The Remedy for PVP

With the-on going debates on various aspects of PVP, and following discussions with experienced members of the community, we have arrived at what seems to be the best possible direction for PVP Arenas. The following post will delve into the proposed mechanics and respective rationale.


The RPS
Immunity was added to the game as a stopgap solution to manage exponentially scaling damage. Our proposal is to remove immunity from PVP arenas and replace it with a new and improved RPS mechanic. Instead of a player being granted immunity for successfully landing a counter, the player will now be rewarded with a class specific, temporary stat buff. Conversely, when the player’s counter is punished, a temporary stat debuff is applied.

So, if you counter your opponent, as a:

• DPS, you will gain a significant boost in precision, might and/or critical attack chance/damage
• Controller, you will gain a significant boost in dominance and vitalisation and/or critical power out chance
• Healer, you will gain a significant temporary boost in restoration and/or critical heal magnitude/chance
• Tank, you will gain a significant boost in dominance and toughness

If your opponent counters you, you receive a significant, temporary decrease in class specific stats as per above.

The thinking behind this approach is twofold.

• We want to maintain the importance of performing a successful counter. The more significant the counter buff/debuff to stats is, the more important a counter will be in your toolset.
• We believe this is an RPS mechanic that celebrates the class diversity in the game, yet ensures that there will not be any situation where one class will always be able to dominate another. The old RPS system broke down in 1v1 and 2v2 situations where, for example, a tank was pitted against a troller. In virtually all cases the tank would come out on top in that matchup. With this new RPS mechanic, any class will be able to hold its own against any other class.

Need Changes


1. Block-Roll-Block
This is a disruptive aspect of PVP that fosters guessing over reacting to your opponent. Rolling as a means of baiting and avoiding your opponent’s block break is absolutely fine. Indeed, a well-timed roll can save you and turn the match around. It is the block after the initial roll that is the problem. This block removes the roll vulnerability altogether. If you guess correctly, you perform a delayed block-break. If you guess incorrectly, your lunge hits a block.

While it takes skill and patience to master Block-Roll-Block, it adds an extra layer of guessing. It is a superfluous layer of complexity and results in absurd situations. For example, in a coordinated 2v1 situation, the single player can counter both his opponents, dodging 1 opponent’s block-break and then blocking the other opponent’s lunge. All within pretty much the same timeframe.


2. Block-Break Concern
A problem with the current implementation is that it is possible to block-break, jump cancel and immediately perform a lunge. If the block-roll-block is removed, this would leave block-roll completely vulnerable. We have thought about how to mitigate this issue but perhaps this is an aspect that needs more thought. The solution we are proposing is to remove jump cancelling of block-break altogether. I’d like to point out that jump-cancelling my block-breaks and launching straight into weapon combos is a key element of mine and many other’s play style. In spite of this fact, we believe that being able to jump-cancel into a lunge is game-breaking enough to warrant its removal. N.B. Block-breaks will still be able to be clipped with powers.

3. Knockdowns after Counters
The duration of knockdowns should be tailored to be based on the value of the counter, per the following examples:

• If your attack is blocked, your knockdown should last 1 second
• If your block-break is lunged, your knockdown should last 2 seconds
• If your block is broken, your knockdown should last 3 seconds

4. Closing counter-window
Without immunity, we want to make sure we are not creating a counter-fest situation. Therefore, once you perform a successful counter, you are temporarily immune to counters only. You can still take damage and still be crowd controlled, but for a brief period as per the current immunity window, you cannot be countered.


5. Duels
Duels, as opposed to 1v1 arenas, need to receive attention. Once a duel is initiated and accepted, any pre-applied stat buffs should be nullified. PVE trinkets should be disabled. Colas should be disabled. Players wearing PVE gear should have their stats baselined to T0 PVP gear (i.e. a notch lower than the first set one can buy).



In closing, these are the key aspects that we firmly believe will, once implemented, bring back the sparks to PVP. Tanks, Trollers and Healers will be just as important as their DPS brethren, bringing their own unique strengths to the mix. No one class will be inherently stronger than any other. Mastering mechanics that are based on skill will be rewarded sufficiently. Importantly, we believe that these changes will make PVP arenas hugely more accessible and enjoyable to new players.

Thanks for reading! Please share your thoughts.

My name is Franc.
And I fully support this idea.

i support this 10000000000000000000000%

This is beautiful, balanced,truely a remedy.
This will make PvP accessible to everyone again and still maintaining competitiveness.

This idea would fix PvP, I fully support this idea, it would be great if the devs put this mechanics in the game!!
/thumbsup

Definitely supporting this idea for PvP-changes. They are needed.

Itz freaking good idea guys
fully supporting this thread

A couple of points I forget to include in the initial post:

Crowd Control

Only Tanks and Trollers should be able to perform crowd control through using their powers. This re-enforces these classes' inherent strengths and benefits in team play. DPS and Healers should loose the ability to perform any crowd control using their powers.

Counter Damage

Counter damage should be tiered according to the different counters. For example
Block break counter damage is high
Lunge counter damage is medium
Block counter damage is low

I support this. It's a great synthesis of all the ideas from the last immunity thread.

Just to clarify about the idea for Block-Roll-Block: you should still be able to cancel your roll early to block because it's needed for PvE.. but the interrupt vulnerability on Roll should remain for its entire duration. Also, if the Block-Roll meta is to be officially embraced then there should be at least some ingame tooltip for it.

If this cannot be accomplished, then the only alternative is to make Roll incapable of closing Block's vulnerability window. I personally never liked it. Yes, there are many mind games that arose from the Block-Roll meta but I always considered anything that closes a counter window early to be an exploit.

Ofc,the animation should still be stopped early with another block i agree,but as u stated vulnerability of the roll for full duration.
The constant debate on why should we keep the guessing game of canceling ur block with a roll is that it is the only possible way to survive and be able to come back,if u are 10% and i am 60% hp there is no other tool that would help u get back into the fight,
becouse i will never block,or combo, i will just try to chip u down,and here is where this tool shines.
But with the fixes above it will no longer make this tool ,,broken``,specially in a 2 v 1 situation,u inform ur partner that u will do the block brake and he/she should get ready to lunge in case he rolls.

Health pools could be doubled as well. Matches nowadays end too fast with the high damage from some weapon combos.

Ofc we need appropriate HP pools and Toughness. Dmg now is just absurd.

Hi there,
Good to se that new memebers of the pvp communtiy come with idea's.
And with new member i dont mean new to the game,

But there a reason why pvp hasnt touched yet, as it comes to damage output, migating damage, or healing damage.
Is pve the core or the basline, so as long pve damage output, migating damage, or healing damage isnt balanced.
pvp will not be touched

Along with the big unhappy community of the RGN money cash grab they have a lot of things to deal with.

Along the powercreep that we deal with is hard to touch pvp as seen they need to ying/yang each other, besides that. there are to many layers peeled and put on pvp and balanced that without destroying pve is a challenge.
So all we can do is w8 till the pve powers are update and balanced, only then we can look at pvp core mechanic, a prime exceple is Circe in pve legends that is this dev crew still havent a clue how to balance there game.

Greetz Dibrie

Keep in mind that increasing health pools has a negative effect on healing. For example, if you double our health you have to heal double the amount to stay at full HP. But if you keep health the same while doubling toughness, you actually make it much easier to heal people.

Right now I'd say we need a toughness boost but not necessarily a health boost.

Agree, all these new implementations will mean nothing as long as tbe damage us too high.

Absolutely this Kara. One should be free to go through the motion of performing a Block-Roll-Block, but the Roll should still be fully punishable.

Roll has become an integral part of the current meta, but I can see how this, together with lunge cancel can be considered exploit-y if we look at the three counter mechanisms together:

• You CAN close the vulnerability for a Lunge.... (beneficial power/cola/trinket clipping the lunge)
• You CAN close the vulnerability window for a Bock..... (Roll)
• You CANNOT close the vulnerability window for a Block-Break.... (lunges/melee holds within the window will always counter)

The question is, do we need to harmonise these mechanics, in that you either can or cannot close windows/cancel vulnerabilities? Allowing the closing of Block-Break windows sounds a step too far and I'm not a fan of cancelable Lunge vulnerabilities either. So that leaves Block's vulnerability. The key difference here being that Block's vulnerability is not so much cancelled as it is mitigated to another vulnerability. I'm guessing this is why it is still a palatable strategy for many.

I support this too! +100 We all want pvp to get better, and I'd like duels too.

either that or scale back all damage as i totaly agree most fights end too fast one counter and kill you should be able in each encounter to last at least a few counters before dying. to make it a real fight

Even if you clip the lunge it would still be in effect.
So if you use a melee move and clip it the vulnerability would not just disappear. In some cases its even extended [IIRC].

Why should the tank be short changed like every time?
Toughness and Dominance are next to worthless nowadays in PvP.
Give them a group mitigation mechanic, not some worthless dominance function.