The current problem with feats

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Yvtq8k3n The 7, Oct 18, 2021.

  1. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    Except thats not the design or purpose of the game so respectfully no to you, sorry but its a MMO and coordination is a core value of it by design
    • Like x 1
  2. Tiffany6223 Devoted Player

    There is no need to take a condescending attitude with me. I have not been rude to anyone nor have I tried to antagonize anyone.
  3. zNot Loyal Player

    Yea like when theres a feat like „ no death in elite raid“ the ones who didnt die should get the feat imo. Not only when the entire group is at 0 why is it my fault if the someone else dies? Dont give him a feat then but dont punish others for others mistakes.

    Not saying there shouldnt be no group content had feats but i would prefer it if raids had some more individual skill based feats.
    • Like x 2
  4. Monkeyboy Committed Player

    The old system was similar to what you're saying. You would have to go into several weapon trees to get stats for your role. The feat value is the correct ratio of effort/value to obtain feats. Feats are optional. I see many people saying "good players" or "good groups". Those people were new at one point and had to put the work in. High SP players and groups don't guarantee FEAT success. "Those" groups still failed countless times at the DWE Omega feats or certain timed raid feats. The problem with feats are people don't "research" how to complete them and/or start groups for them then say there's a problem with the system. The problem is the coordination and raid awareness of the raid. I know this sounds harsh and I'm saying it's on people not the system....both are correct!
  5. Monkeyboy Committed Player

    The skill points suggestion would not fix powers without homogenizing all powers, more than they already are. Powers would have to be basically the same, so SPs in one area doesn't make one power more OP than others. Those extra SPs that you're talking about makes your toon's ability greater than one without as many. Regardless of the % of difference in numbers, a DPS with max might and more in PREC, their weapon taps cause more damage, every role benefits from extra SPs, Tank more dom/health(power specific), Troll more power or health after maxing Vit or vice versa for buff trolls, same for healers(All you water healers, DOM away!). Trolls have many playstyles, BATTLE TROLL! Trolls aren't abandoned, try running a raid without a troll. At the point you're at, it's a decision to be a completist or be "more powerful" than most.
  6. lordexecution365 Loyal Player

    I agree with part of what you are saying, I just don't think it is something that I can totally agree with being it is far to easy to circumvent to obtain the feat if done that way.


    In such a feat, if everyone is doing what they are supposed to be doing when going for such a feat nobody should be going down anyway.

    That does not take into account for bugs or lagging issues either.

    Unfortunately such feats are designed not just based on the individual but the group as a whole, which means more than just blaming others for what they do or finger pointing...

    Just may not be the right group setup for the feat.

    It's always easier to blame others rather than to look at ways to improve so that others can better perform for themselves and if it means maybe not running with a person or persons to complete the task because they are to selfish and not working with the group then let them go and run with others who will be.
  7. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    No one is being condescending or rude to you (not me anyway).
    Also what attitude?
    You want your progress solely tied to you, im explaining this is an MMO and by design an definition you need others and you need to coordinate with them.
    Dont bite my head off, im just explaining it to ya is all.
    And besides, you mentioned your skill is all that should matter for feats yes? By that logic, you should have at most maybe 70 sp. all the rest are not attained via skill lol
    Counter feats an styles an time capsules etc dont require skill. Just $ an patience so no, your skill is not all that should matter in a MMO where most feats dont take skill, sorry
  8. Tiffany6223 Devoted Player

    Apology accepted, thank you for your kindness.
  9. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    Lol and thank you for your apology :)
    Teamwork makes the dream work!!!
    • Like x 1
  10. Tiffany6223 Devoted Player

    Meow! =^_^=
    • Like x 1
  11. Yvtq8k3n The 7 Well-Known Player

    I agree there should be a compromise between skill and feats. However, with the current changes is impossible to find players and enough time to do it.
    You have stuff like kill 400 guys, kill 500 wonderverse bounties, do elite feats, do lpve feats, etc. (10 years of content)
    Farming source marks is not practically as you take around 1-2 hours to finish a 100source mark set and there are more then 100 sets to aquire.
    You have a huge portion of feats also tied to time capsules and I doubt any new player will get a chance of getting all of thoose feats.

    All this huge SP inflation is not good for the game, it ruins balence and is a huge barrier for someone that decides to play this game.
    Having a system that I proposed was just a suggestion, but a better system would force you to get the latest feats while decreasing the value of the old ones.

    (I'm talking from the perspective of someone that aquire almost all feats including Elite, LPVE families in 2 different accounts)
  12. lordexecution365 Loyal Player

    I get what you are saying I disagree and here is why.

    SP are not needed to beat anything in the game, a players skill is required for that.

    If you were to take a new player to the game, and sat them in a piece of content they would not know what mechanics were, what a role is, or even what load out to even use and would run with something because it looks good to them and not because of what it actually says.

    They would see the chat totally different than you would see the chat channels and may feel intimidated by it or react in a manner that makes it easier for them.

    I say that because most of the times people use the argument..."ten years of content"...

    It is measured over feats that only will give you 5-6Sp tops, being most if not all LPVE feats are only worth what 10pts for the longer feats, the bounties, like kill 400 or 500 whatever can be done in a day, just like all of the other older feats.

    They made the ability to buy feats for a person like yourself or anyone who chooses to run an alt through content, but to me, as far as I am concerned, I see that as a double edge sword when running it a second or 3rd time for a feat, being the willingness to put forth an effort before saying screw it and just buying the feat off another character.

    New players need to have the ability to learn for themselves as well as to be mentored, but I can already tell that very few new people will honestly come to the forums to even say anything and even if they did they leave clues as to how new they are.

    So far I can say, I haven't seen nor read anything yet that says, " hi I am new here", but I always see vets, 1 year on come and assume the personality of being new until they go to talking about things that a new person wouldn't even be thinking about because they are trying to just chase the gear.

    It becomes more as more of the games mechanics become relevant, but that is much later and so many purchases later.

    Again, SP shouldn't mean that a person will outperform others by 50-75-100%, but there should be more of a noticable difference and not equal to being as close or equal to where things are now.
  13. Multiverse Creator League

    When I started playing on PS3..... the first thing I quickly learned was NOT to use the Mic.

    Why says you??

    Because in pretty much EVERY groups.... you would have.....

    People eating crunchy chips
    People listening to Rap Hop Hip Pop
    .... and MORE! ;)

    And yes... you can go to each players and turn down the volume on their Mics.....
    But again..... it would happen in pretty much every groups.
    So you had to turn down the volume of 1... 2.... 5 members of your group EVERY time.

    So at some point..... you stop using your Mic..... and use it ONLY for

    When you play with your League
    When you play with your friends.

    That's it.

    So it should come as no real surprise to anyone playing DCUO why pretty much no one uses their Mics. ;)
  14. Trykz Dedicated Player

    Well As a long time player of this game, I’d like to throw my two cents in. A little background first if you’ll indulge me. I started playing when the game first went free to play. I’ve seen many many changes over the years, some really bad some really good. One thing for certain is that no one can ever agree on which was which lol. For the sake of argument I’m gonna take the business aspect out of it, and focus on the POV of the player. From reading the comments here and other threads I’m getting the feeling that most people would agree that the stat/feat/sp system needs to be at the least tweaked and at the most completely overhauled or removed. I’m somewhere in the middle. I had 220 sp before the release of any booster boxes or capsules. One thing I keep seeing being said is that sp represent skill. That is a false equivalency. Sp do not represent skill, they represent effort. Toy man missions, bottled duos, cc feats, pvp feats. None took real skill, all took quite a bit of effort. That effort was rewarded by a legitimate increase to your stats, and survivability. How much of an increase is up for debate but I’m not here for that. I’m here to express my concern for two things. 1.skill points no longer represent effort. E.G capsule emblem feats. They are obtainable through purchasing with real cash. A level 1 toon on the ship who’s never ran a single alert can buy capsules with cash and have a couple hundred skill points before they ever leave the ship. That is a real problem with me. I will die on the hill that skill points should never have been tied to capsules in any way whatsoever. They broke the relationship between sp and effort. Problem 2. There is not enough reward for those who do put forth the effort. Now there is an obvious conflict in these two problems because how can I want more rewards for skill points that I don’t believe were earned through any valuable effort? Well I can’t. However we are talking about a possible re work so I am saying that for any re work to have value to me, these two things must be reconciled. I’m not gonna scroll up and quote but someone had the idea of allowing sp to progress your powers further, such as increased shield duration, or even visual efffects. I love it and would like to expand on it. One scenario that could reconcile the issues I have with the current system would be to incorporate two different kinds of skill points. Those tied to actual feats that can be obtained and used to increase your stats, and those obtained through the marketplace or broker by extension, which could be used only to further your character cosmetically, eg spec into materials, auras, base items etc etc.

    TL;DR sp≠skill. sp SHOULD equal effort. Effort SHOULD be rewarded. Buying capsules is NOT effort. The system is BROKE. How to fix it and what to fix is the debate, not whether or not it is not broke.
  15. Illumin411 Loyal Player

    I don't necessarily disagree with anything you said and I dislike the idea of people essentially buying feats with real money as much as you if not more. However, I think it's worth mentioning that the vast majority of players obtain time capsule feats via saving up stabilizers and/or purchasing items off the broker for DC cash which was most likely earned through the exact kind of grinding you defined as effort.
  16. Trykz Dedicated Player

    have seen no such data lol. If you would point me in the direction of the charts showing that I would appreciate it.
  17. Trykz Dedicated Player

    A much easier solution would be to just remove style feats. The reward for collecting a style is the style, why have feat points attached to styles at all? Used to be you ground out a style by running that content enough times to earn the pieces or the marks to buy it and thus a style feat made sense. This is no longer the case at all and Looking at the breakdown in feats there’s one category that is quite obviously been massively inflated.
  18. Melusine Midnight Rainbow Phoenix

    Interesting thread. I think OP's Idea is terrible and too heavily weighted towards alts. If you can just transfer up 125-150 SP, and that toon's basically done, it trivializes a lot of work done over the years by a zillion toons, and that seems bad.

    Anyway, as far as feats and SP acquisition in general, I like that there are multiple avenues. Though I couldn't afford to be a big spender myself, I don't mind at all that people can buy SP. I have time to grind for everything and anything I want in game, but not everyone does. I like that people can coordinate with others to get feats, and that there are feats you can do on your own from solos, to explorations, completions, races, collecting, styles, and even PvP. I like duos, alerts and raids, and that they all have feats and a very feel to the levels of coordination involved.

    Mainly though, as far as "pay to win" or pay to advance, I don't mind it. I feel badly for the people who can neither afford to invest, nor have the time to grind, but that's the only player intersectional-type that is negatively affected. Now that Premium players get a free seal each month, and can use the broker without cash cap, you can play the whole game for basically nothing. You can totally get 400 SP without spending a thing, never opening a TC (except maybe with free stabilizers), and just grinding for it.

    I have essential workers in my league, some of whom work 50+ hours a week, every week, often 6-7 days. I don't mind that they can pay for SP or buy some replays to catch up, or whatever. I also wouldn't be fazed by a millionaire lazy person dropping a bunch of money on DCUO, it only helps the game.
    • Like x 2
  19. Illumin411 Loyal Player

    Usually my statements are backed by data but in this case personal experience. Most of the players in my league have or will soon have most if not all of the feats from this time capsule and typically get most of the feats from the time capsules. Only one of the players in my league actually spends money on them. That is pretty typical of my experience in this and past leagues I've been in in the four years I've been playing.
  20. lordexecution365 Loyal Player

    Same argument could be used for every other system including PS trophy's.

    How systems set up their achievements is based on what they feel like the reward should be for said achievements and in the case for DCuo they chose this method.

    Now I don't know of many who would want such a method, in fact it should be clear that the method is based off what the devs want it to be.

    Skill can be measured in anyway by anyone, it is very subjective.

    It's like wanting a healer role to be able to be a tank, though it is 2 separate subjects, it still is in the realm of what the developers intended and what the players would like to see.

    With that said, we all view feats, SP, and skill relatively different and so does the power that be.