Too many updates?

Ok, so I was at work, and well....it's a slow day, so my brain decided to go for a walk, and while it wandered, it realized that weeks ago, i went back to play DDO (I know i bring that game a lot but it's a mmo i liked a lot), the thing is, after 10 years, it just launched it's 31st update.

That's a 10 year old game, double than DCUO and it's had almost half of the updates.

Of course, every update comes with a ton of content, skills, class updates, rebirths and whatnot.

My point as for DCUO is:

Do you guys think monthly was a misake and that probably DCUO's mistake could be too many updates and focusing on quantity over quality?

And do you think maybe slower but richer updates would be better for the game's health?

I mean, we are already hitting GU 60, we get monthly content, but i think most of us can agree that what we are getting doesn't hold a candle to the content we used to have before.

It occured to me that maybe, going back to a quarter update or maybe even twice a year would benefit DCUO greatly PROVIDED content is good for the time it takes the next GU to arrive or at least most of it, i.e. in DDO there are few ways to speed your progress, and even when you do, it will still take you a while to get to end game.

One of the reasons given for the monthly format was to prevent players from playing a couple of weeks and dissapearing until the third month for the new update, but really, it all reamained the same except faster, people farm it all in a couple of days and dissapear the rest of the month...but i digress, my questions were the ones above, here it is again so the cellphone readers wont have to scroll back up:

Do you guys think monthly was a misake and that probably DCUO's mistake could be too many updates and focusing on quantity over quality?

And do you think maybe slower but richer updates would be better for the game's health?

Anyway, let me read your oppinions! keep it respectful, keep in mind this is an opinions thread so there's no war to be won here

Hi, Yes I think too many updates.
It has all been about turning a fast profit.

We have returning seasonals.
I wish the team would take 6+months to develop these things in large dlc packages and release FREE filler content in between these cycles.

Example would be A story based on Anti Monitor. They have a HUGE DLC based on this character, but they give us two or 3 tie in missions in the interim for free.

The speed of content release has definitely hurt quality especially since content gear is the top way to progress . OUR CR has jumped 50 levels in only one year... Insanity .

I sense legal matters eventually heading DBC or Columbus Novas way things just have not been settling well with me lately about dcuo. The BvS and supergirl stuff is definitely alarming to say the least. I think someone goofed up on the licensing of certain products. Too many bad business moves have come since breaking away from Sony. I pray that my fears are not realized. The fate of our WORLD hangs in the balance.

I think expecting completely undeveloped and wholly new content to be developed month to month to be outstanding is silly. I think that even 3 months of fresh work is hard to make and have it be acceptable. With everything from WoTL1 onwards the team had years of concepts to work with. ATM, they do not afford themselves that same time, which leaves plenty more room for error.

We should never expect quality monthly content, however we should expect quality yearly or half a year content. If they created 2 DLCs a year and gave us inbetween filler FREE of cost missions I could see a lot of HAPPY gamers.

First off I apologize for taking a rather well thought out post and snipped it down to what I consider the problem part.

That being said though of course gamers would be happy if their were only two dlcs a year and all the rest were free content. At the point most if not all folks would just stay premium and than the game would lose money.

I do think that were stuck between and a rock place on this one but giving out free content isn't going to be the answer because the devs only have a leg to stand on to ask for more resources if they are making money and they can't really make money off of free content.

I think what you say has a lot of merit and deserves consideration.

60 Game Updates does seem like a lot. However many of them were more or less just bug fixes. Many of them have seemed rushed. There is a test server. Many people run content on it. Some of us just test on it. But things don't tend to stay on the test server all that long. GU47 was on test for what seemed like a week, and then got dumped onto live bugs and all. So yeah, I'd definitely favor a slower development cycle. Most of the time, it's better to be right than fast.

I definitely feel that the way monthly content was handled is a mistake. If you consider that a Tier is traditionally 10-15CR, we're now 1/3 way through Tier 9. CR is skyrocketing way too fast, and the game is losing a lot of its appeal as a result. I don't want to race through content... but I want to be able to do end-game content at CR while it's still hard. I can't do that anymore, and the grind kind of stinks. Also, I like the way the DLCs used to be a chapter in a story. Now they seem more like unrelated instances to run.

Still, I'm guessing that the reason for the change is revenue and cash flow. From a business perspective, it's WAY better to get a steady, smaller stream of revenue than to get a big burst every 3 months. With that in mind, I think they're unlikely to go back.

Is not Legends free? I am not saying free raids, or even alerts, but just tie in solo content or legends content even something as simple as they did with t4 duos. That was all pre-existing stuff. They have given us SEVERAL free seasonal missions that are very simple. Why could we not get similar but permanent things without using excess resources. It does not have to even effect progression either. SM is practically free lol.

One more thing. i think the biggest issue they created started with RB in a tiered system. 5 years of gearing up and we are on tier 8 as of June. I never really appreciated the tiered system tbh. Many of my leaguemates had concerns about the tiers in 2012 and 4 years later here we are with CR differential and rapid CR/stat gaining, the thing we feared most. When honestly you set yourself up by creating a system that only giving enemies a huge CR gap to deal insane damage to you is not good longterm. Gearing in T3 was at its best IMO, yea it took months to get a full set but it was worth it. With all these great pieces of old content just wasted away so fast, it is hard to keep going and expecting a turn around. To think you can solo RAIDS and alerts less than 8 months after their release on almost all powers and even sooner with Atomic.

The Monthly content has at the very least put as strain on the Devs team.

In the past new DLC would come out every 3 months...... which would make the game pretty unstable for a bit.... and the Devs would struggle for the next few days or the next week after release to fix the issues.


Now.... they have to do that every month. Which means EXTRA work for them in the end.

But it also means a steady stream of $$$ every month instead of every 3 months like before.

Also previously....... if they made a Green Lantern DLC...... that would mean that for 3 months all you got was Green Lantern content.
If you like Green Lantern.... no problem.
But if you don't like Green Lantern.....

Also if a piece of content is poorly received...... pretty hard to course correct with a 3 month DLC.

But with content every month...... they can vary their content more.
And if a bit of content is a stinker...... they can course correct pretty quickly.

For example...... when they planned HoP 1, 2 and 3 as 3 month DLCs....... if HoP 1 is a stinker..... they are stuck with another 6 months of HoP content to release.

But if the Flash Museum is a stinker..... they just don't do anymore Flash Museum content.
And if it's a hit....... very easy for them to add more of it in the monthly format.

So I guess you need to take the good with the bad.

As for the Licensing Stuff..... it is not that simple.

There are a lot of parties involved, Daybreak, DC, Warner, CW, CBS, the Berlanti production team..... heck maybe even Melissa Benoist herself since the Legend TV Supergirl character is based on her likeness.

And each party is not just ONE person.
Daybreak has a bunch of executives who probably all want to have a say in how things are done.
DC has a bunch of executives who all want to have a say....
Warner has a bunch of......
Well.... you get the idea.

Each parties has a small army of executives and producers who all want to have a say in how things are done.... and they all have their own agenda to push.

So getting ALL those people to agree with is a colossal task.
Believe me.... I had to do that a few times.
Not easy to get all them people to agree on something.
Not easy to make all them people happy.
And NOT easy to keep them happy.

So as soon as anything goes wrong..... or as soon as someone changes their mind...... or if their own agenda changes for some reason.....
very easy for any one of them parties to pull the plug on any previously agreed on deal for often NO good reason.

So having things like the TV Supergirl skin in game.... or the BvS Emblems in game was a risky thing to begin with.

Not sure why...... instead of giving us the BvS Emblems...... why not give us the Comics Emblems??
That would remove at least some of the parties involved??

Although it could be that DC are dead set against us using Comics Emblems??
It could be that Daybreak managed to convince Warner to use the BvS Emblems and Posters as a promo tool for the upcoming movie at the time?? Now that he movie is behind us.... Warner may not feel they need the "promo" anymore???

Without more info.... we don't really know what went wrong.

I know the business. I went to school for BM, I know business law and practice it daily.
I never said that it was definitely DBC fault but my fear that it is especially with everything going on atm.
My thoughts are presumptuous, that is it. It is merely my gut instinct that makes me think the issue is on DGC/CN especially since their partners requested the removal. I would most likely guess WB wants to renegotiate especially if someone at DGC has not covered their butts on the MP items. Again, presumptuous at best. Remember also WB/DC comics has had issues with other things as well. Perhaps using NEW TV and Movie emblems ignore dealing with things like the Siegel estate issue.

Yeah, I'm pretty convinced that Melissa Benoist is behind it all, I don't know how yet, but she is.

That said, pretty good points, though i agree monthly income seems better, I wonder how long will it be sustainable, considering the drop on quality and the speed at which we are losing players, both newbie and 5 year veterans
Not blaming it on the devs though, I to think this monthly content has them working at full speed, and rushed things can rarely be done right but yeah, as you said, there are several parties here and changing the format would require a lot of cattle herding

Well, we have to consider what is contained in our updates in order to really compare them simply by number.

I mean, in all honesty, when was the last "update" that was really an "update"? An update to me means game changing or improvments.

So not that many Our "updates" are more "patches" than anything.


As for the Monthly content? Like most other ideas in this game, monthly content doesn't mesh well with other aspects such as: Content Relevancy & Single Mark System or the mess that is RNG based loot.

Too many things in this game don't go well together and have created chaos.

Forgive me, didn't read the whole thread nor the whole OP post.

DCUO when launched promised an update regularly. Usually around once a month ish. When it went free to play, they split updates (free) with DLCs (paid). They promised quarterly DLCs and semi regular updates still. Never fully got that until 2014. Which we got the 4 big DLCs and a lot of updates. Now we have monthly DLCs and updates. It's not much different.

Also, I think a lot of people are misinterpreting all the new content, fixes, and undoings as all being updates. Though it is correct in that it is updating the system, but DLCs and updates are fundamentally different since it's free vs paid. They are also removing stuff they changed that was a complete bomb. Like differential and map rotation.

And numbering systems also make a difference too. I play warframe and they do a decimal update system. 18.10.1.1 kind of nonsense. Lol

It's pretty clear she is behind it all. She probably still has some residual effects from the Red Kryptonite episode.

As for the monthly update..... pretty sure it is here to stay.
But they will have to do something.......
maybe hire more Devs and increase the size of their team???
But probably not.

It's not really about the quantity or the frequency, at least not directly.

The real problem is that in order to achieve a monthly turn around of content the DLC has to conform to a very rigid structure, this has in effect been to the detriment of the game as a whole - more raids, alerts, duo, solo..are less additions or expansions rather they are simply variants on a theme. Content that actually adds to the game or offered us choices and variety in how we play (ie expanded it) has suffered significantly or else been entirely absent as a direct result.

We need content that occupies us beyond just standing in queues, we need things to do beyond just waiting to repeat the same 20-30minutes of content every xxx hours, we need greater identity and customisations to make our time more fun, more personal, and we need content that delivers us into the DC universe with a greater sense than any raid/alert/duo/solo has proven itself capable to date. The game needs to expand and evolve if it is to compete and hold its player-base. At present it is restrained in a holding pattern of diminishing returns, the problem is not that we aren't getting content but instead that we aren't getting anything genuinely new.

If you cut out every update that was for a power then that number would be under 30.

Not to mention its been a case of 30 steps forward then 30 back.

This.

I am concerned as well about the license snafus and increasing the potential of the marketplace to take pressure off the need for replay badge sales. This is still my favorite game and want to see it thrive (player since 2013)

I said monthly content was a bad idea back then before the first of those updates hit the test servers even. I don't see anything that proved me wrong by now and it looks like May 2016 may be the first month when Daybreak couldn't make the monthly schedule even.

- monthly updates bind manpower that could be used better in fixing content instead of generating new content
- monthly updates killed the longevity of content even more
- monthly updates cut deeper into the online time of servers and thus devalue what you get for your subscription in online time

On top of that, it just created very few instances that are actually fun playing. Worst decision ever made for DCUO.

I though it was a case of 30 steps forward and 52 steps backward??
Damm Calculator...... always lying to me.

Ha!!!