The Community's Attitude towards Support Roles

Hello,

I wanted to have a discussion regarding what I have seen in the current state of the game. I have recently decided to return to DCUO as of February 2020. I came back and realized the majority of community does not run any support role in any alert besides a healer. I have had several instances where I have invited pugs into a group and because we are not running three DPS decide to leave. I want to know since when did this become the norm.

I've been playing DCUO since WoTL Pt.1 and I remember running with at least 2 support roles Tank-Troll or Tank- Heal or Troll-Heal. Also in 8-man raids it was typical to run 1-1-2-4 or 1-2-2-3. All of course varying depending on the content etc. Content for sure has gotten to the point of being very easy, but here is my argument:

For every DPS you have besides the one DPS in a 1-1-1-1 setup for a 4-man there is a damage penalty. I do not understand the mindset of players thinking 3 DPS in an alert will make it go any faster. I have ran VMF with Tank, Heal, DPS(x2) and currently beat it in 15:10 at beginning of the final cutscene. I'm not bragging to anyone, but the point I am making was: even with 3 DPS with 200s with 480sp+ at 304CR didn't even beat the the time with less DPS.

Opinions?

Small content has a roleless buff, so more often than not support roles are not required, however, this is done on purpose because lots of people blind queue small content particularly and it is put in place to ensure success in blind queue environments where people might all queue as dps.

The reality is if you run an alert with 3 very good dps, it is going to finish quicker than running with a pure tank or controller simply because the burn is higher, this is simply the reality.

People don't approach duos or alerts in this manner because they hate support, I mean I'm sure some people do, but the bulk of people are simply after efficiency.

I do think that even with the roleless buff (and subsequent damage debuff if running 3 dps), 3 dps and a heal is the fastest combination to beat an endgame alert.

But the issue is probably borne more out of the fact that so many players are too lazy or too, well, thick, to learn their power set’s support role.

The number of times I see someone in LFG shouting for ‘tank, healer and troll 5/8’ is unreal. I read it and think, ‘5 or you and not one of you can/is willing to play support role. I’m not helping you guys”.

The problem is particularly acute with tanks. I have a character for each role and I try to reserve my weekly raid runs on my tank for league mates and friends, such is the shortage in the community.

So it follows that alerts with the fewest possible support roles (one), has become the norm over the years.

One final point I would make is that if you run an alert with a tank, the group no longer receives a defence buff, and sometimes, when there is a new alert with a lot of damage that a tank can’t mitigate, it actually makes the rest of the group a bit too squishy. Silent School alert comes to mind.

Yeah, this old man waxes nostalgic about the Nexus of Reality - Paradox Wave days, too............among other things.

I even remember Family Reunion and Brothers in Arms (CLASSIC Alerts, loved them) needing 1-1-1-1, too.



Don't worry I'm not telling anyone to get off my lawn just yet.

Most of the groups I've been in have been 1 heal 1 tank 2 DPS. So 2/3 are wanted. No one wants a Troll (and before anyone gets on their high horse I'm a troll so save the righteous indignation).

True; Artifacts have taken the place of the Control Role in my opinion. If your character can regen power at a decent rate, then there is no real need for a Controller at it's current incarnation. What needs to happen now is for Controllers to have more "control" powers so the role can stay viable.

I only play roles, so I feel Controller's pain:

Personally as a healer on one of my toons I'm done carrying 3 dps. And yes for what I've seen it is carrying because 9 times out of 10 they've suddenly forgotten this game has a block button and those are the groups that blame the healer for their inability to play.

So once I see no one is gonna even try to help support... I'm out. Lot's of better groups out there.

In my opinion there should be 3 Dps and 1 support. This helps the survivability of the group. I've been in plenty of Alerts however where guys thinking that all Dps is good and trust me these Dps centric guys they're burn isn't that good. That's the rub. If ya wanna just Damage then you know actually set up a decent loadout actually have your Power Interaction for bonus damage and set up Crits etc not just spam what you see in WT and HoD. So many guys just wanna run their crap loadouts in PVE that maybe they think will work depending on what they won with some duels. Total stupidity there. Now as for Trolls running in Alerts? Sure. As long as they're decent Trolls who have 2 or 3 of the following. Power Replenish, Group Shields, Debuffing, Crowd Control etc. Otherwise heck no, they're just a more squishy Hard Light or whatever else and therefore useless. Same with Tanks and Healers. If you que in that role then you better be pulling and aggroing adds Tanks and better be Group Healing and maybe Zod forbid throw in some Group Shields there Healers. That can't hurt you know? Other MMOs that have Support Roles expect players to be familiar with em I have no clue why our DCUO community is the exception? But let's not blame Support too much cause going back to Dpsers I've seen that fourth guy so many times AFK after and during boss fights that most Alerts that are pugged go to being 3man missions. We do Alerts cause they're supposed to be less time and stress than Raids, not more.

I "do" miss the old days where Controllers were used regularly in alerts but I've certainly adjusted.

The issue I have, though, is that in the "now" normal 5 dps, 1 Troll, 1 Heal and 1 Tank raids you're basically carrying "AT LEAST" 1 Dps...sometimes two.

You're carrying AT LEAST 1 Dps in the 3 dps 1 healer Alerts. Check out the damage you'll see.

Try to "Battle-Role" you're way into an Alert? Even if you try to convince your party that you're Battle Trolling some of them do this




Heck, "I AM" one of those DPS's, LOL - when I'm forced to Dps in a raid or alert. I've said it before on here and I'll say it again - I don't like DPS'ing - especially HL DPS. I think the Damage out is average at best and to top it off I personally don't like it.

I'm not good at DPS'ing I'll admit. My DMG Artifacts are not even past 120, TBH. I'll do it to keep peace in an alert or Duo, though. I'm not totally lousy but halfway there.

For the record - I don't believe there are many "Good" Battle Trolls out there. "IF" you think you are one of them go ahead and forward me via in-game mail OR PM me here your Battle Troll power loadout.

Forward me you Artifact loadout as well.

Forward me your SP allocation...I'm using a Staff as my weapon unless you convince me to change it otherwise.

I'm also using Hard Light as my Power. This is Non-Negotiable.

I'm packing 467 SPs currently.

I prefer to run to the BoP alert with healer (obviously), and troll or tank, 2 dps.
I like it better with healer and troll, simply because a troll (that knows the role) will debuff, while still getting defense boost lacking tank.

Hello original posted ,

I read you titled community attitude towards support roles , I was like there you own response you own some stance as if DPS universe online.
You called healers controllers tanks as, support roles as something beneath dps. As if DPS upperclass.

I think some people shouldn't called as support but secondary roles. The support roles it seem it like it's alright naming as if it's dps universe online, when it shouldn't. And you want to as well like stacking dps in instances.


So what ways can this game bring the sense it okays playing as dual roles , their primary and secondary. Perhaps some new incentives for players to ran as that role ?

I’m with you there. I prefer having a tank heal and 2 dps in alerts I do.

Troll-less buff gives you increased power regen. The only think you are missing are debuffs but with people being able to carry debuff pet trinkets (heart throb I think) you get the debuff sometimes too.

With healerless buffs you gain health regen. However for spike damage it’s not always enough so I don’t like healerless allergy runs.

With tankless buffs you gain increase defenses. However you loose the tanks pulling and keeping them grouped up. So killing each target one at a time will usually take longer than having a tank there.

I’m ok if a group wants to bring one of each role. Doesn’t bother me. But if someone wants to run healerless alert runs, while doable count me out. I’ve had to solo the last boss of VMF and it wasn’t the best of times.

I read a comment on YouTube awhile ago. The comment read: “It’s always nice to lose a support role to add another dps.” Burning through the content as quickly as possible seems to be the collective thinking of the community and that gets on my nerves. I long for the day the dps role gets dissolved and integrated into the other three roles. Healers doing 20 mill in damage and heals! Bring it on!

I often find myself being kicked out of alerts or duo instances where the other player will stand around do nothing or demand i go dps. These characters are controllers and tanks. Sure, I place these players on ignore or report them depending on insult severity, but there's still countless many that do not want to see controllers and tanks (especially if they wear support gear... big no no!) as useful or valuable in these instances.

I tried fighting for traditional controllers (controllers that only wear controller gear) about a year ago, but the emotional responses aren't being heard as you can tell with how support roles are being treated these days in content 2- and 4-player. (Let's not forget Healer aggro w/o a tank, especially when content is first released)

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dc...olls-important-again-sm-and-8-content.303057/

I can only be led to believe that majority rules in this case and "traditional" support roles that do not DPS will continue to be 2nd class.

I don't see a change to the current treatment of support roles or changes to support roles to feel needed in alerts and duos again. All I can do at this point is to keep placing these mean players on ignore and/or report them for language/intentional delay of PvE instance.

.

p.s. Sometimes I even get kicked out of instances when I am not the only tank or controller. It's a harsh world out there.

There is a crazy trend.

Alerts: "Gah! This person is playing their Support Role! I don't want to run this with them!"

Duos: "Gah! This person is playing their Support Role! I don't want to run this with them!"

Seasonals: "Gah! This person is playing their Support Role! I don't want to run this with them!"

Stabilizers: "Gah! This person is playing their Support Role! That might slow my 90 second instance into a 100 second instance! I don't want to run this with them! I cannot tolerate 10 seconds around a Support Role!"

Raids: "Where are all the darn Support Roles? Doesn't anybody know a Tank? Why can't we find a Controller? You there, DPS guy with no gear or artifacts to play your Support Role, switch over and do it perfectly anyways, because this can't possibly take any preparation or practice. Why do we keep failing?"

It’s a bit tricky with alerts and especially duos. Duos should be possible by any combination. This means that for the most part 2 dps will probably have the easiest time since they can’t really force needing specific role there. Imagine if a duo required a tank to pass. People would have a hard time doing them.

Alerts are tricky to balance because of roleless buffs.

Unfortunately more and more people are fighting over the scoreboard. I’ve even seen healers do this. Try to out heal each other so they focus more on healing npcs then the players. I’ve even seen healers die putting hooky drops on adds by tanks to our heal each other. Imagine if they got rid of the scoreboard all together lol

Lmfaooo yup. I had a dps the other day leave cause I was dpsing in tank stance. When we got to the Amazo fight he just stood there so I asked him he was gonna do anything. He said “I only run this with 3 dps” and left lol.

And to clarify why I was dpsing in tank stance. I was on my atomic alt. I’m usually too dps so I get CCed a lot which leads to my aura dropping. Since the person that qued as a tank was dpsing I switched to tank role while in my dps set up to gain the cc resistance. First time I did it I was amazed by how strong the aura is lol. Doing this I ignored damage and kept aggro while dpsing and healed myself all in one. The healer was able to use less power cause healing 1 person is easier then healing 3 people lol. And being in tank stance meant my moved drew aggro (which I normally have anyways) so they were all on me i it made it easier to burn them since they all were on me lol.

Needless to say I’m starting to do this on a lot of my tank alts xD.

Also to clarify I also have tank gear on all my tank alts to tank when needed lol. But I enjoy doing all roles

My main is gadgets and I take pride in my trolling and am a pretty damn good one if I do say so myself. But the other day I had LFG open and happened to catch out of the corner of my eye “Need troll for VMF 3/4”. My immediate reaction out loud in league chat was “troll for an alert??? WHY?!?!?!?” Lol.

That being said, I do feel my battletroll LO would be better for alert groups than my pure DPS. My battletroll only does about 10%-15% less damage but the stuns, debuffs and group shield would be of more benefit than 10%-15% more damage. But I almost never battletroll because I don’t want to deal with people leaving when they see that swirly symbol in the upper left corner nor do I want to have to type out this very explanation every time I queue in to an alert.

I've been running mainly as a tank/battle tank in the last few alerts (with the group usually being tank, heal, 2 dps). However, the current alert, IMO, leans more toward 3 DPS, as 1) none of the bosses have a bunch of adds running around, so the usual need to pull them to you to keep the group out of danger is negated 2) those turrets on the last boss require ALOT of burn. I've gotten caught on two DPS runs just because the turrets don't burn fast enough with only two 3) When running 3 dps + heal, I've never felt threatened up until the last boss, and even then it's rare. And 80% of the time that my health has dropped below 1/2, it's because the turrets weren't burned fast enough.