USPC Test Scrims

Discussion in 'Battle of the Legends (PvP)' started by ZypherUSPC, Dec 13, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Karasawa Loyal Player

    Power regen is a completely new thing and you already can't imagine life without it? I don't buy that. I've healed with every powerset in both PvE and PvP. Please don't talk to me as if I don't know the difference. Your whole argument is that Nature needs power regen because it's inherently weaker. If that were true it would be weak no matter what game mode you were playing. But that's not true is it? It's a fallacy.
    • Like x 2
  2. Talve Dedicated Player

    And? So have i with exception of Celestial healing in PvE.
    I would not have to imagine my live without power back. In PvE i would still orefer Nature (and often have before and after the power back mechanic). In PvP i would switch to sorcery quicker than i can blink. :>

    Prove me wrong and and heal without Insectoid form on one of the test server scrims. Show me where all that healing is suppose to come from. Show me that huge potential of Nature i'm not seeing anywhere.
    The whole argument is that Nature needs power regen or something that gives exactly the same amount of boost in PvP only.
    Lets look at some numbers.
    8104 restoration. All the numbers are with critical heals excluded.
    Average total healing for Savage growth will be ~2060 (625 power).
    Metabolism will be around ~2020 (802 power).
    Cross Pollination will hit for about 1230 per wave (1123 power).
    Pheromone activations will be ~800 each.
    Blossom will be around ~2450 (802 power).

    Compare it with E-Burst.
    E-Burst ~1600 per every single PI in range (642 power?).
    With only 2 electrified targets around, E-Burst is already outperforming Savage Growth (it's pheromone stack as potential heal included) and there is no need to waste power on your single target heal to activate anything. Now often will you really get 2 man only E-Burst with 5 opponents + possibly their 5 pets around?
    If you have to set up electrified yourself:
    Arc Lightning ~2400 (914 power). 1 Arc can heal single person multiple times, but that's down to RNG of bounces.

    Sorcery?
    Ritualistic Word ~1700 + ~950 HoT for total of ~2650 (642 power)
    1 Ritualistic Word gives Watcher enough power for ~3 Remedies each being ~1050.
    Total from you and Watcher being ~5800 (642 power).
    Shard of Life ~1200 initial heal + ~2050 from the HoT for total of 3250 (802 power). In addition every opponent hit will be affected by Bad Karma (~160 additional healing they do per hit (2 sec inner cooldown)).

    With the current meta where you don't only need burst but efficiency as well, what the hell is nature healer suppose to use to even somewhat keep up?

    Not saying Nature can only be balanced with power back staying. Saying it will be much easier to balance nature healing with power back staying (with some slight adjustments) and it's the easiest way without messing up PvE balance.
    • Like x 3
  3. Karasawa Loyal Player

    And you're still comparing it with Electroburst, which we all agree is overpowered.
    Actually, ya that's kind of what you were saying. Which is why I chimed in. Which is why you changed your stance?
  4. Talve Dedicated Player

    If you take away DPS applying the PI, then I don't think E-Burst + Arc-Lightning combo itself is that much off from Shard/Word/Watcher.
    If they would just change E-Burst so it would activate only off PI effects you applied yourself or change values of the combo itself with making arc better and E-Burst worse, i'dd say it might need only slight additional changes in healing amounts or power costs.
    There is a slight "but". If they plan to do an overall power cost reduction in the future and make everything more spammable, Arc + E-Burst would get off the line (being spammable) compared to Sorcery having to wait for cooldowns on Word/Shard/Circle and having to use Transmutation with rest of the power. Even then Transmutation itself is not that bad (if there would be enough power to spam it multiple time per single PI, which is a little too much to be asked in current balance).

    I can compare nature healing to anything if you want.
    Elec's Bio Surge interaction healing, Electrogenesis, every single ability from the main loadout what Sorcery uses nowadays. Heck, even Galvanize has lower power cost than Cross pollination with healing out being the same (963 vs 1123).
    Nothing nature has will even come close.
    Unless Elec will start spamming Bio Surge with no safety net or Sorcery will start spamming Rejuvenate, Nature in current state without power back will always be left behind.

    I don't see anyone using nature unless:
    *people for what ever reason suddenly decide to split up as far from each other in PvP like they do in PvE so nature could make full advantage of being long ranged compared to everyone else
    *nature gets its own PI heal that scales per target to compete in stacked up groups (would kind a make the whole healing set and its pheromone mechanic useless, unless its somehow combined into the PI mechanic with healing scaling off amount of applied pheromones as well or something).
    *nature gets huge power cost reduction
    *or power back stays with adjustments to VIT

    I have not changed my stance. It's been the same from the beginning.
    *In current balance in PvP healing i find Nature healing completely useless if Power back is not used.
    *I find that the easiest way to balance it is via power back and tuning the amounts until it feels right.
    *I do not deny that there is another way of balancing nature. There is always multiple ways of balancing stuff. From there on it comes down to what is most realistic to happen, easiest to implement and makes the most sense.
  5. Karasawa Loyal Player

    Again, we all agree that Electroburst is the best heal for PvP with no equal. And again, your argument for keeping power regen on Nature is a comparison to Electroburst. It just doesn't make sense.

    The argument for keeping power regen is to keep up with something overpowered.. so if you remove the overpowered ability, then there's no reason to keep power regen. We all agreed that we wanted power regen OUT of Arenas and I don't see a compelling reason to make an exception for Bug Form. Now I'm not losing any sleep over the fact that they re-added power regen for now, but that's not going to change my opinion that it should ultimately be removed some day. Why maintain the current meta when it's an unhealthy meta where people feel they are required to bring a specific powerset just because of one overpowered ability?

    Frankly, this entire meta is terrible for healers. Health pools are ridiculously high in relation to toughness, power pools are ridiculously low in comparison to power costs, and the bread & butter heals of PvE are so ridiculously useless that we're digging deep to find the most efficient heal setups possible even if they don't even heal that much in all honestly. Healing is just not a fun thing to do in PvP anymore.

    I am not going to go out of my way to defend this stupid meta when now is the exact time we should be talking about changes that could be made for the better. There is literally no better time than now to have that conversation.
  6. Talve Dedicated Player

    Huh? How are my arguments based on E-Burst in any way?
    Almost everything sorcery and electricity have is out performing everything nature has when power back in not in effect. How in any way is everything related to E-Burst? Take E-Burst out of the game, power back away from nature and no one sane will say nature healer is strong and stun it in PvP.
  7. Karasawa Loyal Player

    Huh? Where have you not based an argument around PI heals from Electroburst?
    E-burst is overpowered. Nothing should be balanced around it and yet it's all you've talked about in this thread.
    • Like x 2
  8. Nitrac Well-Known Player


    EXPOOOOOOOOSED
    • Like x 4
  9. Talve Dedicated Player

    Taking 2 posts and nothing here has anything to do with E-Burst. Remove E-Burst from the game everything still stands.
    I guess you know more about my posts than i know myself. Sorry. From now on ill send you my username and password and let you post on my behalf.
    • Like x 4
  10. Sir-Ivy Dedicated Player

    Let's not even pretend like power regeneration and power return mechanics belong in PvP. Find balance elsewhere.
    • Like x 1
  11. Soul Dedicated Player

    People like you are the reason these revamps kept failing over the years, and you may be laughing now, but you wont after your attitude and the people who share it, cause this game's community to disappear, and the devs to give up.

    I'm not impressed with your inability to see 2 meters ahead, you're so arrogant and narrow minded its revolting, you're more than welcome to ignore me now.
    • Like x 1
  12. ZypherUSPC Committed Player

    Let's chill out, guys. Everyone's made their point. No need to repeat it over and over.

    I do have a question for any of you or the devs that can confirm. I've heard multiple accounts that the damage mitigation from tanks is either at 33% or 50%. Which one is it actually? In either case, I'm ok with it being reduced by half and no less.

    The scrims last night were not nearly as enjoyable as the 2 DPS setup. The damage mitigation from tanks forces us to constantly hard switch on targets to throw off the mitigation cycle. It's random, and sucks to be honest. We're just tabbing and trying to down targets.

    I think the last match shows how it stalemates with tanks involved. Did you guys record that one? My bad for accidentally DPSing with restoration mods like a derp and wasting the other matches. :p
  13. Soul Dedicated Player

    You still need to decide if you want RPS back before you push that change..

    I suggest you come back to it after Power Consumption has been fixed on a case by case basis, like you offered yourself.
  14. ZypherUSPC Committed Player


    We don't know when/if that's coming, Soul. It's a case by case basis based on what we're seeing on test. The most outstandingly broken things on test right now is tank damage mitigation levels and electroburst's healing potential with PI effects.

    We need to fix these things now, not assume hypothetically that something in the future will result in balance. The intelligent thing to do is fix it now, make the second round adjustments later, and re-balance as necessary. Leaving things as is now does not make sense, and it ruins balance for testing. I see your point completely, but I don't think it's the best route to take as of right now.
    • Like x 4
  15. Sir-Ivy Dedicated Player

    The devs are still focused on damage capacities, what's next is to be determined. It's wasted time to use the test server to check anything but damage at this point.

    Next up sounds like power costs and support role functions.
    • Like x 1
  16. Sir-Ivy Dedicated Player

    Testers are not going to micromanage every minutiae.
  17. Soul Dedicated Player

    Please be patient and stick to damage balancing.
    After the next stage is determined re-address this if you have to, but for now, please put this on the back burner, I'm strongly emphasizing you might regret pushing this change in the near future.

    A little trust wont hurt o:
  18. ZypherUSPC Committed Player

    I've never seen anything fixed in PvP by an addition to something that was broken. That's the history, that's the track record. Everything we're doing now is to repeal the mistakes of old updates. The route you guys seem to want to take is a proven failure. We can agree to disagree though.
  19. Sir-Ivy Dedicated Player

    Proven failure? The ship hasn't even set sail on the new season and you're already calling it a bust?
  20. ZypherUSPC Committed Player


    What? Past PvP updates haven't set sail? o_O
    • Like x 1
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.