus electric and quantum can benefit from jc. I know this thread is about jump canceling but my point is you dont gain anything others cant gain. I honestly thought this was going to be about phantom damage but thats not even addressed. I cant even begin to understand these changes and talks about balance when there are things in the game currently that are extremely out of balance and that isnt jc.
    • Like x 3
  18. helvetica New Player

    Not true. Different powersets benefit differently from this broken mechanic. They don't all benefit equally at all and that's why we see the same 3 powersets primarily top the scoreboards. Each of the powersets is built differently with different advantages and disadvantages as a balance factor and because of that this broken mechanic has been used to put awesome advantages into powersets that shouldn't have them (for balance), while other powersets don't or barely benefit from the mechanic. That doesn't even address balance of the content ... That is another goal of this fix. It's not just balancing the powers.
    • Like x 2
  19. Grid Ion Committed Player

    Can't agree more.
    • Like x 1
  20. Gerbal New Player

    So in your ideal of balance is everything is the same? Do all 35% finishers work exactly the same way? Do they all have a initial tick followed by a larger tick all with the same base values? Do you make them all like photon blast with the same base values. Right now the only things being jump canelled are channelled animations such as fear gas, plasmic retch, fan, and 35% finishers. These are the moves that actually benefit from jc.

    Im not sure why some of you are so against faster game play. This is a top end issue. As a new player or someone who doesn't want to clip then thats your choice or your lack of knowledge on why your behind. Right now there is one op power (rage) and then in the hands of a top tier dps you have hl, celestial, gadgets, nature, sorcery, and ice. There are weaker powers out there that with a tweak to maybe one power per powerset would be equal in terms of top end damage. However with the change to weapons you have one op power (rage) then hl, and celestial. The rest are going to be behind until wm comes out and still may be behind.

    To preach balance you have to understand what people are actually doing. You cant talk about in game encounters as a guideline to what power sets are weak or not. We all play in a small view of the overall game. I dont play with every person on the ps server just as others don't. In my setting or my dcuo world view all the dps other then league mates and friends are seriously lacking in knowledge. To them they are the best but in our group they are significantly behind. Is it there power? No. Is it there weapon? Maybe but doubtful. So what is it. Its knowledge and experience. This proposed balance seems to favor those who are bad or lacking knowledge. I just think they're going about it the wrong way. Almost as if they halfway think about things. I put a lot of money into this game and competing at high levels with all power sets. Removing jump canceling doesn't help anyone keep up better.
    • Like x 11
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