Today is a happy day for DC fans and comic book fans... Zack Snyder's Justice League

It’s funny how you say the Martha moment is hard to grasp because I just read a review from RogerEbert.com and he’s saying Snyder was ramming the Martha moment down the viewers throat. It said it was very obvious that Batman and Supermans mothers had the same name and Snyder didn’t need to keep referring back to the two moms through out the movie to make his point. Ultimately the review says there is enough mythic raw material sunk deep into the film to make it a classic but he feels it’s a missed opportunity overall. This just shows the difficulty of film making because I get it and I’m glad I was reminded throughout that Batman’s moms name was Martha or I probably would have forgot. You want nuance in a film without spelling everything out like remember in Star Wars ROS Anakin is like “but from my point of view the Jedi are evil” I think everyone everywhere understood that’s what Anakin thought, it didn’t need to be spelled out for us, and spelling it out hurt the film some. So Snyder is juggling how much He needs to spell out this and how much does he let it speak without spelling it out. I do understand getting pulled out of the film can be frustrating, that’s how I felt about Aflecks chin, I could not stop seeing Ben Afleck because of it, but that wasn’t a fault of Aflecks acting or Snyder’s film. It was just something benign that drew me out of it at times. I think the comedy can be distracting with films with a serious tone but that’s likely the studio wanting more comedy in it to be more like Marvel. So now we get to see his vision of a film with Justice League, with no studio interference, we can see if he lives up to the hype or if it was the studios decisions that were saving him.

Not really excited for something that is only going to be offered on one outlet that not everyone is willing to pay for.

That's another problem he'll be facing, though: not so much the hype but the expectations after so much hype and press about it.

For me, one of the biggest obstacles facing any Star Wars project has been unrealistic fan expectations. More than a few fans were upset with both the prequel AND sequel trilogies not because they were necessarily bad movies (granted there are some moments and movies in there that are better than others) but because they didn't live up to what those fans expected them to be. They weren't judged as much on what they were but what some fans wanted/expected them to be.

Snyder's now facing that. There's been a constant droning on/drumbeat for the mythic Snyder cut for years now, and it's well within the realm of possibility that after that much time and that much hyping of it, there's no way it's going to live up to whatever expectations have been built up inside some fans' heads. And if some parts of nerd culture has shown anything about itself, it's that it will immediately turn around and absolutely savage something that doesn't live up to their expectations, even if what they were expecting was never explicitly promised. So in that regard I do wish Snyder luck, he'll need it.

Still isn't gonna be enough to make me want to watch it though. LOL

I agree this hype is gonna be problematic. I’m sure die hard fans will love it but people on the fence will be difficult to impress. Mainly because I think all of his great action scenes are in the Whedon version too. Snyder really excels at masterful action scenes and without additional action people are going to be disappointed. Honestly the main reason I want the Snyder cut released was in the hopes of getting the rest of his vision made also. I want him to finish his 5 movie arch so we can have an established DC universe already. You have all these directors wanting to recon the whole damn thing and I think that would be a huge mistake. I will pre warn you though if his movies get made big superhero’s are dying in them, however it ends with a flashpoint moment which brings people back. With the apparent release of the Suicide Squad Ayer cut getting released too I think there is a real possibility of Snyder getting to make his other films. I think the Suicide Squad movie Ayer cut is suppose to tie in to the whole Darkseid plot and have a lot more joker. This needs to happen to save DC. If you start a re continuity but try to keep Wonder Woman and Aquaman it’s just gonna add to the confusion of the people not following this stuff and they aren’t going to like it. Marvel used the infinity stones as an underlying story to help connect each character for a final goal. DC is trying to do that but with Darkseid. If they don’t stick with it may be another 20 years before we ever get a DC cinematic universe.

This just in...

https://www.ign.com/articles/justic...l-cost-more-than-30-million-says-hbo-max-boss

As surprising as it is, it wasn't the fact that it's probably going to cost MORE than 30 million (that's gotta be raising some eyebrows of an exec or two somewhere lol) that stood out to me, it was this line.

Greenblatt described the Snyder Cut as "a radical rethinking of that movie" and "complicated and wildly expensive.

Unfortunately that's ambiguous enough to mean a lot of things, including that it might not be his original vision.

Yeah I read this the other day. Big surprise where this is coming from, the head of WB. They didn’t want to release the Snyder Cut, it was mainly an AT&T push so WB had to. Like I posted before the WB guys are pretty much psychopaths for how they treated Snyder. They don’t want his movie to do well because it will just prove what idiots they are. They forked over 100s of millions to Whedon to do reshoots just to have the movie bomb because of it. So if Snyder’s version is a hit they will look like the biggest ********* on the planet for essentially paying to have their own movie flop. So naturally Greenblatt is out there saying it’s totally different and it’s going to cost way more than 30 million or else he’ll lose face. It seems like everyone is preparing these excuses to try and save face. Sounds like it’s gonna be an undeniable hit. Haters gonna hate though.

If the Justice League MOVIE was meant to jump start DC Cinematic Universe then how ever much it costs or however "Complicated" it is should NOT matter.....

Did Marvel Cinematic Universe care about COSTS with THEIR movies? They pulled out ALL the stops...CARED about their crafts, their product....and NOW they have a series of movies that will stand forever as classics.

DC? With the exception of MAYBE four movies - are WILDLY behind. Don't believe ME? Just ask those hardcore fans that BEGGED for The Snyder Cut.

One of those movies (Joker) isn't even CONNECTED to the DC Cinematic Universe. But wait!

It made Warner Bros MONEY.............

If they care about WINNING then they'll let Snyder do his thing.

Greenblatt needs to pee or get off the pot. Go read some comics.

I don't really think WB can be accused of not caring about winning. After all, they brought the director of the first two Avengers films on board to help finish JL in the wake of the tragedy the Snyder family faced and secured the director of the Guardians of the Galaxy films to do the second Suicide Squad film. They know where to go to try and get the results they're after.

As for Snyder, he had two solid opportunities to show he could do it. He was able to do his thing on MoS and BvS. BvS ended up being highly divisive among fans (otherwise we wouldn't be having these kinds of conversations lol) and MoS? It came out the same summer as Guardians of the Galaxy, and I remember being amusedly mystified that a movie involving a talking raccoon and a tree creature with a four word vocabulary absolutely knocked it out of the park while a film featuring THE standard for hero characters, well, didn't.

Finally watched your moviebob review and it was pretty bad. Apparently he can’t figure out what an Act of a movie is. His first flaw was comparing BvS to Avengers, they are not even close to the same structure or purpose of films. Avengers already has a large ensemble of characters that have all had solo movies to develop their own characters which enables Whedon to just get to the plot and action without having to develop any characters which he doesn’t, even new ones like Hawkeye. BvS on the other hand only brings in Superman and his supporting characters but has to introduce a swarm of other characters in order to pave the way for the next movie. I’ve heard a comparison before that I agree with and I would compare BvS to Iron Man 2. They are both movies that are used to help develop a larger universe which means they suffer from having to give back story and develop characters before you can even get to the meat of the movie. I actually liked Iron Man 2 i think it gets a bad wrap. Favreau was trying to develop Tony more and made him less likable because he’s bringing the character down to earth, possibly even going to address Tony’s alcoholism like in the comics if given the chance. Anyway I’m not going to go too in depth but this guy doesn’t even know how to see similarities in different movies to make a proper comparison.

All Marvel movies have a huge advantage over WB because Disney owns most of the critics. You don’t believe me just look at the reviews of the Star Wars sequels opening weekend. They all had like 5 Star reviews just like all the Marvel movies. Those movies did not deserve the praise they got. Where as WB suffered from the opposite effect of Disney paying to give negative reviews. So the notion that you should dislike a movie because people say it’s bad is a horrible argument. It’s a cut throat industry worth billions and they play to win. WB got gun shy after green lantern flopped and they desperately wanted to get their cinematic universe off the ground. MOS was solid it made 600 million and got pretty good reviews so it was a good place for them to start again. Now though with the success of WW and Aquaman they can’t just retcon the whole thing like after green lantern, they have to push through and make it happen. Look Marvel is great but DC is inherently darker and some of their movies have to have a darker tone or you’re not going to be able to pull this off. WB recognized the darker tone of Synders films and saw some people didn’t like that and tried to make it more lighthearted and funny which can make it feel out of place or macabre. Comedy is tricky and if Marvel isn’t careful no one is gonna take their movies serious anymore. Look at Deadpool 2 it was a giant joke fest, I mean it was funny but the story really suffered at the expense of all the jokes. You can’t build anything structure wise from that. WB has done well with more serious tone of movies like Joker and Nolan Batman’s so they should stick with that tone. Not saying they can’t have humorous movies like Shazam and there’s probably some funny things they can do in the next Suicide Squad but right now it’s too touch and go to play that kind of risk in your main plot arch. Let Snyder finish and you will start to see DC giving Marvel a run for their money especially now Marvel is screwed trying to hand the reins off to Brie Lawson to carry the universe, good luck with that.

Overall, I guess I'm optimistic for the DC Cinematic Universe, BUT -

Let Snyder do HIS THING.

Let Ava Duvernay do HER thing. Yes she is new, but I believe in giving her a fair shot. I believe she won't disappoint with the New Gods.

Whomever was involved with Wonder Woman, Shazam! and Aquaman? KEEP THEM, as well. WW2 is looking good, as well.



I bet Spider Man's webbing can't swing from lightning. Try it and he's a barbequed Spider.

Hated to see Ben Affleck go but I'm believing Rob Pattinson will do well.

Thought Justice League was decent...thought it deserved BETTER than the Rotten Tomatoes score it got....I'm guessing The Snyder Cut will shed EVEN MORE light on things.

LET THESE folks DEVELOP these characters - like MARVEL did. Leave them ALONE to do their thing.

I'm partial towards DC and optimistic they'll continue the upswing.

This....this is hilarious. So you think the reason a bad movie does bad or a good movie does good is because of the critics? I personally could care less what a critic says as they will often push their own agendas in their opinions. So how do you rationalize the success of the Transformer movies and Fast and Furious franchises? Those movies are largely panned by critics but make great bank. That's because most people who will see those movies will see them regardless of the reviews. I will see almost any superhero and (unfortunately) any Star Wars movie as I am a fan of the genre. Even with reviews on BvS and JL being bad (some really bad) I saw it and took my kids to see them both. They were bad on their own, not cause some critic said it was bad. Lines like "Martha!? Why did you say that name" both point to terrible writing in the movie AND in 30's/40's comics that 2 of the main characters in the DC comics mom's had the same name. Now...is it as stupid as 'The Last Jedi"s 'hey, if we keep flying along in this straight line, the bad guys won't catch us ever, but we will run out of GAS eventually' No...not quite, but it's on par.

The critique video pointed out the main issue with the BvS and even JL movies. They were there just to build the background for or to build the teams...the stories were secondary and mostly nonsense. The Marvel larger world building was done as a background to the movie. This is also why Wonder Woman was a good DC film, cause it was done to tell a good (up till the last fight at least) story and build the character of WW up...it was not done solely to feed into the larger universe's story. By the time we got to Avengers 1, we knew the characters and backgrounds and had some love for them, regardless of what happened in the previous movies so when all those characters came together as a group we really enjoyed it.

Maybe it would have been better to have a Batfleck Batman movie, an Ezra miller flash movie the Aquaman movie first...then do JL. As it stood most people didn't care about them (ok the ladies like Mamoa's aquaman), so you had to heavily rely on the movie story to make a good film...and that was also lacking...big time. And this isn't even going into the whole fact that the special effects looked like something you could do on your home pc (I've seen better bad guys on Power rangers than Steppenwolf).

No the guy I was responding to was saying it was bad because a critic said it was bad and posted the critic. I was just pointing out that critics have agendas and he should point out flaws he saw in the movie instead of repeating said critic. Most of the argument centered around BvS we never got to JL which definitely has major problems. That’s why everyone wanted the Snyder cut JL.

No, the movie is bad because it's a bad movie. I didn't need a critic to tell me that. Far more often than not, when I take the time to see a film in theaters (man that seems like ages ago now LOL) that movie is going to end up in my video collection. It happens pretty much without fail once the movie hits home video.

BvS is NOT in my collection. Nor is JL. BvS left a bad enough taste for me that it's never really been a serious thought of adding it to my collection, even when it came to being a cheap purchase around the holidays (Black Friday doorbusters and the like) and the trailers for JL that were put out before Snyder had to step away from the film felt like he was just doubling down on all the things that hadn't worked in BvS. BvS and JL aren't in my collection for the very same reason Highlander 2: The Quickening isn't in my collection: I don't think they're good movies.

And now I shudder at remembering Highlander 2. It's pretty infamous for me because it's the ONLY movie I ever regretted using one of my free rentals on when I was working at a video rental store.

As for my references to moviebob? I like his videos, I agreed with his critique and he managed to articulate what I was feeling about the film pretty darned well. You don't necessarily have to agree with him, but if you look at the movies he's done Really That Good videos about as well as his reviews in general you can see he does know his stuff. And with his deep dives into films like with the Really That Good/Really That Bad or GEM (Good Enough Movies) videos, he does his homework. It's the reason why those particular videos aren't more prominent, they tend to take him a while to do because he does dig in and do the work necessary to explore them.

Finally I think it'd be more accurate to say that a group wanted the Snyder Cut rather than everyone wanted to see it. It's never come across to me as a huge groundswell of voices wanting that cut as much as one VERY vocal group of fans. If the demand for that cut was as huge as some make it out to be, it wouldn't have taken this long to see it come to fruition, nor the amount of badgering that it seemed to take.

Sorry....thought you were talking about the 'critics' like actual critics who review movies for a living....Nah, that dude on youtube is a troll...he did make some real points though, but anyone who bases their movie opinions on some youtube reviewer needs to have their head examined for sure. And yeah, comparing BvS to Avengers is not a good comparison....now BvS to Civil War....thats a lot closer. on the one hand you have BvS's motivation for MURDERING one another...which is either Batman's "He's pretty powerful, so I'd better kill him....but in a second I might change my mind over the smallest thing....like his mom's name" Or Supe's, "Well my mom was kidnapped and this rich freak wants me to kill Batman or he'll kill her. If only I could use some ability like super speed, super hearing or vision or anything to find her right quick?...welp, gotta go fight Batman but NEVER tell him that the reason I'm doing it is because my mom is kidnapped...well, till I'm almost dead. Luckilly after we realize we have this in common, we'll be best buds and instead of me having to find my mom, this guy who was trying to murder me can instead use his contacts to find her and very slowly release her before she can be executed.

OR....We have Civil War's premise....A group of heros have been getting away with doing as they please and caused a crapton of damage. Some of the heros agree they need oversight that the govenment wants to impose rules on them (yeah...I know far fetched premise, right? The government would NEVER want to stick their noses into something like that). Some of the heros submit and others object, so the ones who agree are tasked with ARRESTING the others. Fights ensue culminating in a fight between the 2 factor lead characters and at a point where one could actually take the other out...he stops because, well because he probably thinks killing someone over a disagreement is not worth it. And the other guy never even mentions his mom's name.

Which one seems more plausable? Better written even? Not even saying it matters really, they are different movies each having to stand on their own. Civil war (and most of the marvel movies) do a better job of it in general. I just like to think that the makers of BvS went and watched it in the theatre....then went and saw Civil War when it released (I think BvS was first)...and left out saying 'crap...why can't we do THAT?'

And yeah, I'm going to watch the Snyder cut...and hope for the best. The CGI at least can be improved in post, and i'd guess there is a good amount of stuff on the cutting floor they can paste back in. Not sure how they would re-film the actors as a few are out of the franchise now, but I guess they could lean into WW and Aquaman as they are still under contract for their own movies but I doubt you'll get any additional new footage anyway, so there will only be so much they can do.

Snyder said Whedon only used 1/4 of what he shot the rest was all reshoots. Snyder apparently has almost 4 hours of film. They are saying that they might just make it into a 6 hour/ episode series on hbo max. I know he’s putting back in his original cgi and with an additional 2 hours I think he’s adding in Martian manhunter and Atom that he envisioned but never made it to film.