[And debunking the arguments of its detractors] This is a discussion of the physical powers representation in DCUO currently. If it's not your thing, turn away now. You've been warned. Let's start by defining the physical powerset and getting some facts out here. A physical powerset (a powerset/system that allows a player to play as a super strong character like Superman or WonderWoman, without unwanted visual fx (VFX), while still being viable in endgame, is inarguably the longest running and most popular request in the history of this game. Many players want to play as Kryptonians and Amazons -- it's a no-brainer. Multiple threads requesting this have gone up over the years from closed beta up to the 1st year or 2nd of the live game. Each of those threads requesting this earned likes in the hundreds. After years of requesting it and getting shut down by the Devs at the time, or by other players who didn't care about the issue, most of the players who wanted to play characters like this have given up hope or otherwise moved on to other games because this game didn't seem like it would ever deliver. It still might not but it's always worth bringing up again. Squeaky wheel. I wanted to break out a tangential [but related to this] discussion from another thread into its own thread here for visibility as a starting point because it covers most of the usual talking points and misconceptions. Mr WillFlynne has some things to say here. Some of the points he brings up are relatively valid while others are less so. So, we'll "dig into this a bit". This argument can be fairly summarized as: 1) "Brawling is super strength" It does shockwave claps, ground pounds, and rock stomps. All of these are super strength moves. 2) The move descriptions are vague enough to be anything. 3) The moves are slow so they look super powered too. 4) Earth powers show characters producing rocks so that shows them being super strong. 5) Iconic abilities + Weaponization of environment [aka "super strength iconic] 1/3
Abstract: 1) Brawling includes what some consider super strength moves. Many weapons include a few things they shouldn't really. They really shouldn't because it limits the players' ability to do different character concepts and options rather than giving them more -- which is never ever the preferred direction. Weapon sets are the game's method of player characters attacking and a "combat style", not a super power/powerset (difference relevant later). Any weapon that fits that combat style can be skinned into it. For example; 1 handed can be a sword but there's a lot of bats and maces etc available for it but since it uses 1 hand we accept all skinned weapons that use 1 hand for it as functional "combat style" rather than a specific "weapon". Makes sense, right? Weapons are not supposed to portray any powers at all but Brawling does this and incorporates several trope super strength moves when it shouldn't because this was the early Dev team's attempt to roll super strength into the game without doing a full powerset (time restrictions before launch and so on) and take a 2 birds 1 stone approach because they weren't launching with a Super strength powerset and knew people wanted something that let them play as Superman in a DC game. The byproduct of this approach "gives" ALL non-powered brawling characters "super strength" so a non-powered character like Wildcat can't be properly represented in the game unfortunately. Handblasters does this extra thing too by baking beams into the weapon rather than setting up the sandblasters to tie into the powerset's beams. HBs are a good one to bring up, because how they did this also painted them into a different corner here -- if they didn't bake the beam in and offered 1 armed character animations (one arm thrust forward with an open palm (Ironman) or as a fist (Lantern) etc), they could have put in "ring" styles giving players the ability to have power rings. It might never happen but would have given them room do it later if they wanted to. The melee moves for this are similarly awkward to brawling's forced ranged moves, but in the opposite direction by making a ranged attack style forced to do melee. But, we have what we have. Staff's ranged also does this by giving a regular staff user projectile bolts for ranged block breakers, and if you want an unpowered staff character you're stuck with it. Martial arts does this by adding in Shurikens for ranged. Admittedly Martial Arts is probably the most difficult one to come up with a ranged attack for without resorting to an actual physical weapon like the shuriken. Shield was the newest weapon and even it has more potential. Adding in skins for boomerangs and smaller frisbee sized discs (think Captain Boomerange and Tron respectively) would allow the weapon to be used for a wider selection of character concepts too, but perfectly works because the shield animations are neutral enough to support those weapon styles. Wand is a weapon that was in beta and never made it to launch. It's still in the game--Zatanna and Weather Wizard use it. But the Devs couldn't think of melee attacks for it. In hindsight, they could have added in stabbing or slashing knife moves for melee giving players the ability to use it with either wands or knives depending on ranged or melee play style. Coming back to 1 handed. It could/should be broken up into 2 weapons. Most of the movements are very awkward blunt weapon strikes rather than edged weapons. It could be broken up into the existing 1 handed and a new "Edged weapons" type and add in a new series of swordplay character animations for that. 2 handed could probably also be broken up the same way. There's a good argument for this now that PS3 isn't supported and both of these changes would require "minimal" development from the art teams since all of the weapon styles already exist, it's just a matter of creating the new character animations and a new weapon option. I would argue they shouldn't have tried to make melee combat styles have ranged options and ranged do melee because of these awkward choices it forced them to make and limitations it places on players. This is a design flaw with the weapon system that you either also care about or you are totally fine with though, but there it is. Ironically, it was a counter productive decision to do anyhow since players using ranged weapons still stay ranged and don't do fights in melee. So, it was a self imposed restriction that didn't benefit them or the player really long run. 2) It's supposed to be vague because weapons are supposed to be a combat style and not a power so they should describe moves anyone from Superman to Wildcat can use. 3) True. The slow speed could denote super strength. So they again would do a bad job of portraying any character that is not super strong but still punches. 4) So in this case some might think those VFX are a positive when they are in fact a negative for anyone trying to create a character like this. In your mind Superman lifts up boulders so there's no problem with powers creating boulders out of thin air. There's no immersion break for you when that happens. For me, and probably most of us, super strong characters don't magically make rocks out of thin air or produce them from the ground so showing that makes perfect sense for an Earth user who can manifest rocks from thin air, but it breaks concept for anyone doing a super strong character like a Kryptonian or Amazon etc. You're asking people to pretend that our characters aren't making rocks or imagine that we pulled them from an environment when that's not what happened. It's immersion breaking, and cartoonish. Let's not even start about the unwanted Ice FX. 5) These aren't really relevant; like the descriptions. These are supposed to be one off add on powers to add to existing characters' powers(sets). The Super strength Iconic is under utilized, and that reveals the shift in development direction. In closed beta, there were different degrees of Superstrength that you could spec into and "level up" giving the player a range of distinct strength levels from lifting mailboxes to lifting buses. Now, this is basically a vestigial feature because of the rest of the system being removed. 2/3
Solutions to your concerns: 1) We should revamp weapons a bit as noted above. Certainly if there's going to be a DCUO 2.0 it should be done. We could remove the "super strength" Brawling animations and replace them with more classic brawling aka boxing or fisticuffs character animations. This would be ideal because it would let people create characters like WildCat who aren't super strong and look silly doing these other things. While we're at it we could fix other weapons moves that don't really make sense also. Staff's ranged could be replaced with the staff being thrown at the target and just bouncing back. Handblasters could have the built in beam FX removed and some of the other ranged animations replaced with single arm moves for move variety. 2) No changes needed. 3) If the animations were removed and replaced with classic fisticuffs character animations (as noted above) this would be a non-issue. 4) See below 5) See below Finally, dedicated powersets are created and designed with endgame viability in mind while weapons are not designed in the same way. Powersets contain separate powers that buff, debuff, enhance etc the performance of a player's character in content. The individual powers are designed with synergies to other powers in the same set (and interactions with other sets too) that allow a player to output more damage or mitigate it to prolong survivability in content. A power might enhance your damage or setup an interaction that enhances damage. It could release a pet and another power buffs the pet. A power might also trigger a damage mitigation mechanic. Weapons have none of this. They're simply moves keyed to combo inputs that execute attack damage that is defined by our powersets and stats in the game. That's all they are. If a player tries to rely only on their weaponset, select only the few specific powers in those sets that best represent this type of character, while ignoring the unwanted powers (and VFX) that break their concept, they will cripple their character. Even when adding in movement powers and a couple iconic powers, it won't be viable in endgame due to lack of power synergies between the different powers and lack of survivability and damage output mechanics. Getting "physical powered" characters into the game. Potential Options & Solutions. There are a variety of ways to solve this. All of this. All of which would add a vast variety of potential play styles and character concepts for players. 1) We adjust weaponsets as noted above, move the out of place brawling animations into a dedicated Physical Powerset that is created and designed to provide all typical damage and damage mitigation mechanics found in other sets. 2) Weaponization system could be re-expanded. Create a stat based system similar to the beta version of super strength that allows players to spec into it if it suits their concept. Specing in should allow players to portray slightly stronger characters up to significantly stronger ones. Different tiers of strength should have damage bonuses to melee attack moves (not ranged though). Ideally this would also be supported by the environment team also so that they're conscious to include more weaponizable objects into environments for use and these types of attacks should offer meaningful benefits when used during gameplay (it shouldn't be solely cosmetic). 3) Use Artifacts to bridge the gap. Artifacts based on themes can be created that can include stat bonuses, damage and mitigation boosts, AND they can also be used to override any potentially unwanted VFX and replace them with more desirable ones. Theoretically they could be used as functional patches that overcome holes in powersets. 4) All of the above would be ideal. So the next time someone says, you can already do that in game and it isn't needed. Politely inform them, that using Earth or Ice produces unwanted visual FX, not using powersets as they're designed to be used (not as a physical powerset) they don't have the designed synergies they should have, so your character is crippled in endgame content and lacks survivability and damage output making it not viable. 3/3
Just a heads up. They can't just add one power and call it a day. If they do 1 power, they'd have to do one for the other two roles as well, and they would all need to make sense with the cannon of DC Comics. Now you're talking a lot of money and quite a few years of development.
Just wanted to say something about this point. As it stands a Numerous amount of playstyles and choices and "roleplays" or so are hindered due to endgame playing. With the current options we have, I don't think anyone can play well at end-game while trying to ignore what they're locked into with their choice of powers (or weapons). Anyone trying to be anything that isn't one of the current power choices we have are going to run into this same issue, not just those wanting to have super strength. Someone could argue that they want to control space and time, then be pointed to Quantum, but complain that it's not up to their standards and ask for a whole new powerset that would "control space and time" in a different way. Currently those wanting to be super strength actually do have more options to be more closely viable at end-game than those who want to be something else. Now I'm not against them adding more powers, I just wanted to make that point though. Personally I would rather see them make new powers that aren't comparable to anything we currently have, than make one that could be argued (like now) that it is similar to choices already present.
Absolutely. That's why I took the time to lay out multiple significant ways that it fails to meet the stated objective and debunked these criticisms rather than focus on just the one criticism you mentioned. In the end, 2 of the IP's 3 most important characters are not do-able. That's a problem for the brand that supersedes your point about some of the other powers failing in the same way. Not dismisses it, but is significantly more important. Quantum does lock down characters as a control set though "stopping time" but might not be able to do other things players have planned with it. And if one of DC's big 3 were Quantum that would make it a bigger concern. As it stands now, it covers the most common abilities most players want from it also -- while the physical powerset doesn't exist and what's there isn't workable for the reasons previously covered.
I would support a Physical Powerset. I would support an ANY powerset. But Dimensional Ink has been pretty clear that they have no plans to do ANY powersets in the foreseeable future. The reason it's not coming has nothing to do with the nature of the powers and abilities, and everything to do with the fact that they just don't want to do new powers. If you want to convince them on it, it's not about convincing them that a Physical Powerset is the right choice. It's about convincing them that ANY powerset is worth doing again. Like I said, I'm on your side. I hope you get it. If they make it a thing, I'll make one and level it up as well, just like I did the previous 15 powersets. But at the end of the day, this is you standing at the front of the line in a restaurant saying that they should offer anchovies on their pizzas, while they are telling you that they are Burger King and they don't want to offer pizzas at all.
Fully support a Physical, Kryptonian or New God style power set. DC could introduce an elite power set that covers all 4 roles. Would make it cheap to produce. There would be a lot of people who would love to swap between all roles and collect gear for them.
all this below is great, but. the characters we create, being they are simplified into powers / weapon and 4 stat loadouts, every character we create is innately a "physical Powerset" i think it could be done , but it would be a waste of a powerset if they did it the way the iconic tree is now, and how the stat / loadouts are now, for years, we seen people asking for serums, and similar powers. that rely on brute strength like bane, its already there, beneath every powerset in the game
Thanks for the bump Thank you. There are still other powersets too that can and should also make it into the game, definitely. When did all this happen though? Not disbelieving you, but when I left I only remember them saying they weren't doing any for the foreseeable future (which they had also done previously at several points). That's not the same as committing to never doing other powers ever again. It's something I can see people easily being confused about, but maybe I'm wrong. Was there some point where they specifically said (earnestly) that they were not going to be adding more powers, and I missed this?
Most recent response to new powers: https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dc...2020-transparency-please.307676/#post-4303534
Thanks. If that's what's been said, that is far from being an unequivocal "never adding powers ever again". That's them literally telling us they don't have anything planned in a development cycle currently. Players can and should be requesting powers and any other feature they want to see. This is not a reason to stop.
i think a work around would be for content that makes it look like were utilizing super strength. like in deluge one of the daily missions is to bring the giant bomb/missile thingee over to where it could get launched. its the one time it feels like my character has the superstrength shes intended to have. some kind of mechanics. in the hive fight with terra...the lava rocks needing to go into the vents. one would imagine it requires a degree of super strength and invulnerability to pull off. is the super strength iconic power even worth it outside of lifting cars and helicopters in open world areas? i remember a time when it helped you do stuff like carry the crystal across the bridge in fos 2 and the like but thats since been changed. after ten years if we don't have a "superman" power...it aint likely coming.
