Tier scaling instead of CR scaling

There's no point trying to reason with the unreasonble.

1st it's all the testers fault, and now testers do nothing.

You guys kept saying that you guys don't do anything, that what you do don't actually make a difference. I gave you guys too much credit, but you guys seem to think you all are worthless.

No, you suggested we could revert or countermand changes that the Devs have settled on already. We can't. We can point out bugs and potential issues, which can produce changes. That was done with GU 47, as I already stated.

The consensus on live atm is that this system makes a mockery of SP, mods, and stats in general. Yet the consensus on test was that this system is a god send. What happened in between?

I honestly believe that the testers do make a difference. As you said, you guys "soften the blow" of sweeping gameplay changes that the devs like to do every 3 months.

I don't think every tester loved the change either. Testers just realized that the change was inevitable and attempted to make changes to get the best of it, while embracing it as the Devs were not going to change their minds.

I can only explain the same thing so many times. If you or others can't understand or accept the explanation, I can no longer help. The people who hate the changes hated them on test. The people who thought they were good changes on test still do. Personally, I feel the changes are mostly very good, but there are some lingering issues, like pet scaling and scattered errors in gear stat adjustments.

They almost never listen to feedback we give based on our opinions of the content, combat system, etc. They only respond to bugs we point out, if that (they were told about the Throne glitch weeks ahead of time). Furthermore, the "testers" are just people that log on tp play the new content. They are under no obligation to report feedback, stop bad things from happening, etc. When the devs decide to go in a direction for loot, stat scaling, etc. their minds are already made up. In fact, it's more likely that things will change once they go live and the entire community ******* about something they don't like.

Will Sp matter within your Tier? Like T7 vsT7 in a raid when it come to dmg?

For toons that have similar CR, modding, SP, and skill will differentiate. That's not accounting for powerset imbalances, though.

Thanks 4 ur answer. I know Sp don't matter 4 most but I will still be feat farming for SP just to be safe

Most people haven't truly seen the impact of this GU on dmg since they haven't dpsed HH as a dps under 118 cr, but by all means try out dpsing a 120+ dps in HH with a cr under 118. No matter how much skill you have you will be doubled if not more in damage out. This update made dps even less about skill and made huge discrepancies and imbalances in the game that were clearly not present pre GU47. If the devs keep following this trend, soon enough a baby will even be able to out dps you by pressing random buttons if he has higher cr. Cant be shocked though considering they want to boost replay sales, it is a day breaking game after all.

Oh and to add on, maybe this is the devs intentions to have ppl fully geared to finish future raids? So they can claim they are "difficult" and "challenging", something this game has strayed far far away from.

I have seen all the "this update will kill the game", I never imagined it to be true, but this update, yeah, im done with it.

I am not familiar with Daybreak games, but if this is the future they have penned for this game, they wont last long.

Got linked to this topic and couldn't be bothered to read other than the title, but I support any alternative to the current mess up. It can't be any worse. I absolutely despise legends PvE, but at this point whole PvE side being exactly like legends PvE would be preferable.

And since I'm here: it's unbelieveable anyone would think this was a good idea. Seriously who came up with this crap? Oh hey, we got these stats here, why not make them mostly irrelevant? GOOD IDEA! Mods? Sure, let's make some of those irrelevant too. Let's base damage and other crap on something completely random like, let's say some random value which is drawn from item levels, not stats, because **** stats.

At the end of the day I don't care enough to resub. Heck a DLC drops and I"m like I'm going to give you just 10 dollars for the DLC. God forbid if future content don't have solos or duos I will have no way to get into the next content. I'm still playing AoD to finish up the gear from there so I can at least get into the WW raids so I can see where it all ends. The only problem is I don't like raids if there were some other way to play to the end I'd love it to be all 4 mans. Queuing a 4 man is easy queuing an 8 man is very hard.

But again, you are still wrong overall. Yes a 120+ dps will out dps a 118 or lower, because they are fighting 120 enemies(I believe). That said, if a 120 dps were to vs a 122+ (same difference in cr), then the 120's skill and SP will make a massive difference, because they will both be equal to or greater than the enemies they are fighting. This is what none of you are understanding, and this is what makes your arguments pointless.

Basically, when you are weaker than the enemy, CR is going to make a massive impact on your damage. When you are equal to or stronger than the enemy, CR will lose its relevancy unless you are a full tier or more above the enemy. At this point, stats and skill take over, and even a lower CR player can out dps a higher CR player, as long as they are both equal to or above the enemy NPC's CR.

Comparison for you guys, not based on exact % but it will do.

ENEMY NPC CR = 120

Player CR = 117
Player damage = 25%

Player CR = 118
Player damage = 50%

Player CR = 119
Player damage = 75%

Player CR = 120
Player damage = 100%

Player CR = 121
Player damage = 100%

Player CR = 122
Player damage = 100%

Player CR = 123
Player damage = 100%

Player CR = 124
Player damage = 100%

Player CR = 125
Player damage = 100%

Player CR = 126
Player damage = 100%

So now you see the issue with all of your arguments. YES, if you are UNDER the CR of the enemy, you do LESS damage because of your CR. If you are AT the CR of the enemy, or ABOVE the CR of the enemy, you are doing the exact same damage as everyone else that is AT or ABOVE the enemy CR, except for stat/skill/power differences.

This only changes when you are a FULL tier above the enemy, in which you will start to do increased damage on said enemy vs someone that is within the tier of the enemy.

Once you are as strong or stronger than the NPC, STATS and SKILL mean more than CR.

Right now CR for dmg output is more important than actual skill or stats. Dont believe me? Go out dps a guy in a t7raid with low cr, wont happen since you will only crit for 8k tops if even that. Prior to this update stats>cr, you probably arent a good dps if you dont see the issue with GU47.


EDIT: To make it simpler CR is more important in doing damage out than your stats, why even have stats mhm?

You don't understand it. Sorry that you cannot comprehend the issue after I have explained it 5 times in this post. CR is more important than stats... ONLY... until you are at LEAST as strong as the enemy. In t6, I can out damage a 121 dps, I have, as a 115 dps. The reason? We were both fighting 115 enemies, so it came down to stats and skills. With current stat progression, a 121 does not have a significant gain over a 115 in stats, so it came down to skill, and I won.

Now, if I'm 115 and he is 121 and the enemy is 120, he will easily win because he is doing 100% of his damage against the enemy while I am doing about 25-50% of my damage against the enemy. If we are in t7 content, fighting a 120 enemy but I am 120 against a 126 dps, it comes down to stats and skills.

This is what you are not understanding. YES, I understand that when I am LOWER CR than the enemies in PVE content, I am having my damage nerfed against those enemies. I also understand that a player with EQUAL to, or GREATER than the enemy, will not have his damage nerfed against those enemies. If we are BOTH equal to or greater than the enemy, but one is 5 CR higher than the other, then it is a stat/skill game, not a CR competition.

Example:
The way T7 works CURRENTLY is this when fighting CR 120 enemies.

Player CR:
CR 111-119 = Reduced damage (this is where CR matters)
CR 120-126 = Normal damage (this is where Stats/Skill matters)
T8 (150+ CR?) = Increased damage (this is where CR will matter again against those same enemies)

So you see, stats and skill do matter, and will matter for a long time against those enemies.

Applying this to the end of T6:
Lab/HoH: cr 115 enemies

Player CR:
CR 105-115 = Reduced damage (CR matters more)
CR 115-126 = Normal damage (Stats/Skill matters more)
End of T7 (cr149?) = Increased damage (CR matters again)

Obviously we do not know what CR t7 will end at and t8 will begin, but this example should be simple enough to understand. Once you are at least as strong as the enemies in the content you are playing, stats matter more until you are a FULL TIER above the enemies. When you reach a full tier above the enemies, CR will begin to matter more than stats and skill again, but at this point stats should clearly be much better anyway.

Full tier takes into account where in the tier you are as well. Meaning, the beginning of t7 is a full tier above the beginning of t6. The middle of t7 will be a full tier above the middle of t6. Lastly, the end of t7, is when we will be considered a full tier above the end of t6(HoH/Lab/Throne).

That said, the only time that CR matters more than Skill and Stats is when you are a lower CR than the PVE enemies, or a FULL tier above the PVE enemies. The massive gap(20-30 CR) between these two points is where Skill and Stats will reign king over CR.