The Intentions Behind WM & AM??

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Ringz, May 7, 2016.

  1. Ringz Dedicated Player

    As I was enduring through another one of my shower thoughts, the topic that came up hand involved dcuo and the whole concept behind WM and AM.

    Over the years of playing the game, clipping was the way to "If you wanna produce numbers" you needed to know how to clip. I will always remember the trope back then as HL "If your hands weren't hurting as a HL dps then you was doing something wrong" :p. Clipping was a mistake as confirmed by the devs, but it was a beautiful mistake as seen by the community in how we utilize that red hair child into a way of talent that was known as " DPSing". Then the ideas started to come in

    First was WM- A idea of having your weapon contribute into your damage more beneficially then how it was before. A "Optional" way to dps.

    Second AM- For those who wanted to use just their power for dpsing and also seen as a gateway for those new to dpsing or for those who couldn't rather physically or mentally capable do as of those who use clipping as a form as dpsing. Also seen as a "Optional" way to dps. Now to my point!

    Past year or 2 these optional forms(rather 1) of dpsing has started to become mandatory to produce the best number, and as some of yall who too are vets of the forums or keeps in touch of dcuo endgame then your response is " Yeah, no s***. We notice.". And thus this has me asking is there any where in the forums where the devs stated "This is the new way of dpsing permanently?". It has always been asked what happened to the creativity of having one own loadouts. Ask any vets and they would tell you of the days you create your own loadout, showcase it in instances, surprise ppl with your damage or be surprised by someone else... It was a true community beauty. But now it seems like slowly any concept of creativity is being suppressed as if this is a manhunt instructed by Order 66. Recently with the combat update, it was noted that any weapon attacks between am will drop your am thus you having to restart. Rather they know something about this next wep update or not, a novice basic of tapping range in between power usage is getting the finger of shame thus another kick to the corpse of creativity, even if the tap from that wep dmg doesn't do s***. And ill just say it here while im at it, a dps job is to burn as fast as he/she can so NO it is not the communtiy fault for making AMs the way to go for dpsing. You use the best of what you got and that just what it so happens to be.

    I made this thread as a question from what I ask before and also a discussion. I dont wanna get to ahead of myself cause I am hoping the weapon update will be the revival of weapon mastery , and tho I anticipate many problems to come with it It sure as hell will be better then this meta usage of 1234 powers, plus cr differential to be gone soon, pffffft GG!! Anyways thats what I think. Look forward to the hate mail and threat messages :D
  2. HideTheBodies Loyal Player

    The community asked for balance between powers. The more options there are, the more difficult it is to balance DPS. Now there are fewer options. Be careful what you wish for.
    • Like x 2
  3. Avian Dedicated Player

    Were there many viable ways to DPS to begin with though? From what I remember there was Jump canceling which was by far the best. Regular clipping for those powers that didn't have the ability to JC effectively. Celestial had its own unique combo AM and then there were those weapons with range holds that could do a lot of damage for no reason.

    A lot of the powers back then were just not able to pull their own weight in terms of damage. If you wanted to be a DPS in pug life you'd have to be a power that could effectively utilize JC or you had to be celestial. I clearly remember the days when LFG shouts were filled with "GLF looking for *input specfic powers" for PW" or "GLF PW no *input specific powers*"

    Now we have 4 categories of Advanced Mechanics. Weapon Mastery and regular clipping. WM and clipping are still used by Pet powers (and are intended for DoT powers as well) and hopefully the weapon damage update will make them more viable so all powersets will can choose to use those methods of doing damage. Only powersets that are severely lacking behind now are the DoT powers and they'll have their turn soon enough.
    • Like x 4
  4. Azreaus Committed Player

    WM was also added to reduce the strain on Troll's as the HL clipp spammers tended to burn thru their blue bar almost instantly which resulted in Trolls becoming an endangered species as many (myself included) simply stopped Troll'ing as it became seriously not fun to do.
    • Like x 2
  5. Avian Dedicated Player

    Exactly. This is why I keep differentiating between powers that effectively used JC and those that didn't. A lot of powers had a way to JC but all of them didn't yield the same results. No matter which one of these you were the only thing that remained the same was the ridiculous power consumption. People were expecting trolls to keep them powered through their JC spam in alerts which clearly was impossible.
    • Like x 1
  6. xRI0Tx Well-Known Player

    Pre-36 combat in DCUO was a beautiful mess that was so much fun to play. It was sooo much faster, and actually required thought and creativity. I really miss those days.

    To answer your question though, I don't see creativity ever coming back. They have spent too much time of their time and resources developing these brain dead closed rotation AM mechanics. It's a step up from WM but god is it terrible.

    No room for variation or personal style. Just 1234.. Very sad
    • Like x 2
  7. HideTheBodies Loyal Player

    Back then, JC benefited some powers more than others. I do think there's better balance now.

    My point was really about options within the powersets themselves. While there was always an optimum loadout and rotation, things are much more strict today. If you deviate a little, the AM doesn't activate and you get no enhanced damage. Less options, more cookie-cutter.
    • Like x 2
  8. VariableFire Loyal Player

    Only if you were certain powers. Like Hard Light. Or more like only Hard Light...
  9. Beefiest Cakes Committed Player

    Gadgets was great and fast. Could even use the OP photon beam.
    • Like x 1
  10. Ringz Dedicated Player

    I totally get what you are saying. Thats why I will always choose a smart dps> a strong dps. What i meant was just the basic as in jobs assigned to each role. Back then it ws a community thing(when two trolls exist) that the trolls had crowd control and pickups, and switches etc. One specialize in p.o.t, the other debuffs and etc, and dps willingly(and hopefully) would contribute to what the trolls were to busy to do, which were pickups if needed.

    But basically what I said before,a dps job is to put out damage to kill things(fast as possible).Everything else comes from experience and diligence.
  11. Ringz Dedicated Player

    That reminded me of something i forgot to go more into was about loadout creativity. I feel and think if the devs can just get to a close balance then that would be fine, and let others imagination take course "Holy Hell, i discovered something I can do as a ______ power!".

    What was put into dpsing if in the hands of a smart, creative mind could make something eye drooling and have people ask "Yooo, how are you doing that?". Now some people didn't think that way yet the unnecessary nerf of powers was inducted. Skill points, buff soders, pi/damage consumables + the way your loadout works, was all implemented into a fashion of dpsing so yea it would produce "more numbers" then the average joe who is using a cookie cutter loadout. Which is why I liked the idea of wm and am being a way for players not yet skilled and creative or disabled to also produce numbers like of those... but that seems not to be the case currently.
  12. Kroye Loyal Player

    I always assumed that WM and AM was the byproduct of the controller mafia crying about being batteries. In the times before WM and AM it wasn't uncommon for me to be one of 3 controllers in a league raid run. Our dps clipped a lot, so I can understand why controllers were constantly crying. It never bothered, but I get it.

    At that time, I suspect hard light, gadgets, mental, and quantum made up more than a third of the player base, and I assumed that WM and AM was the devs response to that.
  13. Ringz Dedicated Player

    Looking through I was reminded of creativity and how one uses resources to put into their dps.

    Currently now am is the way to test balance between powers(of course some put a lil spice in their rotations but its still part of am). What i think the devs should do and what I think how it should've been was, get a close balance between AMs of all powers. That is the go to if you don't know how to dps yet or can't. Then let the community of players have our way of years of experience of knowledge into the game play a factor.

    The only problem I see with this is of those who call for a unnecessary "nerf" when actually its not that they are overpowered, but they are utilizing more of what they have rather it be their skill points, consumables, buffs, trinkets, all of that we have in played into us dpsing is nothing but adding a lil spice into it. One who use AMs or WM, yes you are putting out great numbers, but the guy on the left of you is using consumables, clipping with precision and reflexes, got a buff on em..... HOLY S***, is that a electric dps!!?

    I hope I explained it clear of what I meant. Much rather put it out there for people to see rather then "no point the devs invested too much in current meta". But to kill time thats what other games are for. One can hope and see.
  14. AdaptiveAndroid Well-Known Player

    You forgot Rage Gadgets Nature Sorcery Mental and Quantum. Yes even quantum
    • Like x 1
  15. Ringz Dedicated Player

    First introduction to WM:

    Here^^ I use this a source to view how they explained WM would be for, implemented, and why. As i read through I found nothing that mention this is MANDATORY, but more of "We gonna spice up dpsing abit" and "Options for weapon usage".

    I cant find the post for AMs, so if someone find it please post. Tho times are subject to change, It helps to go back to the original source to know where you came from and why you're here.
  16. pitbullb3 Devoted Player

    Powers was balanced a little bit better in t4. You could beat any power with and power. Hl didn't get up until t5, before t5 i never lost to a hl toon. Ice was the strongest dps power, and players was sleep on it
  17. pitbullb3 Devoted Player

    Those powers were using pd more than jc
  18. Doctor Nova Devoted Player

    good riddance to CR differential.
    Not excited for the weapon canceling AM because when I need to counter a NPC and lunge, block, or block break. Sure lunge and block break are weapon attacks and block is not a weapon attack, but.... will block be considered a weapon attack to these devs?
    • Like x 2
  19. VariableFire Loyal Player

    It's amazing that one of the complaints leveled against DPS is that they don't do anything but their damage rotations and now the devs are practically reinforcing that idea with weapon canceling AMs. Even more amazing is how many people here that complain about single-minded DPS are for this change.
    • Like x 1
  20. Multiverse 15000 Post Club

    The Controller Mafia is powerfull.

    It made the Devs and offer they could not refuse. ;)
    • Like x 2