There have been some whacky ideas thrown around latley, like make MoT unlock PVP feats etc.. Its like wanting to get an A+ in Math by doing your English homework.. doesn't make sense. If you want the reward, get it the legit way.[/quote] You don't get the point about legit. As long as the game allows it without sanction, it's legit. No single player or group of players decides over stuff being legit - players are customers. So whenever devs would decide to allow MoTs unlock PvP feats: it's legit the very minute the update goes life. Well, now its gonna be sanctioned, so I guess there is a "legit" way. It was clearly unintended else they wouldn't have taken any action about it.. Besides that, I think that ideas are bad as well. Just: if they did implement that, you'd see how many of the 21% are there for the fun they have in PvP and how many players are just around because the feats are hard to them. Just to get clear numbers I'd love to see devs announce it and measure the drop in PvP activities. Then, after 2-4 weeks, they should announce that they decided to not go that way and measure the increase as well. That done, you have the exact numbers about how small the minority of PvPers really is. Whats that got to do with anything? Just because a smaller number of people do it doesn't mean that they have to change anything. There is some very low stat on how many people do solos.. You think they should change the way they award the feats just because a small minority of people do it? You want your 500 solo feats.. then do 500 solos. Same here, you want 25 Star labs wins... then do them PoV-battle. You are making the assumption that all players want to get good at PvP. They don't, but they need the feats/styles for character progression in PvE. That's it. So, assuming that 21% of players are really in for the fun or want to give the best, you face 79% of players dealing with PvP just for the feats - sometimes even in league-organized runs of throwing matches (see the league related responses in this thread). They never get the.... 10x streaks in legendary or arenas in straight 1vs1 queues, they go in 4vs4 or 5vs5 with the best PvPers of their league, hoping to face unorganized PUGs 10 times in a row or have another group of the league queue up and throw the match. They don't "progress" by your definition, but they farm their increased SP out of that approach (including marks for the related style feats). So, would I want a leaderboard in PvP? No. But I'd loved to see what active winning streaks I trashed (8x? 9x even ?) when I manage to get a compeltely unorganized PUG to victory over a league group You are assuming 100% of players want to get feats haha... Players who actually bother about getting their PVP feats get them done (most of them include winning). They get better just to get them... if they don't touch PVP after that so be it. As for leaderboards, I don't mind really.. was just a minor comment. See above. At least 79% of players don't care about that according to your numbers. And the feats are not that hard to get, we agree on this: Button smashing monkeys can get them without learning mechanics. Your PoV refers to players who may want to reach "top" or "good" status within the PvP community or go for FNL one day - a minority. Feats, styles, done -> you can get that as a button smashing monkey. Yeah, you can get the PVP with little effort. Only you can't stand around for most of them.. The argument many are making is "I don't find it fun, let me do an alternative and reward me with the associated feats" Yup, forums all over MMOs are full of those threads. I pointed that out before: MMOs target audiences who don't want to progress themselves, as the person behind the controller as you put it. So, if it's everywhere even by your perception: thanks for proving my point [/quote] Not only for MMOs man, you can apply that everywhere. I never argued that point, like at all. Doesn't mean I have to agree with players complaining when stuff doesn't go their way.. I get it, you are skeptic about how the system will work.. See what happens, then make up your mind.. I know SOE has let you down a million times by the sounds of it (which makes we wonder why you still play one of their games ) but awarding or not awarding players based on their performance (or activness during the instance) isn't a bad call. ps: sorry it took a while to reply, was away all weekend.
Agreed. Never argues that. Not just skeptical. I know "heuristics" is an approach that cannot be 100% correct, it's in the definition of how heuristics work. There will be bad calls. There will not necessarily be messing with the awards of legit players, but that means on the other hand the interpretation of data will let a wide margin of slackers go through with still getting awards as it's - so to say - set to "very soft." That will not get you the improvement you want in the long run as slackers will find out easy how much to do to get along with a reward while still slacking. As I repeatedly said: The Blizzard approach is better. I think I answered that over the weekend already: Their products are priceless field tests regarding how far behind quality, service, sometimes communication with the customers can be while a majority of that customers still considers those products a quality or "good" game Yeah, don't worry bout that lol.
Here is a simple and quick solution for this whole thread : Create a 1vs1 Slacker map and have everyone that doesn't want to actively participate in PvP farm marks there. This way, the rest of the maps will be free of them and hardcore/awesome/fantastic pvpers can have their thing. It is a solution that matches the idea of Blizzard and it could be implemented without any hard work.
Can i get a slacker PvE map where I just stand at the spawn while I gain PvE marks and gear? That way I don't clog up hardcore/awesome/fantastic PvErs running content.
I did too but it's also designed to counter win trading so we're sorta between a rock and a hard place here :/
I've never participated in a win/loss sitchu. Seems good for feats, but I kinda feel like it's - well, not necessarily cheating, but maybe taking advantage of the system. Not as bad as abusing a glitch for feats (you know who you are), but still a little skeevy, imo.
I know. The whole win trading thing is done on 8v8 maps, and farming those is currently the only way to get the feats within a non-ridiculous time span. The whole rewards structure of PvP needs an adjustment. That's something that probably should have come with this feature.
So if I'm doing pvp and due to low pop keep going against the same person over and over again, and losing, if I want to be a jerk I can just log on an acc with a level 30 char(That i don't care about obviouslly) and stand there doing nothing so the other person don't get marks? Cooooool, Also If queue for pvp and 2v2 or 4v4 and get someone on my team I don't like I can't just try to make it seems like the match was thrown and no one gets marks? Cooooooll Also if I queue for a match my pc locks and/or I lose connection, If that happens x times, I can get my acc banned for it? Thats great. And all that because the devs decided to listen to a handfull of hardcore pvp'ers complaining that people don't want to be their punching bag? Thats just keep getting better. Whats next? Those hardcore pvp players complain that they aren't getting a good challenge, and are tired of fighting against people who don't know how to use counters, and then they decide to add a system to check if you did x counters or else no marks and if it happens often a ban? And just out of curiousity, why don't those hardcore pvp players use the scrim option, that THEY asked for so much to get a good fight? why they want us to match their standards of participation? Weird oh well, I'm sure the devs know what they are doing, afterall everything they have done so far was perfect and bug free, and when someone gets banned the support is always very VERY HELPFULL. Sooo EXCITED.
Maybe, but the fact that if someone gets their account banned due to glitches on the new system it will be most likely be gone(if its a permanent ban if not, the person will just stop pvp'ing) still stands. The fact that hardcore pvp'ers asked for scrim option and now instead of using it, Want to force the players that are less skilled than them to keep dying over and over again to them still stands. I personally find no joy in killing the a person that raises no challenge to me in pvp over and over again. A person being banned through multiple players report, fine, a person being banned because of a system that they refuse to tell us how it works, nope sorry. Instead of giving more reason to play 8v8 maps, so we don't have to rely on sync'ed matches and can just queue, they want to stop the sync'ed matches. Instead of baseing the reward of lair battles per round won, they decide to punish everyone, because of a few who were afking, and honestly not hurting anyone, Like I said if you want a fair and challenging match soooo badly theres a scrim option, its great, I spent over 2 hours scriming a friend 1v1'in in temple of isis the other day, it was fun too. And no, I'm not afraid of being banned due to the new system, I won't be dumb enough to pvp during the first weeks of it's release, and when I do pvp no matter if I'm getting stomped or not I keep trying, But that is ME, and I can understand why some would just stop and give up, especially if the person is new to pvp or doesn't understand it.
The reason this is being implemented is because people want rewards without participating in the content. And many people don't want to go back to the horrible elitist option of only giving marks to the winners because it makes it incredibly unfriendly towards new players. Even with this new system in place, this is still a far, far more forgiving system than PvE. So honestly, if people are freaking out over actually now having to play the content, then maybe this game wasn't for them in the first place. If you want a reward, play the damn content and perhaps while you're at it, maybe learn something and improve. As per the bans, that's something that I'm still hoping we get more of a clarification from on the devs part. I stand by my earlier statements of "if they can't tell us what qualifies as participation because people will abuse the system, then it isn't a very good system to begin with". At the very least they need to explain how the bans will work (IE is it automated or does a GM actually need to observe) and how they will monitor the system.
On some content it is true its more forgiving than in PVE, but on most of it, A player can stay and do nothing or very close to it and still get the rewards, hell even on Love and War, I was in a raid about 2 weeks ago, that we had a dps doing as much damage as the troller untill up to the last boss, after we wiped 2-3 times people checked the scorecard and it was brought up and he left himself, we 7 manned it after, hadn't we wiped he could have gotten the rewards doing basically nothing(He was mix of 94/97 gear). As for people freaking out over playing the content, Just look at how easy the raids are,most people don't like failing in order to learn on this game, if they queue for pvp and get beaten over and over again on a single match where they see they have no chance they will quit/afk and with the new system in place, probably just stop pvping altogether afraid of a ban,while you might be okay with longer queues in order to have a fair match, theres people like me who just want to queue and play to get marks, and without those people queues will take longer. And just as a side note I have played against you, and got beaten pretty by 600 or more points in batcaves 2v2, I didn't quit, I'm just afraid this system will make queue for pvp take longer, I still need marks and still need feats, in order for a queue to pop to even have a ****** up match with someone afking or a fair close match, there has to be players queueing, and if they are afraid of a ban or not getting anything at all because a system didn't think they did enough to earn it they won't queue at all. Honestly there should be no account bans at all, at least not due to this system, if you and me and others report "TheAfkGuy" for afk'ing then sure go ahead and ban, but sorry, this is DCUO, I have yet to see a system that works flawless, and when you add to that, the fact that the support for when you get banned its a joke,(Take a look at the support section), Things get pretty damn scare(Unless its something to do with money, if you got banned because your credit card company ****** up and canceled the payment, they will give you ALL the support and details possible so you can pay them to get your acc back.) Like I said I won't be pvp'ing during the first week of this system, I know it takes more than one match tagged as "Afk" to be banned, But they didn't say if your historic gets wiped after a certain time, or if it keeps building up, Honestly this will bring more trouble than it actually fixes IMO.
In PvE you can kick someone and grab someone else at really no cost other than a little bit of time to find a replacement. In PvP, that's not exactly an option. I don't trust SOE to handle anything involving account bans properly which is why I want some form of very clear and transparent communication on exactly how they plan on handling this. I completely respect that you continued to fight even though you were losing. That's one of the best ways to improve yourself, but people who want rewards for not playing content, be it PvP or PvE, really shouldn't be playing online games as they're effecting other people's experiences.
Saw all 4 teams on the log.... Must have been an exhilarating FNL watching 4 teams throwing down the ruler. What a wonderful turnout for the PvP community.
Thats USPC side of arenas... The USPS one had a really good one (Arena wise) Legends always has good numbers, just depends on the server Just gotta see how it works out man, we'll find out when the update goes live. Until then it remains to be seen, Bit curious what did Blizzard do? Are you one of those that still considers the product to be quality? xD (srry if its too personal ^^ )
Blizzard implemented something wherein rage quitters fight against other rage quitters. While hysterical I don't think that's the best approach as it divides the community and rage quitting isn't the issue here. It's people wanting rewards for doing nothing.
Yeah people rarley rage quit, they just stand around instead lol If they made afkers fight afkers that be interesting... they gotta somehow identify them (new slacker detection system? xD ) thx for the info
Are eu guys on PS going to start coming over to participate in tournies? I've already seen a few people come over, but it would be fun to see more competition.
