Trailblazing Guide to Fire

Discussion in 'Oracle’s Database (Guides)' started by Soulburn32, Feb 16, 2013.

  1. Lugo Well-Known Player

    Is this health buff hidden? My health in DPS stance is 33k . Switch to tank, 50k. This is with 0 SPs in health.

    With 160 SPs in health, it gets to 59k.

    So how extreme is this 9k difference when I have basic enemies, not even sub-bosses, hitting me for thousands and thousands and thousands? At the end of the day I've taken 4million damage and healed maybe a quarter of that. I'm just not sold on this health conspiracy.

    L T sold out to BIG HEALTH and I won't fall for the propaganda!
    • Like x 1
  2. Juiceman936 Well-Known Player

    Given my artifacts are up. I have tried and tested different specs also. Earlier in these threads and the tank vs tank thread I also agreed that health was the way to go BUT now I'm not so sure.

    High health without proper healing back only keeps you alive a little bit longer as the adds will continue to slice through your high health like warm butter. Fire tanks get the health buff so along with my artifacts, I took this to be my health pool. I put 30 sp into my health to get another 5%. I'm still sitting at 121k health. Before I chose to switch my spec I had 225sp into my health and I had 142k health. I'm down 20k health which is equal to about 3 hits from one add in end game content but my Dom now is a lil over 18k base and resto is 12k base and I feel stronger.

    I also see alot of fire tanks run with 2 shields, immolation and hard light shield this is not the way to go. Like I said earlier I don't even run with a shield. If you wanna tank with shields go ice. Fire tanks heal health back. We don't absorb damage we heal. With my current sp spec my heals are larger and my emergency heal is backdraft clipped with burn out. This clip restores 60% of my health asap. Place the accelerated burnout in your back to speed up the CD.

    My artifacts are dilustel 160, manacles 160, and legionarre 131. 427 skill points

  3. DeitySupreme Committed Player

    Something doesn’t add up with your numbers. If you used to 210 token that means you have 85sp. 21 points automatically go to even unlocking the 3rd row. Assuming you only put 1 point in flight thats 22. Not even sure about your weapon let’s just low ball it and say 3sp just to unlock a combo. That leaves you with only 60 sp. did you unlock sp to increase it to 100 spare?

    For fire tanks your best stat is health. Than dom and resto. Fire does not have a hidden mechanic that benefits from dominance. All dom and resto do is power ups your self heal a bit. Fire tanks boost their health just by being fire.
  4. Lugo Well-Known Player

    Wait do you get an additional 85 SPs? Ok that explains a lot.

    I have 180 something SPs altogether. There are 160 in health, 0 in Dom and resto. 59k health.

    So, again, why is that 9k health vital? I usually stuck to speccing resto and dom to boost my heals as much as I can. I know there's no hidden dom buff, I was asking if there was a hidden health buff because this isn't adding up to me either. Where is this 82k supposed to be?
  5. DeitySupreme Committed Player

    The 210 token starts you off at 85 sp I believe so that’s what I thought you had to work with.

    How many sp do you have in crit healing chance and crit healing magnitude? That way I tend to recommend my league/friends to spec is as follows:

    After unlocking all weapon/movement/iconics wanted your specs go as:
    1 point in hybrid
    20 points in crit healing chance
    20 points in health
    20 points in dom
    20 points in resto
    This gives you the innate 4% buff. (Between 0-20 you get 1% innate buff every 5 points)
    Get health to 60 (between 21-60 you get 1% extra innate buff every 10 points)
    Depending on group memebers and play style you’ll either go one of 2 way. Either get health to 100 or start increasing your self heals. Personally I increase my health to 100 so:
    Get health to 100 (between 61-100 you only get 1% extra innate buff every 20 points now)
    Put 40 points in crit healing magnitude
    Increase dom and resto 10 points at a time until you get to 60 starting with dom. So:
    Get dom to 30
    Get resto to 30
    Get dom to 40
    Get resto to 40
    Get dom to 50
    Get resto to 50
    Get dom to 60
    Get resto to 60
    Max out health.
    If you feel squishy and you run with a good healer than max health out before increases dom and resto up above 20. Another side note is that if you feel to power hungry than increase might/power up to 20 before increases dom and resto above 20. You should have an issue with a decent troll.
  6. Lugo Well-Known Player

    But why put anything at all into health? No one can answer this question it seems. You only get a few thousand more health, so maybe you can last an extra millisecond?

    I have nothing in dom or resto, 10 in each healing crit. I went with the minimum on the healing crits so I could get as many of my SPs into health as I could and I only saw an increase of 9k health from 160 SPs.

    So again, why put anything into health? My healing is more effective against damage than 9k health. In my opinion, fire is just weak and dated. Maybe health was useful before? Health is a weak stat to base your playstyle off of, none of us can get enough of it. And we never will when these enemies are pouring out millions of damage on us. 9k health? For what?
  7. DeitySupreme Committed Player

    I believe a few people already said why. And something seems wrong with your numbers. I get more than that by putting 160 into health. Please double check that you are in tank stance.

    You put more skill points into health because it gives you more EHP. Yes you can put them into resto it dom but your healing doesn’t jump up as much as you make it seem. You fire benefit is that you health automatically gets increased by 50% whether you block or not. There is literal a mathematical breakdown of this in the 1st page of the tank vs tank guide. If you’re looking for a more basic breakdown or simpler explanation than I don’t know how to simplify it any more.

    Putting your points into health will give you more EHP than putting them into resto or dom for heals.
    Higher health pool with sp in health > higher self heals from points in dom and resto
  8. DeitySupreme Committed Player

    Just reread what i wrote and it sounded snarky which was not my intention FYI. I’m actually asking if you want a more simple break down than someone else could help you here. But health for fire is the main stat.
  9. Lugo Well-Known Player

    But nobody said why from what I can see. Or at least no one can tell me why 9k is so important. OK so this is what I'm getting from all of this.

    Health is most important.

    160 SPs into health only gives me 9k extra health, why is that important.

    Because health is most important to fire tanks.

    160 SPs into health only gives me 9k extra health, why is that important.
    Because health is most important to fire tanks.
    Am I in tank stance? I get aggro, my heals are.. decent. I have my tank loadout, I see my tank emblem. When I look at my health it's almost 60k instead of 30kish. And I only mentioned my heals earlier because at least with the self heals I could keep using them to heal back millions in health. Just 59k health is just 59k health. And I still don't see how a few thousand more benefits my EHP overall. I looked at the tank vs tank thread and all it told me was to block, and I really don't have any other choices in stressful situations lol, so thanks I guess?
    Also, you don't have to worry about sounding snarky or not I am genuinely lost and confused, and if you all spoke to me in the simplest of ways it would probably save a lot of time. I just am not getting it.
    stop the BIG HEALTH propaganda
  10. L T Loyal Player

    The rumors that Big Health is paying me replay badges every month... Frankly I find it insulting. There's no collusion going on here
    It's just a witch hunt!
    • Like x 1
  11. Darth Piper Dedicated Player

    I just went back and read some of your stuff. What you are saying is that you are a CR 210 fire tank with about 160 SP... that right there is a significant source of your problem. Fire tanking is difficult at best when you are under water like that (SP less than CR). It’s not a panacea and it will not fix all of your problems, but will give you a better base from which to work.

    You also have not told us what augments, artifacts, and mods you are running, and what level your augments and artifacts are. These things can make a big difference with your survivability.

    Fire tanks work via self heals. If you can’t withstand the hit in the first place there will be nothing left to heal.
  12. DeitySupreme Committed Player

    You’re trolling me right now right? Someone is gonna pop out with a camera aren’t they?

    I said that there is a very detailed breakdown showing why health is best for fire tanks in the tank vs tank guide. If you don’t want to go and see it for yourself than there is no point in anyone helping you. If you don’t want to spec into health because you feel more comfortable specing into something else than go for it. No one here is forcing you to spec health. We just know it’s the way to go because of our experience.
  13. TheNumber 2 Well-Known Player

    Do you run a SC at all? If not, what do you run in the free slot?
    I imagine you loadout consists of BackDraft, BD, SF, Burnout, Engulf, ?
  14. Lugo Well-Known Player

    I saw this very detailed breakdown, and like I said, it didn't show me why health is best for fire, it just showed me that blocking is best for fire. The gist of it just was, "your heals suck and your shield sucks. But if you block, you'll probably survive." From reading that fire section, I don't get "spec health" from that. In fact, it seems like you guys prioritize a few thousand health because you don't see any other options?

    I'm at 180 something SPs with 160 in health. OK, so let's go with your argument that I don't have enough SPs and that's why my health isn't decent. The max you can invest into that health stat is 175, right? So then are you implying that the "SIGNIFICANT source"of my problems is.. 15 skill-points? Someone did some numbers - oh, the infallible, the all-knowing, the ever-divine numbers - in an earlier post. The guy claimed that with my 160 SPs into my health and 50k base health, I should end up with just over 82k health. However, I'm at 59k health. Huh.. ? B-but the numbers? Wait, maybe that SIGNIFICANT 23k health I'm missing is in that last 15 skill-points, yes?

    And as to why I didn't mention my artifacts or augments or mods, it's because I am new to those things. I just got back into DC after maybe a year? 6 months? So the last time I really played, people were still using the regular gear mods. And 160 SPs wasn't a SIGNIFICANT problem. Also, the last time I really played, people were surviving fine without augments, artifacts, or mods. Tell me why they make a big difference now?

    But if it is that SIGNIFICANT then I'll tell you. I think I have one dom augment at like 170 something? 172? But it's only that high because of some free stuff I got in a box or something a while ago. I boosted some augments and left for some months. Then I have two level 24 dom augments, and a 100+ might augment because the weak dom augment wouldn't have at all. OK, so let's figure out this big difference to my survivability. If I had 4 dom augments at level 217, I'd get 629 additional health from each one. Well, gee, that's an extra 2.5k health dropped in the bucket. So if I added that to my base health of umm.. 50k? I'd be at 52.5k health!!!! Unbelievable, truly, outstanding. That big difference would surely give me an extra millisecond of time against one basic endgame add. Thanks. OK, let's max out our precious health at 175 SPs - assuming one day I'll finally get that SIGNIFICANT 15 more SPs - and I get an additional (I think) 1.2k health from the SPs I invested. 54.5k!!!! Plus the, what, 10% buff? Oh, gee, 60k health.

    let me just say that im no math-surgeon so idk what im doing sorry if this makes things even more confusing

    So I'm missing around 1,000 points of health because, well, I guess I'm just a noob? And, somehow, with the millions of damage I take on the regular, this 1,000 extra health is the SIGNIFICANT, big difference I'd need to turn the tides? Or maybe in that 1,000 health is that mystery 23,000 health the other guy mentioned.

    Is there any way I could get you guys to show me another fire tank, their base health, and then their health after maxing out the health stat? I want to believe.
  15. TheNumber 2 Well-Known Player

    225 to max out the Health stat.
  16. DeitySupreme Committed Player

    I’m sorry but I’ve kept answering your question multiple times.

    You keep saying that you take millions and millions of damage so the extra health is pointless. I’m sorry but you are completely wrong. You do NOT take millions and millions of damage at a time. If that were the case than no specs will help at all.

    Your choices to spec into are health, dominance, and resto. That’s it. Vit might and precision will not help your survivability. So those are the only stats that can help your

    Health increases you max health
    Resto boosts your shields and self heals
    Dominance will boost your shields and self heals. For being a tank your dominance is doubled which means that dominance is better than resto for you.

    Most tanks have a hidden mechanic that works off dominance.
    Earth get extra defense based on 40% of your dom.
    Atomic gets healed based on a percent of your dom.
    Rage gets extra health up to a max of 100% of your dom.
    Fire and ice do not have a special mechanic that works from dom as far as I know. The only benefit they have is that ice has stronger shields and fire has stronger self heals.

    So now, with that being said look at the 2 ways to spec. High health or higher self heals.
    Typically you will run both pulls. One sets things on fire and is a range pull, the other gives you a nice burst of heal and is an aoe pull. Now you should also run pheromone bloom which gives you a great burst heal and stuns all adds around you. Most people run either 2 shields and a heal or 1 shield and 2 heals. A few use just 3 heals. No matter how you look at it you will run 5 abilities that scale with resto and dom. So it would make sense to run with some resto. However since you have a healer in your runs you won’t always be healing yourself and the extra resto won’t boost you up by that much. The fire boost for extra healing in only works when you aren’t blocking. However fire has no way to mitigate damage so if you never block you will be a burden to the healer. The fire health buff stays active even if you block. Also, by being fire every point in the health gets increased by 50%. For resto and dom only a persantage if that gets turned into extra heals.

    So the fact that you keep claiming that you take millions and millions of damage shows that you are very misinformed. And btw, most fire tanks prioritize health but also put points into resto and dom too so that they can get the innate percent buffs. After the percent buffs every fire tank player knows that health is better. All of this could have Been easily tested by you. LT even showed the numbers to back this up.

    The same argument you made about only getting a few more thousand health can be said about resto and dom. You only get a little extra healing. You take millions and millions of damage at time so that little healing is useless.... I’m not gonna respond to you again on this matter. If you’re not happy with the answer than go ask someone else
  17. Juiceman936 Well-Known Player

    Yes and I run reignition SC. I used to run eternal flame but health get low and I died becuz you have to get hit to get healed. Sometimes I would still die after I pop eternal flame.
  18. TheNumber 2 Well-Known Player

    Same on eternal flame for me. Before revamp, it was a great SC if a healer goes down
  19. Mr. Awesome Well-Known Player

    I actually run two shields and 2 Heal Over Times. Basically, my rotation is pop backdraft and clip with shield and HoT. I then watch as my health recovers from the Burst Heal and HoT while inside the shield. Then once the shield is dead I pop backdraft again and clip it with my second shield and second HoT power. I rinse and repeat. It's very turtle-ly but I like it for fire. I very rarely if ever die in content but then again, I'm too casually to run elites. Don't even have a league.

    So you guys are saying a supercharge plus eye of gemini would be far better?
  20. DeitySupreme Committed Player

    I would highly recommend running with pheromone bloom and eye of Gemini. Fire has a healing in boost so pheromone bloom heals you for a large amount. Eye if Gemini heals you 3% of your max health. Fire has the highest health pull so that’s a large amount. I say keep backdraft ok cooldown for he burst heal and it’s only a 3 second cooldown. Stoke flame is a good power to keep on cooldown because it also sets things on fire near you. But you can also use it actively as needed
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