Time and Space - The Quantum Guide

Discussion in 'Oracle’s Database (Guides)' started by Solarstar, May 8, 2013.

  1. JEEBIE Steadfast Player

    I'll test myself, troll role or dps? I can tell you I'm hitting for 1500+ sometimes in alerts with it, but thats as a dps.
  2. BrotherMutant New Player

    Which troller power do you give up to slot in the -heal debuff when needed?
  3. TK PUSHA Dedicated Player

    no i'm talking with Zero damage modifiers---base damage. so dps Or troll, just no setup.
    i literally just spent about an hour trying to figure out what i'm missing, lol.

    the only thing i think i noticed was when i used it at 'point blank', like in a melee weapon combo clip, it seemed to do more damage... but not that much more.
    next time i get on i'll check it out on real npcs not the dummy as well.

    regardless if anyone can get over 500 base damage (no crit) without any dps modifiers i'd be very surprised.
  4. BrotherMutant New Player

    The Event Horizon is a Power over time move like WoP/SD, but instead of healing you, it gives you and team bubbles as well as the PoT.
  5. JEEBIE Steadfast Player

    dont' think you will get over 500 base damage with any power without setting up the PI for it.

    avg base damage without PI = 24
    Avg with PI = 34
    Might 2200
    Modifier = 1+[(might*.45)/100], so my modifier = 10.9

    Avg w/o PI = 261
    avg w/ pi = 370

    Add 50% mod (spamming it), and 7% defense debuff and Core Strength = 67% total making it 617damage. Make it a crit multiplying by 2.15 and it's 1328. Like i said originally 1200+ is what I usually see, the 1500+ were with trinket uses.

    Just went in troller stance to remove the 50% modifier. I still have core strength though. It was just a quick test so not a full range but i saw 280-320 for avg of 300. Divide by 1.1 to remove the core strength addition and it's 272. so not far off of the theoretical value and that theoretical might be slightly off, i don't think anyone has done the full base damage testing to say exactly I was just assuming these as they are pretty standard.

    Quick test with PI was 360-450, so about 400 avg, or 33 base, so probably just limited testing being the reason it's low. Devs did confirm that my limited testing showing that they were slightly off was incorrect, and I trust them to know better than I when they can see the numbers and I have to do it like 200 times to get the actual min/max values etc.
  6. DarthSizzle Dedicated Player

    Just wondering what dps's suggestion to run when playing with a quantum troller? I ask because I see trollers using singularity and gravity well two of our dot powers.
  7. JEEBIE Steadfast Player

    Just wanted to add the theoretical max I should ever see is 2086.

    Base Might = 2229 + CC trinket = 2572
    Modifier = 12.574
    60% modifier from tachyon
    50% modifier from supply drop
    7% from defense debuff
    10% from core strength.
    total modifier = 127% or *2.27

    Assuming 34 base damage

    12.574*34 * 2.27 = 970 non crit. and then 970*2.15 = 2086

    Just kinda did this to show that it should be able to hit BIG lol
  8. JEEBIE Steadfast Player

    My new loadout is: Gwell-Warped reality- qt - Tachyon - Gbomb - Oblivion

    I took singularity out actually, as I can just spam gbomb, singularity is nice but you lose the dots if the enemy moves away where gbomb does close to the same total damage but it's instantly. Still need to do more testing though as I've noticed Gbomb can be dodged, it's a projectile at the location of the enemy when cast, so if the enemy changes location by far enough he avoids damage. Not sure if singularity works the same, I do know the DOT is based around the ball that forms at the location of the target though.

    Trollers using gwell... if they refuse to remove it from their loadout so it doesn't overlap with the dps, boot em. I've never kicked someone from a group, but that'd just be stupid to overlap the dps on this move. It's purely a CC move for trollers, a very nice one, but they have so many other options. Of course you could always swap out Gwell with Singularity which is something I've considered. Or not even getting Gwell and going the other day and getting alcubierre wave to set up AE PI faster, problem with that is it's not a very long range PI setup have to be closer in there.

    So those are my current thoughts on quantum dps for space tree based, I still haven't really tried much in the time tree. The fact that it doesn't have any good PI setups turned me off from it, except for tachyon which uses multiple PIs and gives the 60% mod.
  9. TK PUSHA Dedicated Player

    yeah, dps possible #s yata yata, lol.;)

    all i'm seeing is the lowest hitting troller power from either mental or quatum by a long shot, which is a bummer since its the healing debuff that consistently works. anamoly is still pretty hinky as far as ive seen, just like it was shown on test to be.

    just to compare the "low end" / average troller #s-- with the same gear i had last week Horrific Vis would hit for around 125 for me. Grav bomb is averaging about 85..... yikes.

    anyway, , im pretty sure if i ever decide to "competitive" pvp again i won't be able to hack it with quantum.
    not that things might not be tweaked or other advantages discovered, but for my playstyle in arenas i just dont see suceeding very well.
    It basically reminds me of Lightning users in arenas, where most the powers damage translates to multiple and not single target damage.

    one thing i think would put it best in perspective--and possibly prove my intuition wrong-- would be to compare grav bomb with the Gadgets healing debuff. sorry if im recalling incorrectly since i havent played gadgets in ages but isnt its healing debuff a very similar move?

    Regardless, ive never been big on weapon buffs for Trolling, but i might have to put in Warped reality to pvp just for the extra single target damage.

    the real issue for me isnt just Grav BOMB but the fact out of all SIX debuff powers not a single one has "good" single target unmodified/un-pi'd damage for trolling>>>to compare from what i'm used to at least:
    thought bubble, pyro, terrorize (even tho lower than they used to be) were still hitting between 400-1000 for me--
    with the same gear all six of the quantum debuffs are hitting between 75-325.
    chalk it up to single target vs mutiple i guess.o_O
  10. DarthSizzle Dedicated Player

    Ty on your response, your load out is the exact load out I'm using and loving it. As for singularity I agree with you 100% and Gbomb is awesome. What I notice about gbomb is it goes off in the spot or enemy you target if the the enemy moves if he's not in that area he won't get the damage but he might get polarize PI put on him( not sure) which is still awesome for t.blast.

    I'm not a fan of the time tree because of the same reasons you gave and I hope they maybe increase the range on those PI powers. Others wise your force to be melee and at this point not a good idea to do dps wise. Ty again on your response.
  11. JEEBIE Steadfast Player

    I've wondered how Einstein ray works in pvp, is the uppercut blockable? is it even worth it? Honestly I gave up on pvp completely after GU25, as far as i'm concerned the devs killed it.

    And I do agree. Bubble burstin in pvp is great, and over time both TB and Pyro do more single target damage than the comparable burst powers PS/PF, and Pyro can even match the burst if they are helpless/dazed. I have no doubt that gadget/mental will feel a bit better for damage in pvp as gadget doesn't need PIs really, and mental has many powers that do well without them or are awesome and set them up (yay tendrils, and the helpless PI in general).

    As for hitting below 100, never seen anything close to that. As i posted above what you quoted, i was seeing things exactly how I expected, ~24 base damage, 34ish with PI. To hit for 75 even assuming the avg24 base is actually a 18-30 base (likely the lowest low they'd do, although my testing showed 20 as the lowest low I got), you'd need 703 might. At 1900 might you should be hitting for ~171-286. With the 1400 might you posted int he first post it should be at least ~131-219.

    now I am making some assumptions as i don't care to hit gbomb and record the number 200 times to get full data but I can tell you that my testing shows taht it's around the same damage as Phantom flames/psychic shock.

    One thing also, when testing i was seeing the damage in the pop up numbers and the thing was getting hurt but I didn't always see it in the combat log, was weird.
    • Like x 1
  12. Tesseract Prime Dedicated Player

    I haven't seen pve content that needs a heal debuff, but it would be warped reality/alc wave that I would switch (I consider that slot my "variable" slot, if I want a pull that's the one I want).
  13. dr strangeonline Loyal Player


    Hey TK, I've played all the controller roles, Gadgets was my longest... Napalm Grenade is the move your thinking of. The animation is the same and it causes knock down as well. Napalm also adds a DOT(is a 50%er) as well. In my opinion something should be done to G Bomb at least make the lowest base a little higher. With my Might at 1100(in troll stance) I got a initial burst hit between 180 and 400 roughly with naplam and the burning DOT, it did split between adds tho. I'd like to add cryo foam hit for a little less(not much) also split and rooted adds.

    With Mental Pyro was fairly similar with the encasement breaker. I never noticed my damage with Horrific V but i'm sure it was higher than 80. I haven't been hitting as low as you are and am wondering if it doesn't split and thats why the damage is so low. I have noticed the damage is lower but my average has been(in troll stance) 160-340 when it lands.
    • Like x 1
  14. TK PUSHA Dedicated Player

    k, 2 things to respond 2:

    1. i defnitely saw einstein ray and thought to myself--- the devs were making this for pvp.
    though what the devs idea of pvp is and what pvp actually is for competitive gamers are 2 completely different things as we all know, lol.
    i actually sucked up my pride and tried it out in that lair duel i mentioned before. i think my quantum opponet was using it as well, but neither of us really could find much time to use it seemingly.
    the cool part is that it actually did seem to work when the enemy player didnt resist the initial control.
    as far as blocking, im not sure.
    really the best part about it might be that the damage off the uppercut is precision based, which is how im usually modded for arenas.
    bottom line___ pretty much a gimmick, but might be alot of fun to play with if you arent concerned about winning, lol.

    2. getting back to your take on G-Bombs #s.
    i think your calculations are actually correct after reading the highlighted portion of your post.
    those were almost Exactly the #s i was seeing when i would clip a melee combo point blank with the power.
    SO, i guess it really is about positioning, targeting, or as the other poster mentioned if the target moves it doesnt get the damage.
    the problem though would be i was testing this on a stationary dummy and no matter what if i wasnt at point blank range i could not get the full damage.
    again, i might have been missing something like damage splitting on some piece of furniture in my lair, lol, which DOES happen but i thought i was tracking.

    sorry to go on about G Bomb.
    TBH Gbomb specifically isnt where im concerned most, but overall alot of the single target damage just doesnt seem to be quite up to par. though from the dpses ive talked to the power doesnt lack in overall damage, so i guess its just might have to compensate for the aoe stuff being so good.
    i'd be curious to hear some input from any serious arena dpsers that have gone quantum and how they feel about quantum's single target dps in arenas and what they're using.


    thanks if you read all that, heh.
    i'm out for today, but glad i got to bounce some stuff off ya'll.
    its getting into the little things that makes me appreciate a power more.
    Peace.:cool:
  15. JEEBIE Steadfast Player

    Aye, I actually like quantum dps a little more than mental dps for PVE, but for pvp.... so many mental moves have a bit more than standard, and these just don't seem to.
    • Like x 3
  16. Twisted Titan Committed Player

    So does that mean if you are using event horizon instead of WoP/SD then you should spec even more into Dom? I wasn't really doing that before as I didn't feel the need. With that, how much Dom should you spec into? (min/max)
  17. thoughtpatern New Player

    im liking singularity for the CC because it will do the initial pull to the center then it stuns them. and it feels like the aoe is a bit larger than g bomb
  18. thoughtpatern New Player

    maybe in head and shoulders put dom vit mods, but if you are doing t5 stuff your dom should be 800 give or take with very few dom innates taken. added in with the resto, thats a great shield.

    personally i dont think speccing anymore into dom will help all that much, as even if you got 100 extra thru mods and innates, thats only going to be an extra 200 damage shielded. which in t5 isnt all that much.

    but every little bit helps right? hehe. maybe in the yellow slots you could mix a vit dom or two if you use pure vits, or trade off a vit /pre/might for a vit dom if you really want to extend that shielding.

    all about a trade off damage mitigation, damage, or power return
  19. Diastima Theos New Player

    Singularity is absolutely amazing in PVP and PVE. Especially the defense debuff and cc, helps with dps when they're rooted and debuffed. Quantum Tunneling has saved me many times in the game, whether if it was pvp or pve. Especially group pvp when they are focused on me. I just teleport and they're faced with either finding me first or fight others. Nonetheless, it'll waste time on their end.

    I chose G. Field over T. Burst at first but then I read how it stuns 2 at a time if they're close and after using it. It seems to work much better than G. Field. And I find Event Horizon way better than Words of Power in terms of usefulness and reliability. If you're doing a good job of providing power and being careful, using time bubble for instance during a raid or party, you wouldn't really need the heal that much, so it's a lot better knowing you can protect the entire team than just protecting yourself. If you can protect everyone, that'll include the healer and it'll provide power for them to heal everyone during the time everyone's shielded.
    • Like x 1
  20. BrotherMutant New Player

    Maybe not, but that extends to any shield you use (maybe even the damage resist from teleport?) AND its a team buff so if all 8 raid members get the shield, you just saved the healer from healing potentially another 1600 health. Not too shabby. How do the Resto vs Dom recipes compare? If Resto is twice as big as Dom, then either works;if its greater than Double the Dom, then Resto is better for bubs, just make sure you have all the Dom you need first.