This new update is a nightmare (clamping)

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Civil, Aug 26, 2021.

  1. Proxystar #Perception

    How else do you force people to get better Reinheld? Honest answer really? The environment prior to this certainly wasn't doing it.

    The reality is, if people are going to blind queue then their experience is going to be random and their choices will be to either get better at what they're doing, teach other players if they're stuck in there and do know what they're doing, or leave.

    Some times people are just going to be confronted with having to leave and that's the nature of pugging, until a larger majority of the community develop the necessary skill sets.

    It will come with time and it might take some time, but it does happen.

    I would encourage people to learn how to properly support role, because the reality is your experience in pugged content tends to spin around the quality of the tank or healer, if those two roles are really bad then your experience is more likely to be bad.

    It's sink or swim Reinheld, it really is, I don't say "git gud" to be mean, I say it because it's the reality, if you're going to PUG then you need to be prepared to play more optimally and more diversely i.e. not just be a DPS, because if the necessity arises, you're going to have to deal with it.

    If you want more flexibility then I really CANNOT understate the importance of joining a league where things are generally way more fluid and forgiving because the people in the leagues can easily, usually compensate for someone who wants to just play around a little and still get content done.

    Gone are the days of lone wolving, if you're lone wolving then your experience is going to be that much more difficult.
    • Like x 2
  2. MsTickle Fate Devoted Player

    I'd drop about three zeros from that. Which makes it still very unlikely they'll dramatically change things, and certainly they wouldn't do so any time remotely soon.

    But you and I and others have been here long enough to see some Absolutely Firm declarations eventually be reversed.

    Remember how we used to have currencies for each tier. Then separate currencies were done away with. Then they were reinstated, but only for the three most recent tiers. Which was effectively a 180 turn.

    Then there's the coming and going of the great AM revolution that didn't turn out so well. And so on.

    Remember this?

    -- Mepps, Apr 9, 2015

    Not the only time a dev said such. Yes, of course plans change. I'm not saying this meant "we won't ever do stat clamping of older content."

    I'm just saying that today's plans are equally subject to possible change at some point in the future. That is all.

    But, sure, nobody should expect a dramatic rollback any time soon. And if rollbacks come, they'll likely be in stages.
    • Like x 1
  3. BaelinFishman Well-Known Player

    Proxy, you know as well as I do that teaching doesn't help with anything. Both you, I and many other vets have tried, tried, tried, and failed and the brick wall has the collective blood from our heads to prove it (from us banging our heads on it). In my travels I've found that reaching out and teaching pugs is a lost cause, HOWEVER if they ask for least that shows they want to get better/learn.
    • Like x 1
  4. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    I actually didn't ever want to 'force' people to get better. I'd like to think they'd want to get better. See, I'm not really about 'forcing' anyone to do anything in a game that's supposed to be fun. This is where we differ. Being 'forced' to do anything is not really that fun. People who wanted to get better at doing a role would ask questions, look up videos, shout in the WT/HOD for loadouts...or just play around till they found something that works for them. Again, why would someone need to be weakened to go into their powers list and see a description of how the power works...or go on Youtube and look up a video for 'Mental Troll' powers or whatever? The little red shield, target and heart show up whether you are op or not if you threw the they not? Lasso or fireball taunted the boss even if you were OP....or not...correct? Circle of protection? Was it not healing before?

    And I already got gud (ok...debatable)....I'm not worried about me. I really hope you are not referring to me having to NOT just play DPS, cause I generally have dual role on most anyone I'm running anymore and carry the artis to do the role if assigned. Alts who only DPS are pretty much shelved at this point so they don't really factor in. But if i'm on a Fire toon...I can't troll...if I'm on a quantum toon, I can't tank. As far as other people learning their roles...I'm not sure how that's my problem. Sorry, but those who wanted to see these changes can teach the's the price they have to pay for the clamp they wanted. If I'm doing it I'll be doing it for someone I choose to take under my wing like a new league mate or friend of a friend who is bringing up a new toon or new to the game.

    Again, I don't want to pug...I HAVE to to get the Omni rewards I need to continue to advance (again...debatable). So why not have those who really wanted this be the ones saddled with it? You are right though, a league is much more important if you want to avoid pugging via omni. Unfortunately out of the people I normally run with, most aren't really enthralled with these changes either. Guess I get to make some new friends now....thanks DC.

    And please...don't worry about me sinking, I'll keep swimming, cause I'll cut the anchor off my leg every time it's pulling me down. Even if I never get the pay for Omni Raids (if getting credit is ever squared away), I've already tested and I can get the Omni Duo/alerts done without ever seeing a queue in person. This lone wolf is doing just fine, and as long as bounties or FOS3 are still there, I'm covered for marks. So 2 raid runs a week in random content with random people? Meh...If I get them I do...if I don't I don't.
    • Like x 3
  5. Essential Exobyte Well-Known Player

    Very true, indeed. I don't want a game to which we can be godly and smite an enemy with a reflect shield on, but also not take forever to ko an enemy. Dc does not look to the future and its problems and only decides to change the whole fundamental with new future issues of the game instead of correcting the problem and future problems and in one go. There needs to be a set limit of max achievable stats for each instance (generous stats, unlike this update) so we can gain power and go back to achieve feats easier. Getting carried away with stats does not set a good example and when this update happens, it feels like we are naked, while wondering how..where..we are keep our weapon at on our toon. Mechanics are overridden, pushed away, skill lost. If you keep the stats to a certain point, then we can be powerful and not avoid mechanics altogether.

    10 years in, this update totally ruined it for me. Might as well as call it Seasonal Universe Online.

    Lack of skill is basically everybody. Who remembers how to do a raid 9 years ago and how can high players help out low players if those high players are nerfed and forgot the mechanics?? hmm
    • Like x 4
  6. Proxystar #Perception

    Oh for sure, point acknowledged, I mean games go through refreshes all the time, this is DCUO's next iteration and probably will be for at least the next few years.
    • Like x 2
  7. Proxystar #Perception

    I understand, however, for a long time the PUGs (as we call them) have got away with being able to thrash content and not learn, they've skipped mechanics, they've blasted through content and they've then as a consequence been able to treat any vet who has wanted to teach them like a piece of ****.

    Unfortunately for them now, they're stuck in a position where they have to learn and they'll now have to be more receptive if they're continuing to struggle.

    The good ones you speak of at the end of your post will start seeking out information from various sources, including people in game, the bad players will continue to struggle and continue to be upset about it.
  8. Proxystar #Perception

    Don't worry, I certainly wasn't talking about you, I know who you are in game ;) I was speaking more generally.

    I don't necessarily like "hard forcing" people to get better either, but I guess the time has come where it's just what's happened, normally all/most people would "seek out information" and choose to get better, unfortunately the previous in game system (we had just prior to this update) realistically wasn't doing anyone any favors.

    Yes, the game is fun but just because it's a game doesn't mean players are guaranteed success. Again as I said in a different recent discussion, I'm one of the least harsh vets here when it comes to imposing insane difficulty, so much so, some other vets get a bit pissed with me LOL, but at a certain point that leniency needs to be balanced with not completely making the content trivial.

    I really do think if you eased the clamp even further you'd risk making the content trivial and then we're back at square one.

    I think people really do just need to take a moment to adjust, sort out their builds and start to play the content with some awareness of the mechanics. If you want to role play and various other things, then perhaps the raids are not the place to do it for example or you should join a league where everyone lets you do your thing, is supportive and is prepared to accommodate that sort of desire without risking content not being completed. :)

    Same goes for players that don't like playing support or vice versa, find a league who you can run with who will accommodate your play preference, so you're not stuck blind queuing without success.
    • Like x 1
  9. Alpha Maximum Well-Known Player

    Good points.
  10. Plowed In Dedicated Player

    I’d say a lot of people who played it when it was current will remember. It may take an “oops, forgot about that…” moment, but you pick yourself up and go again. Feel free to send me a message in game if you need help.

    What your saying about the stats is happening, just maybe you’re not seeing it from all angles? You can still stomp through instances, it just takes a little more effort & time and/or money. But so do all video games :)
  11. Mister Hando New Player

    Two bad point for the new update :
    - Why spend money on medium armories when I can spend directly on the best ?
    - I don't know where to go. Before, the different places were classified by the level of your Cr.

    Except that I like it.

    Excuse me for my English I am a EU player on the US server. And, french...
  12. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    You are still missing my complaint. I've never said anything was 'too hard' other than maybe...MAYBE... the first day on test. I actually think the clamp is in a pretty decent spot where I can still solo a duo (as happened often since this clamp) and get through an alert with one down, or even 2. I ran PZR 2 nights ago as a 3 man because the 4th kept leaving when they'd pop in...we stopped opening...and' that's not 'clamped' much as the run is up-leveled.

    What I don't like is having to do it. I'd like to get in and run my current stuff, hit a few bounties and move along to an alt. STU, fine...I'll use LFG and find a group, or if I have a few on I might build my own. I have no issues with what they did in the STU content. I really have no issues with what they did in clamping. I have an issue with the Omni journal entires....especialy the solo and duo where I have a team mate and NO benefit is going to the random player by me queueing random. I have an issue with the removal of source from current content because they knew it was the only way to MAKE some of us run the clamped.

    Now I'm fine with debating the pros and cons of those complaints, but I'm not really anti-clamp... as much as I'm anti FORCED clamp. And yes...I'm being forced to run it unless I'm ok with NOT getting Omni pay (which I might for the most part it's junk). I'm REALLY anti forced when 50% of the time I've not gotten credit for the run on the journal entry and need to then RE-run another. All this spells lots of time I'm on the game doing something I don't want to do. Yean...that I have a problem with.

    The one angle I am really 'anti-clamp' is when people think it will be good for helping people get feats they could not simply because they could not get into the content on top of needing some skills. Yes some 'particpation' feats like style drops or checklists will be easier assuming you can get the right run, but at the rate people are dropping out of random queues in 'bad' content, the main way you will get any of these feats is building a group...and if you were able to build a group, you could have built it before the change. Maybe even easier then if what you want to accomplish is substantially harder post clamp. I think the clamp will create a greater devide between the SP have and have-nots. Time will tell.
    • Like x 2
  13. Alpha Maximum Well-Known Player

    The sheer number of team wipes where I am the only one left alive in content you could solo a week ago is staggering. Some are those that refuse to learn ,many are just no where near the stat or abilities needed to go through and beat, let alone enjoy the raid/alert. I tried taking numerous groups through dozens of times this weakened and most just quit between try ten and fifteen.

    Telling these new players to "get gud" or pretend they just suck is wrong and counter productive, I had numerous people communicate they had no desire to play a game were progression didn't mean anything.
    • Like x 2