Tank Vs Tank! Revamp Edition

Discussion in 'Oracle’s Database (Guides)' started by L T, Nov 22, 2017.

  1. Schimaera Devoted Player

    If you're earth and want to heal brick more, yeah I think Pheromone Bloom would be cool. Though keep in mind, you would need Eye of Gemini and Soul Cloak at 160 and usually the Supercharged Head mod, to recover enough SC in time.
    If it's only for the purpose of keeping the EoG circle up, you should find a good reason for doing so. The heals are okay but not massive. So I would advise going for a shield if you're not pet tanking ^^
    Speed Drain is a DoT, Metabolic Boost heals you and makes you control immune. Not sure about either SCs magnitude though. Maybe Penryn or others have the numbers and can chime in ^^
  2. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    The main reason I came up with this was to look for alternative ways to tank. It’s true that this takes a bit more investing in order to plan out but think that it can pay out.

    For example: (this will be over simplified for show reasons)

    Let’s say an earth tank takes 10000 damage

    The tank would take 5000 and brick would take the other 5000 (assuming brick absorbs half the damage which I am not to sure about)

    When popping eye of Gemini I personally receive 3100 health per tick. This is for all within the circle. This means that I will need 2 ticks to be maxed out again and same for brick.

    Between the pheromone head sc mod, eye of Gemini sc regen and soul cloak/sc generator, I can keep pheromone on cooldown most of the time.

    This play style would not fit everyone or each tank power for that matter but it can be very beneficial.

    Not only that but those pesky dps who always choose to melee dps... well eye of Gemini will help keep them alive as well as regen their sc as well. Which ends up helping the group too. I’m not for promoting careless play by dps but this does help raids stay a bit smoother.
  3. Schimaera Devoted Player

    Say the last thing again, I'm all in for melee mate :D It takes knowledge though, if that's what you really ment.
    And yeah, EoG from a tank is totally amazing for melee dps. Heals AND Supercharge. Sad that they changed the Manacles to 45 seconds or I would have specced to my main power, Rage, again haha.

    But I agree to what you've described. For Brick Tanking it sounds really good and would love it, if it stays the same. A bulk of adds or devastating big hits can still kill you, but it puts less stress on Earth Tanks, because Brick tends to die on a regular basis in elite, making them squishy.
    I gotta pass this idea to my leagues earth tank(s) and let them try it out. I, as an ice tank, will stick with perfect poise though Amazonian Deflection is stronger.

    Keep me updated when you tried it a bit in content. I'm very interested in Elite performances. Just thinking about an earth tank with always-on EoG with a nature healer makes me drool :D
  4. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    Haha. I’ve always been a dps mainly. But I believe I am a good support player too. I will always encourage those who know how to dps melee if they know how to do it without being a burden to the group. When I dps I’m too dps 99.9% of the time. Haven’t had a chance to dps with some forum dps just yet. But taking that into consideration I do believe this type of tanking will greatly benefit those who know how to melee. However there is no curing for st**id. Lol.

    At this point I have successfully tanked everything except the new elite raids using this loadout. Mainly because my league and I haven’t been on at the same time do to my work schedule. Hoping to try it out soon. There will be times when the incoming damage is to great especially if the healers aren’t using ally heals to heal brick.

    I do think that the 3 powers that benefit from this the most are earth atomic and rage. This is because these 3 powers have a way to lower damage taken. Either by healing back 75% of damage taken by rage, damage splitting by earth, and damage mitigation by atomic.

    Fire has high health but no way to mitigate damage (not a fire main so not sure. Any help is appreciated). Ice has no way to mitigate damage outside of shields. If an ice tank does not have an active shield they will die fast lol. So not sure how beneficial this is for ice lol.
  5. Calculations New Player

    For tanks, the artifacts are not that significant beyond the recent 2.
    Refractor gives less than 2.5k health to the group. The only argument is the health bonus which is 2% compared to any other artifact. In the best case scenario rage or fire 2% is around 2.2k that's with max equipment and health, along with other artifacts only.

    5k is not that important as a tank compared to this build because having 90k (Rage and fire, best cases) health they already have the health to handle bursts the issue is recovering. Soul cloak making the SC more available outweighs 3-5k health.

    Only real argument to be made is having room on your bar compared to other abilities being worth it. I don't play fire nor other tank powers beyond earth to justify it being on your bar.

    Can other tanks comment on this if they could replace 1 ability for the SC or the healing from SC spam isn't enough for them compared to what they have?
  6. Schimaera Devoted Player

    Well the point I was mainly talking about is using the EoG to heal Brick as an earth tank. As an Ice Tank I use Perfect Poise instead of Amazonian Deflection. Not because I can't use the latter but rather because I have a more reliable shield all the time that also does crowd control. The addition of healing is nice but mostly not needed for me. In alert tank runs it's nice though and in regular content or when I'm kiting in elite, I usually drop it and leave it just to give the other group members six seconds of SC regeneration.

    On the general healing premise, it's the burst amount that is cool and (situational) good. Let's just take your 90k health pool as an example. That would be six ticks of 2,7k healing, ending in an additional 16,2k healing at the end. And that is just you as a tank.
    I haven't watched closely in elite content but judging by the fact that EoG heals pets as well, it should/could do way more since the end healing is the sum of all the heals done by it during it's duration.
    There won't be really a situation where you can time the big burst hit from a boss with the last second of Castor's Watch but in general it seems like a nice thing to have if you can reap benefits from the supercharge alone.
  7. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    As stated in the comment above mine. Current topic that we were talking about is the EoG not refractor. I have been testing the effects of EoG to tanking. I have tested it with ice earth and atomic so far. Will not try with rage since it does not meet my play style. But I imagine it would greatly benefit rage. Earth benefits greatly from this since it heals brick for quite a large amount. I was mainly testing at the time whether it’s worth using soul cloak and/or unstoppable (sc generator). Also if it’s worth replacing hearty cheat mod for the sc chest mode. I still have a bit of testing to do which have Been delayed due to work.

    Speaking of rage, is there any rage tank in this chat that could test for me if the rage crash sc triggers EoG? Forgot the name of it but I believe it is a 1000 sc which is the lowest I’m the game. This sc would allow rage to keep EoG up almost indefinitely. Would appreciate any help with this.
  8. L T Devoted Player

    It worked when I tried it on the test server.
  9. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    Hahaha that is a bit extreme lol. Rage pretty much has EoG on cooldown lol. Now I am wondering if I should try rage lol
  10. L T Devoted Player

    That supercharge has a 30 second cool down I think, so I'm guessing it's only about as good as the 25 percent shields
  11. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    I see. So atm tanks are better off using pheromone bloom or a movement mode ability. Was still a nice thought haha.
  12. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    QUick update:

    I have just tanked CoTe 2x. I definitely felt a lot less squishy with being able to spam pheromone bloom. I ended up using both the sc generator and soul cloak. But in return I was spamming pheromone as soon as it came off cooldown. I also replaced the hearty mod for the extended sc chest mod. After a few runs I realized that I didn’t need the sc generator anymore. So you can replace it with another power to help you with your survivability. I also outhealed the rage tank in the group for what it’s worth haha.
  13. Calculations New Player

    I didn’t make argument for EoG because it’s a tank artifact that doesn’t have real competition in first place. The relevant focus is still soul cloak being worth it vs any other artifact and the most viable to tanking is refractor. No reason for any tank to not pick it up. We have no real useful artifacts in regards to tanking damage. Any other artifact is just trying to increase damage (which isn’t your job) or minor 2% health stat increase which is < 3 dom and health
  14. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    Personally I do not use refractor. I think that this thread made it possible for people to share tanking loadouts with other people. Currently I use EoG, MoF, and Soul Cloak. The emphasis of my build is keeping EoG up at all times. I even went as far as replacing hearty chest mod with the extended SC mod. Most people would find this a big no no but so far it’s been working great for me. I do not plan on using the refractor any time soon. Sometimes I also replace fortify golem or a shield for the sc generator.
  15. Calculations New Player

    My respect to you for finding this as I think it’s clear earth benefits more than any other like you proposed, but this could be valuable for all X ice tanks for sure. Just need more people to test
  16. Schimaera Devoted Player

    I too tank with Soul Cloak+Manacles+Eye of Gemini and I am an Ice Tank.

    As a Rage tank I don't have space for a Supercharge unless I replace HL Shield for Perfect Poise. I really do like to have two savety nets for the time window without Enrage. Since both have 30 seconds CD and I can easily have PP ready after 30s it might be worth it.

    For Atomic I could see the usefulness of EoG and Soul Cloak as well since Atomic's SC is a group shield. Always useful and if there is space on the LA, then why not filling it. In general it can also just be used as a tank shield.

    Earth has imo the greatest potential in effectively using the EoG.

    Not sure about fire. I don't know if people still run Eternal Flame in hard content and if Pheromone Boost on cooldown has greater effects on the tank's performance.

    I would really love to see the EoG with these tanks. Hopefully there will be some Tank PoV in Elite content on YT soon.
  17. spack2k Steadfast Player

    Wouldnt have been better to keep the hearty mod for those extra 5% health and get rid of the extended sc chest mod since that activates every 30sec and keep the sc generator on loadout instead cause it has also a CC effect since the higher the health pool the better the heals of Eye of Gemini :?
    • Like x 1
  18. The Nightcrawler New Player

    Hey Guys,
    This is great conversation and I just wanted to weigh in. I’m currently atomic and run EoG, MoF and Soul Cloak. I also run perfect Poise and the hearty chest mod. I use the perfect Poise head mod and can have it fully ready again by the end of the cool down. Also notice that if you use perfect Poise it benefits from the 10% cooldown from MoF and gets a 22% reduction in cooldown from Scrap of SC. This makes perfect Poise a 20 second shield with healing from EoG and regenerative shielding mod, control effect immunity, super charge generation and an escape from adds. This combined with Density (a 14 second shield) with the back mod, accelerated density, and the benefit from MoF means I can have a shield up almost constantly. I think Spack is right about the hearty chest mod because EoG heals you 3% of your total health and with perfect Poise being a 25% sc you don’t need the supercharge chest mod. I strongly encourage those to try this. You feel pretty much invincible.
    • Like x 1
  19. Schimaera Devoted Player

    From what I tested, with the SC and the EoG at 120 it takes roughly 30 seconds with breaks to get up to 2500 SC after the regeneration from the EoG stopped. That's only with the SC headmod and with just the hearty chest mod.

    Considering that the optimal setup is SC and EoG at Rank 160, it should be doable to get to 2500 within the cooldown period or shortly after. I can test it again with my main where I got both to 160.

    In the end, I agree that I rather take the plain 5% health instead of the SC regeneration.
  20. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    I have tested this build with ice earth and atomic. Every tank can benefit from this build. However some benefit more than others.

    Earth benefits the most as it heals both you and brick. Than it is atomic because it had damage mitigation. And third best is rage since it already has self regen and high health.

    Fire is good too however it has no way to mitigate damage that I’m aware off so you’re just self healing. However it should also benefit from it because healing buff that it has.

    Ice sees the least benefit since you always want to have a shield active at all times.