This is why people don't like the CR cap.

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Savior Prime, Sep 11, 2021.

  1. OnlyNomad The One Above All

    Also with the rate at which feats are released with each new Episodes, TCs, it will become increasingly more difficult for new players to catch up. Also like you said, most feats have actually no relation to skills, teamwork, difficulty, challenge, etc. Most feats are just to-do lists, chores and such put in place to pad bad content. The developers know damn well that new content doesn't offer much longevity, that's why we get those ridiculous "Kill Doomsday 100 times" feats.
    • Like x 4
  2. Alpha Maximum Well-Known Player

    [IMG]


    Agreed.
    I put in the time, money, effort to get everything maxed out so I could fly in like Superman take out the bad guys with ease and stop "insert any lower tier bag guy" because that is fun for me. When I wanted a challenge I step up to top tier or elite content. Something for everyone. So when that choice is taken, when I am stat clamped down, when I am losing what I enjoyed, earned, and was the reason why I even signed on to play to begin with I am rightfully upset. They took something and I am no longer getting what I paid to play. I enjoy playing my way and I have the benefit of actually having joined and paid based on getting to play the way I want. They took it away. These are not hard concepts to understand yet the usual suspects keep pouncing with increasing bizarre replies as if I have no right to my feelings and the actual facts. I MUST agree with them or else be chased around the forum.

    Testify!
    I did those feats for one reason to get insanely super powerful so I could enjoy RP with friends and feeling like a true Superman. It was ungodly repetitive, boring, and not fun at all. Others may love it. There are people that their life is this game or gaming. I'm not judging them or insulting them when I say I have a life outside this game, a very rich life which is why it took me a long time (years and years) to max out.

    True.
    The feats are not at all more accessible. They take significantly longer to get due to: Time in content, stat clamp, restarts because of stat clamp making it harder and people rage quit, players that will not follow whatever rules there are to fight whatever boss, the wait time to even do the run because it can still be a ghost town, massive amounts of people just quitting because it takes so long and they need to log out for whatever reason, etc. I had a much easier time before stat clamp of getting groups together and of course lower tier would be a breeze as it should be.

    Well said.
    I am curious how this will play out long run.
    • Like x 6
  3. Tiffany6223 Dedicated Player

    Sears Roebuck and Co.
    • Like x 2
  4. The Con Well-Known Player

    Just wanted to thank you for reminding me that Doom Patrol season 3 came out today.

    :)
    • Like x 2
  5. Steamboat2302 Well-Known Player

    One could say Sears relied on brand loyalty for too long and didn't attempt to attract new customers and attrition got to them. (through not innovating, not establishing an online presence, not changing to fit the market).
    • Like x 2
  6. Tiffany6223 Dedicated Player

    They also relied on the brand loyalty to excuse their abuse of their customers (i.e. Sear’s point of view was that no matter how badly they took advantage of their customers, the customer would stay with Sears out of a sense of loyalty.) Eventually those loyal customers became fed up with Sears mistreating them so they moved on.

    Plus there was the sheer arrogance among the top management that caused the company to spiral down from one of the greatest retail conglomerates (Retail / Allstate Insurance / Discover Card / real estate properties in all 50 states) to not even a shadow of its former self.
    • Like x 3
  7. Steamboat2302 Well-Known Player

    True... Just pointing out that there are parallels is all.
    • Like x 2
  8. Tiffany6223 Dedicated Player

    The takeaway from Sears is don’t abuse your loyal customers in the chase to make a $ today without regards for tomorrow.
    • Like x 2
  9. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    Waaaait a minute.... I know you.
    [IMG]

    I thought you'd be taller.
    • Like x 2
  10. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    I never got the high kicks down but yeah, that's basically a documentary of my former life lol. Jean's weren't quite as tight
  11. Steamboat2302 Well-Known Player

    And that you have to adapt to compete. That if you have trouble with your brand, you have to find ways to attract new customers by adapting your business model using successful tactics other places have used. Sears could've saved themselves in spite of the damage they caused if they had innovated and attracted new customers.
    • Like x 1
  12. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    Just to verify, you aren't saying that having us re-run old content many have run 100's of times before is 'innovation' because of the clamp, right? Because the one thing that this game has going for it IS the brand...the brand is DC and maybe even 'superheros' until there is a real Marvel MMO...which (like the Sears analogy) will keep people coming back...but only up to a point.

    It could be argued that Allies and the newer 'F2P' model are indeed innovations, but old content...isn't.
    • Like x 2
  13. Steamboat2302 Well-Known Player

    It's not old content for new customers. It's really that simple. The brand is not going to overcome the downfalls of this MMO. It just won't. If the new user experience is bad...this will cause attrition. The brand is what has largely kept this game going. The Pandemic assisted a bit last year. But sears relied on that brand for too long. My posit is that DC was starting to go into that territory.

    You are looking at this from your personal experience. Its what all of us do to some extent or another. For me, over HALF of the raids in the game will be new content. Why? Because in order to get into endgame where I wouldn't get completely made irrelevant I had a league help me skip massive amounts of content. So, even I, a person that has linearly put in 10 years into the game, and had about 6 years worth of playing the game...some of that old content you've run thousands of times is still new content to me. And I'm not a new customer.
    • Like x 1
  14. Aduzar Light Dedicated Player

    Didn't WOW also do this kind of thing lately and lose a lot of players this year?
  15. Steamboat2302 Well-Known Player


    They are leaving WOW and largely going to FFXIV. Which has a similar system in play. Always interesting reading the boards there too. Alot of people are saying its because its too old a game, but FFXIV is no spring chicken either. Every post here complains about a clamp. Its certainly not happening there.
  16. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    I actually look at it from both sides when it comes to how many people play the game. A new player htting this game has to look at 10 years worth of catchup. 10 years of content, 348 CR climb, dozens of artifacts to choose and max and almost 700 SP to gain. Artifacts can be paid for...gear is easy to get...running the content for the first time only happens once, so the other things were just 'getting better' and repeat runs of the same content for either 'fun' or some feat. SP is a big part of the 'getting better' as WAS getting strong enough to beat something that you were not able to beat the first time you tried (that's kind of gone...minimized at least). One of the big complaints we hear is that it's tough to close the SP gap for a new player...the change makes that harder. I don't need these old SP, so I don't really care if it's harder for a new guy, I can just opt out...the new guy will care though when he's looking at having to run content 10, 20 or 30 times to knock something out. A month or year ago, those 20-30 runs meant maybe a few hours and a good group...now it might mean many more hours...or 'never' getting something done.

    Right now there is a thread asking for collections to be sold because they are too hard to get naturally. Wouldn't adding unlimited loot make that easier to get? Well, not if your group can't complete the content anymore...or at least not complete it as fast and easy as it once was. Watch LFG for runs on PANE and ZOOE....they used to run about daily for a rare drop...now maybe once a week. Now watch for FOS3 runs...they run constantly...why? Because it's the fastest thing to run.

    And out of that content that's 'new' to you.....how many times do you run it before it does not feel 'new'? 2x? 10x? Once it gets to that point, if you still need to run it (and if it really was 'new' to you....you WILL have to run some of it...repeatedly), will you have as much fun running it again...and again? Add in some fails or having to coach a bunch of people who don't want to do the same thing you want to do and you might start feeling the same frustration as SOME of us.

    I'm actually sorry I threw my hat back in on the discussion. I had tapped out on it once they put source back into endgame as that was really my main complaint about it. I can pretty much opt out of clamped content except where the omnibus journal missions are or if I wanted to try and farm a pet drop (don't really care about those minus the few feats tied to them). I think it's great some new players(or people who skipped stuff, like you) get to experience a 'legit' run that's a challenge like when I first ran it....I'm just not sure why you all think these 'new' players will be happy to KEEP doing that same 'legit' run over...and over...and over...with no chance of progression past when they first hit it. Because there is a point where something 'new' becomes something 'old' and a chore....where that point is differs per person. It's a difference of opinion is all, no worries....we don't all have to agree.
    • Like x 5
  17. Steamboat2302 Well-Known Player

    If a new player wants to skip, they absolutely can do so. This is set up where you get into tiers sooner, you progress faster etc. The majority of the SP an average player gets getting to endgame will be perfectly attainable with this. A lot of the raid/alert stuff you do...honestly... you have to go on the forums/internet/youtube to find out how to even do it. I had to do it alot even to get where I am in SP. This is the fastest level 1-end game pathway ever created in DCUO. So if they want to do it that way...they can do it that way. After all, this is a concern in any stat clamped game, but yet the stat clamped games are some of the most popular (and they are still old games with a ton of old content in many cases you have to pay for each content to get into them still unlike here now).

    We can always agree to disagree... but it seems that a ton of people just either don't know why this could have happened or why people may've wanted it to happen (for me I've wanted it for 4-5 years now).
    • Like x 1
  18. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    Oh, I get why it would happen....I just think it would have been better as an optional system. That's not happening, so meh...I'm dealing with it....well, avoiding it...but that's one way to deal with it.
    • Like x 1
  19. Tiffany6223 Dedicated Player

    What no one has explained, at least I have not been made aware of it if they had, is why right on Sept. 24, 2021 I can go into Wonderverse with my full 341 CR but … BUT… when DLC 42 drops and Wonderverse becomes Not End Game, I will only be 10 CR above the 300 CR min for that dlc.

    Why isn’t it proportional? If my presence in Wonderverse now isn’t a problem why does it suddenly become a problem in November when DLC 42 comes out? This is ridiculous to me. 10 Cr above the content level for Not End Game is insulting to me and I am being punished for my success.

    I guess it doesn’t matter. I’m not going into any Not End Game content out of spite now anyway, plus I will have plenty to do when the Halloween Event comes out soon.
    • Like x 3
  20. TKMcClone Steadfast Player


    It is actually really difficult to not progress quickly.

    If a player wants to stay in a tier to complete feats before moving on they can't delete gear boxes before attuning them and forcing a CR increase. I have stacks of Flash Point boxes, around 500 pieces of unattuned gear across 2 toons. I had to move 100+ time capsule gear pieces to a storage alt, because even collecting them for styles/SP increases your CR.

    Many of the Episode feats are grind feats that mean you're running the content for weeks. The higher you progress the more of those grind feats you have on your list. In the long run it's terrible for new players. When they do this big rush to endgame and then see the massive grind of all the stuff they skipped it has to be daunting.

    Eventually this will catch up to everyone in the form of Skill point balancing (as others have noted). I would not be surprised to see some sort of monetization for claiming feats without ever completing them on any character. Skill points have already been diminished with Artifacts and alike.

    With the game monetized around creating a more powerful characters not having "difficult enough Elite" and the content being "too difficult to smash" are going to be an ongoing point of friction. Players who spend less will most always be weaker.
    • Like x 1