The Power-hungry healers

Discussion in 'Testing Feedback' started by SparkmanX, Jul 30, 2017.

  1. SparkmanX Committed Player

    The Power-hungry healers

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    In the opportunities I have had to play the alert I see a constant that worries me. Healers consume much but much power and it is extremely difficult to keep them full. My character is a controller quamtum 200 CR with 170 SP and use WM (brawling-shuriken master) I put all the mods with SF and several with mods of tier 8. :D

    Generally I never have problems to keep the healer and the tank with energy until now. I'm almost sure that the problem is not my character, but something more. The clearest proof of this is that when I use the supercharge the healers practically empty all the power I give them in just an instant. :confused:

    In short, as I release the supercharge, the healer receives power from:

    1- the supercharge
    2- POT
    3- directly with my recharge.

    How is it possible that by receiving all that energy at the same time and despite that
    the healers remain virtually empty or at a minimum blue bar in just an instant? :eek::eek::eek:

    In my judgment, something is not right with the healers in the blue bar department. The only exception was when I played an alert with an electric healer. The only difference I found there was that he was constantly using the force field unlike the others, this healer did not waste so much power.
    • Like x 2
  2. kraptastic Well-Known Player

    I believe part of your issue is they could and would spam before with no issues. They have to relearn to heal when needed and keep up a hot. It's rough for trolls out there right now.
    • Like x 4
  3. The Jelly Bean Dedicated Player

    Healers use over 3000 per heal while a troll replenishes 350 at a time. Do the math and let's multiply that by 3, so 1050 per tic and they still use 3000 so yeah it's not their fault or yours.

    Ps. Go Superpowered and the regen will be faster than all of that combined.
    • Like x 6
  4. Fearless Fury New Player

    It is most likely a power management issue where the healer is not managing their power properly. Also they might not have their Skill Points in the right places. For example, if they don't put any points in Might and Power then their power pool along with the amount of power they will get back when using their weapon isn't going to much at all. A good example of that is, when you now use the Brawling Mastery Shuriken. As a healer I would also use that, however the amount of power given back by it from the weapon damage is very small. The better choice would be to use a different weapon like Hand Blasters using Solar Flare. Using that will give back a better amount of power.

    If the healer is not also doing damage along with the rest of the group and simply spamming their powers then their power bar is going to usually always be empty. I have ran the latest 4 player alert with members of my league going in with 3 Dps and myself as the healer. There might be a couple times when I get low on power but that is usually when I am being stunned and cannot do any weapon damage to get power back. So it is not that all healers that are power hungry. Some just don't know how to manage their power pool.
    • Like x 3
  5. Aerith Rose Committed Player

    The problem is simple. The recent changes really hurt most healer power sets.

    High cost heals and weak HOTs in general. Celestial battle healing g is all messed up, and it now costs additional power to use combos (cost extra power to give HOT). Nature lost its power return. AM no longer gives power reduction for support classes. It is difficult to get a long combo up in between casting heals.

    This is not a simple case of healers spam powers. Most of us healers went from running alerts with NO controller, to struggling with one.There is a fundamental power problem with the healing class (electric seems the least affacted).
    • Like x 2
  6. MastaMind Dedicated Player


    Yeah I just switched to healer and I notice a massive difference when I am in role and when I am not. I adapt as best I can. I spec'd heavily into power to begin with, and I just try to keep an eye on my power bar and my team's health. Instead of constantly spamming heals I have found that I can kick back floating weapon attacks for 5-8 seconds here and there to contribute slightly on damage. On my DPS side I can literally spam the bejesus out of powers, but in healer role I have to be a Careful Carlyle.
    • Like x 2
  7. Nukpana New Player

    I'm celestial, i did both JFA and US as solo healer with a solo troll, and i run alerts with 3 Dps and never had power problems.
    Maybe the problem that you run into it's due to healers not able to manage their powers correctly.
    • Like x 3
  8. Bloodlife New Player

    Nature here. Healers are way weakers now, and spend triple the power (% of power bar) than a dps pfft do. Also cant help with stuns as everyone were used to, so people takes + damage.

    Did a couple runs in alerts and raids days 28 to 30/07. Alerts with healer and troller, with no troller, with no tank, solo healer with no troll. Also in raids, solo and 2 healers, solo and 2 trolls. Also changed some powers mid runs... to test things.

    On alerts, they are still ez if group dont rush head on. Any combination of roles works. Just need to watch power management a bit and use some weapon combos, nothing out of ordinary. Maybe I just got luck in all my runs... weapon combos is the way in any alert, sodas and sc are already necessary.

    In raids, with the strongest adds and bosses, hots are almost useless, people used to go from 25% to 100% HP shout at you, trolls used to have easy life with powerback from healers now see you as a power drain and shout at you, tanks that arent full hp and takes heavy hits... shout at you. All dps now need + healing effort, we stil see dps used to kiss bosses and demand healing... when they are healed, healer cant heal the tank as well as should.

    Right now the best combination of powers to heal a tank from 25 to 100% HP (and that happened a lot this weekend both in raid adds and in raid bosses) eats way over 50%+ of powerbar, you cant do it twice in a row even if necesssary, need some secs in weapon combos to regain power, so not as fast healing as some days ago. The only times it was easy were 2 of my runs: 2 healer runs. Even 2 trolls werent as usefull...

    Its not the healers fault, not the trolls fault. Its the GU73 fault. We all need to re-learn how to play, or remember... Its almost as in the old days: groups in t2 gear trying to do Fos2... laughable.
    My 2 cents: 2Heals is the way again, or play way smarter. Remember: its a MMORPG, not CSGO.
  9. Telnano Active Player

    Sorc here, run yday WC without a troll, jsut use 2 Colas, thn Supply drop. I also hv Sorc SC tht gives Mana and Heal back, and deal dmg per Weapon (not full skilled by SP) to get Mana back, no prob.
  10. Charmed Legacy Dedicated Player

    Hi Celestial healer here. I think it's absolutely amazing at all the people so quick to blame the healer.......Wanted to drop by and present some math that I presented to the dev's during testing phases for Celestial. What I am going to show you is the final figures for Celestial healing and our main testing troll's mathematical perspective as well.

    I wanted to expand a little more on the power cost/consumption issues for Celestial a little more.

    1.) The current power costs for the standard pure healing loadout for Celestial:
    Consume Souls- 3360 (Burst/HoT)
    AdmonishcBlight- 7840 (Burst/HoT)
    Renew- 2800 (Priority)
    Divine Light- 5040 (Burst/HoT)
    Blessing- 3360 (4 man shield)
    Total cost for setting up the 3 Burst/HoT- 16,240
    Total cost for one of each- 22,400

    2.) With a 201 CR, full Special Forces Restoration modded, Special Forces Restoration and Power Generator mods, 1 sp in movement, 1 sp in Superpowered Mastery, 60 sp in Crit Heals, and 175 sp in Restoration you'll have the following stats:
    Restoration- 19,455
    Dominance- 122
    Power- 19,455
    Ok, using the costs I stated earlier here's what it looks like for Celestial healing in terms of power cost/consumption vs power pool:
    I have 19,455 power pool. If I use 16,240 power to setup the 3 Burst/HoTs that leaves me with a remainder of 3,215. That is only enough power to hit Renew (priority) once if something were to happen after setting up the those Burst/HoTs. The HoT for each one is 6 ticks, so basically the troll(s) have to replenish 16,240 power for me to be able to reapply them as the 6 ticks are winding up which is a matter of seconds. If I were to apply the 3 HoTs and needed (because of AoE etc) to hit Blessing and either Renew or Admonish clipped to Renew (dependent on the severity of the situation) I wouldn't have the power to do so.

    3.) With a 201 CR, full Special Forces Restoration modded, Special Forces Restoration and Power Generator mods, 1 sp in movement, 1 sp in Hybrid Mastery, 60 sp in Crit Heals, and 175 sp in Restoration (max Restoration available) you'll have the following stats:
    Restoration- 11,971
    Dominance- 128
    Power- 17,763
    Ok, using the costs I stated earlier here's what it looks like for Celestial healing in terms of power cost/consumption vs power pool:
    I have 17,763 power pool (lower to gain the 5% Restoration buff). If I use 16,240 power to setup the 3 Burst/HoTs that leaves me with a remainder of 1,523...That isn't even enough to hit priority after if it were necessary and since that's the case I won't even go into not having the power to apply anything else if it were an emergent situation occurring after applying the HoTs like AoE because it's obvious what would happen at this point.

    The point in doing this was to show that even opting for the higher power pool by using the Superpowered Mastery it still isn't enough to efficiently heal with Celestial. If you opt for the 5% Restoration boost you most definitely won't be able to be power efficient. Having that much of a strain on Celestial players isn't fair. You're asking them to choose between a buff to their main stat or having a slightly higher power pool in a pathetic attempt to keep up with the power costs of Celestial healing.

    Regardless which mastery you choose Celestial is very inefficient in regards to power consumption. Either the power costs need to be reduced for healing or the power pool in healer gear needs to be raised to roughly the 23k I mentioned earlier being the "sweet spot" for me. Hope this helped clear up exactly why I think power costs/consumption is an issue for Celestial healing.


    Additional information provided by our Main Controller Hollow Dreamz:

    ~412-446 pot
    ~1055-1098 dump
    31% chance
    46% mag

    412-446 pot

    ~429 pot, ticks every 2 seconds
    12870 pot in 60 seconds.

    ~1076 dump, every 1.5 seconds
    43040 dump in 60 seconds.

    30 pot ticks in a minute
    40 dump ticks in a minute

    9 pot crits
    12 dump crits

    (4291.46)-429
    (10761.46)-1076

    197 pot crit dif
    494 dump crit dif

    9*197 = 1773 pot crit total
    12*494 = 5928 dump crit total


    12870+43040+1773+5928= 63611 power in 60 seconds.
    1060.18333 per second.


    6361 power from the troll in 6s.

    972.76 power per sec. from passive regen*6s=5836.5

    total = 12197 in 6 seconds from passive & troll.

    ~4000 power short every 6 seconds.
    ~8000=12s
    ~16000=24s
    ~20000=30s

    To sum that up, with the power costs and consumption rate for Celestial healing combine with the rate and amount at which a troll can give power back to the Celestial healer there is no way for a troll to sufficiently power a Celestial healer. Nature is also very power hungry as well for healing and close in comparison to Celestial. Sorcery and Elec are the only two power friendly healing powers.

    In short it's not the healer "spamming" or "not managing their own powerbar". HoTs massively under-perform compared to the HP pool of the group members and incoming damage. The power costs for healing are extremely high and the combo cost for Celestial makes it twice as bad dependent on how many combos are used. The dev's knew all of this and had been told many times throughout testing that healing power costs were OTT, and they didn't listen. Hope that helped clear up some confusion there as to where healers are standing atm..
    • Like x 4
  11. KlarkKent Well-Known Player


    If you specing into Hybrid, use hand blasters instead of Brawling WM. Shurinken combo not heals your power like before. I suggest Hand Blasters for healers too.
    • Like x 4
  12. Plowed In Loyal Player

    Nature healer here...I definitely noticed the difference in power since the update, but nature's power regen. was a little over the top before. We're all still getting used to the changes, some still need to learn that the power cost is much more important now. Group makeup also plays a huge difference in how things play...3 dps and a heal, the healer may struggle, spam, and take aggro. 2 dps, a troll, a heal, healer may still get all those things, as the troll stun and damage debuffs are key. 1,1,1,1 set up....tank would get aggro, have group breakouts/immunities, troll would cast pot, damage debuff is still worthwhile on bosses to mitigate the damage coming in, and healers shouldn't need to spam.

    Group play matters, I've had the smoothest runs with 1,1,1,1 setup, I've also had smooth runs as 3 dps and 1 heal, but dps need to know mechanics and avoid damage and know how to block (there's a block button?).

    I wouldn't put as much emphasis on keeping the blue bars full, power costs dictate that sometimes you'll drop to 25-50% but the power does come back. Hit your instant power and stun/debuff the target. Or tell your healer to drink a soda ;)

    And get on mic and ask how people play/strategize, remember those are other people you're playing with ;)
    • Like x 1
  13. light FX Steadfast Player

    Hmm i wonder how celestial battle healing got all messed up? :oops: So i havent touched my celestial toon since the revamp but the ones i do know playing it are doing the same thing as before.

    Admonish combo is the only combo needed. For regular healing i mean. Ive watched celestial healers i know solo heal both raids with 1 troll and heal both alerts with 3 dps. So me thinks some people dont know what they be doing :p Or there are a bunch of "hope and pray" healers out there. Thats what i call em. Spam heals as fast as possible while hoping and praying the heals hit the group at the right time. These people usually empty their power bar very quickly and are still spamming heals when everyones health bars are full and no one is taking dmg. Then when they do NEED to heal the group they have no power :confused:

    Ive also watched multiple nature healers do the same thing. In fact today a league mate came and healed both alerts with 3 dps and he had not touched his nature toon since the revamp went live. There were no deaths and he was fine on power. Another league mate of mine just returned after a 2 year break. Well he came back a few weeks ago to get this cr up to be where the league is. And i watched him heal the alerts as nature with 3 dps today. Btw he just switched to nature 2 days ago ;)

    There definitely could be some issues going on tho. But the entire game changed. And imo a lot of this is people who havent figured things out yet. They are still trying to play the way they did before the revamp. And because they cant do that anymore it must mean something is broken. In the end there could be something broken. But some people are adapting a lot quicker then others and are having 0 issues. So some of it has got to be the on the player. They either cant manage their own power or simply dont know how to heal.
    • Like x 3
  14. light FX Steadfast Player

    1st get rid of brawling>MA as a troller. Its pretty crappy now. 2nd run with better healers. See my post above^
    • Like x 2
  15. Celestial Powers Committed Player

    ^ This.

    It's not entirely to do with knowing how to manage your power pool or because Nature lost that OP power back from bug form or even the power reduction from a WM combo.

    HoT abilities are extremely weak right now > Need to use more abilities more frequently because of this > Use more power.

    Elec doesn't have these issues you say?

    Arc Lightning - Burst
    Recover - Burst
    Electroburst - Burst
    Bio Capactior - Burst
    Galvanize - Burst + HoT
    Overcharge - Burst
    Electrogenesis - HoT

    Electric has the most burst healing option from any power set which is why they're struggling the least.

    They gave the DPS role free power for when they spec into Might yet they shaft the role which may have to clip heals in order to react to the situation given, combine this with how power costs are right now as well if your power set depends on HoTs it's really no wonder everything but electric seems power hungry pieces of sh*t.
    • Like x 3
  16. Fearless Fury New Player

    All I was getting at was some people are still getting use to the new changes. Some have to learn to manage their power pool a little better. Which is part of the problem, however the Healer class as a whole got crapped on pretty good with the new changes.
  17. krytine Loyal Player

    I have a major question for you? Why in sam Bill are you as a troll using a am. You gen no power at all so why use it go to a weapon combo and forget am again you gen no power off of am now so as a support dont use it
    • Like x 2
  18. DaBeama Well-Known Player

    People just have to adjust. I find my self using my shields more. No one is stopping anyone from using a shield or personal damping device (if you don't want to use a space your loadout). Everyone needs to help with their damage mitigation and power consumption.
    • Like x 1
  19. spack2k Steadfast Player

    i see no problem with electricity so it cant be the healers , it must be power specific, now we all know about combo powers and power issues but nature, sorc or water shouldnt have those issues if electricity doesnt have it so balance failed once more?
  20. xXHeadlinerXx Dedicated Player

    Hasn't gotten a good weapon box to drop on support role yet? *shrug*

    I've replaced weapons with lower CR weapons on a toon or two, but it is a little bit painful to do so just on principle.
    • Like x 1