Survival Mode and Speed Hackers.

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Caroline, Feb 16, 2021.

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  1. Elren Level 30

    90% of the anti-cheat software is extremely invasive.
  2. Darth Piper Loyal Player

    It's like a computer virus... or some other kind of exploit... sure, you can plug up one hole and prevent it from being used, but it won't stop them from finding other ways to do it. In short, the folks who write the speed hacking software are constantly updating it as well... to avoid detection, usually, as well as to get rid of bugs and to be more efficient.
    • Like x 1
  3. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    Yeah, as I've queued into several runs over the last few weeks where a hacker is in (reported a few of them now...but that just spit in the ocean), I'm going to be pretty salty if I catch a 2 week vaca (or worse) for doing so. While I have left runs or kicked some before, you can't expect people to repeatedly leave an instance they've invested the time into running before they realize there is something afoot. Some instances only come around so often, so dropping out might spell either not getting it done or losing another hour or more to rebuild a group.

    Example: running FGSreg the other say and had one in that kept pretty low profile till Zeus...not even the top DPS. At Zeus he burned it down in less than a min. Not sure how we are supposed to get around that. I think what you will find is that less will get reported, so unless you have a way to track them without reporting (which would be great), I'd expect reports to go down for fear of getting caught with a ban hammer yourself or if you are running along with friends.

    Now in built groups where it's blatant as we'll see with survival mode...that's maybe a different story.
  4. AV Loyal Player

    That said, I don't understand what's to prevent the devs from getting a flag when something dies impossibly fast or does attacks in impossibly short order. Currently, afaict, they can only ban a player if they're reported with a correct name, location, and time stamp to allow for log review (and video obviously helps) or if they actively watching it happen. There's nothing in the game remotely close to balls out speedhack DPS. The system should be like, "pssst... you might want to take a look at this..." in addition to auto-banning the hacker themselves pending review.
    • Like x 1
  5. AV Loyal Player

    Bruh... lmao... nowhere did I say "I can't complete content." Get real.

    Defending ride-a-longs is defending cheating...If you're not against that you're not against cheating and you're just spouting bs. This is super simple stuff. Cheating cannot be allowed to exist in an MMO or that MMO has no intregrity. No one who supports the idea of letting people cheat in an MMO has integrity either.

    You are literally defending cheating in the game and simultaneously gaslighting about doing it. Those are weak, scummy af justifications for allowing cheating to continue. Just stop.
    • Like x 3
  6. AV Loyal Player

    Um.. I don't live stream the game at all? Or any game... Are you on crack? I have videos to help non-cheaters, which is contrary to the point you're trying to make a la "why should anyone bother when they can just cheat, risk free?"

    That's not an argument, that's a garbage false equivalence. "Gee let's just let cheats exist in an MMO," or in any public thing of any kind is not a viable position whatsoever. You are unequivocally full of ****.

    Edit: You're also being a completely disingenuous hypocrite:

    • Like x 3
  7. Eve YouTuber

    So lets punish all PC Players because some people have nothing better to do? Yeah, no. There are a lot of PC players who play legit including me and punishing us because of other players will result in players leaving the game which will hurt it even more. It's not realistic in any way.
    • Like x 5
  8. AV Loyal Player

    Yeh... nah... ya have... Saying "oh boy... let's not ban the cheaters" is literally advocating for cheating. As is this:

    "THEY PAY ME! Why should I ban them?!" Is, by definition, advocating for cheaters. You are 100% pro-cheater... Which, again, makes your hypocrisy here extremely "interesting:"

    So, first of all, this shows you don't actually believe the ******** you're spouting now about it not being a big issue when you literally said, verbatim, "most leagues on DC US PS have a fulltime speedhacker."

    Second, pretty ****in peculiar 180 to go from that post to arguing cheats should be left in the game. HMMMMMMMM. Unironically, I've seen it happen several times where a player goes from "lol everyone's doing it" to suddenly "it's ok BECAUSE everyone's doing it," to them being the ones ******* doing it.... mental gymnastics works like that. This, combined with you defending cheaters, makes you look and sounds exactly like a cheater yourself whether or not you are one. Exhibit A in why integrity matters in an MMO.
    • Like x 2
  9. Eve YouTuber

    Okay so instead of doing something meaningful about hackers - Let's just throw them into a server and waste resources? No.
    But AV Just pointed out everything already. If you admit to be in a league with speed hackers but you never bothered to report-
    You are just as guilty in my eyes for hacking.
    • Like x 3
  10. Lovora Liaht Well-Known Player

    I've heard of players seeing bosses health instantly regenerate after a speed hacker seemingly burned a boss in a matter of seconds.

    Maybe this is some sort of way they are dealing with it? Maybe testing ways of combating it??

    Anyway, I feel ya. It completely ruins my DCUO experience. I'll be doing my part of reporting/ticketing any and all cases I run into. That's all we can do as a community until something is done.

    I came back to the game December 2020...and ran into quite a few of these speed hackers in game these past few months. It's sad.
    • Like x 2
  11. AV Loyal Player

    - No, it shows you were against cheating (maybe? you also heavily imply you think it's normal) then pulled a 180 lol which is the exact MO of tons of cheaters.
    - Everyone understood you were referring to DCUO there. /facepalm.... jfc...
    - You are continually arguing against banning ride-a-longs. If you don't consider that to be cheating, that pretty much seals it for you, along with your previous post, that you likely run with speedhackers or knowingly have and don't think that's a problem.
    - You didn't exactly "speak out about it" lmao... you said "everyone's doing it but these guys are SUPER doing it." In an of itself, that post was a tacit normalization of cheating behaviour in DCUO.
    - You don't have a valid point. This is literally the place for this kind of feedback and your arguments are an attempt to maintain the status quo, which is there being hella cheating. The only people who want that are cheaters themselves of players without the integrity to appreciate that cheating being allowed completely devalues everything in a game.
    • Like x 2
  12. AV Loyal Player

    - I'm not mad, I'm pointing out the obvious that cheating doesn't belong anywhere and that saying it should be allowed is asinine and wrong in every way. Only one of us has lost our cool (and you're now coming off as an utter lunatic).
    - Didn't say you were a cheater, pointed out that your words/behaviour make you indistinguishable from one, which is true. I don't care whether or not you actually are as that alone is enough that reputable people wouldn't want to run with you in the first place.
    - Literally 99.999% of my DCUO youtube videos are unlisted, genius, explicitly because I'm not in it for YouTube pennies. Completely irrelevant attempt to alter the conversation via a limp personal attack though...
    - If you can't get the game's literal BiS rotations to work that sounds like a personal problem... but still doesn't justify your normalization of running with speedhackers (or, and I'm finding this more and more likely given your responses, running with speedhackers yourself).
    - Obsidian Chill is not pro-cheater in the slightest, nor does he attempt to normalize or defend cheating like you are. Not sure why you're bringing him up at all when he works hard to expose the people you're trying to defend. I'm not about to speak for him but I highly doubt OC would appreciate you trying to associate him with your "let's just letting all this cheating stuff slide," nonsense. If anyone hasn't seen them, I strongly recommend checking out his videos exposing hackers in recent content as it really highlights the depth and breadth of the issue and why Lord Delusional here is off his rocker.

    Anyways... keep digging that hole.
    • Like x 2
  13. Exobitten Warrior New Player



    I'm all for banning, punishing, stripping away feats/gear/renown and/or removing speedhackers.


    Story time: I recently joined a league on the USPS/PC server and I saw a PC player in my league talking about how they're farming Nth Metal so they didn't want to run raids today. I overheard her saying she has 5 other accounts running in the background while she is on her main account. Now, before you start typing away and start telling me "it's a QoL thing that the dev's approved (which a lot of the players in her league said when I asked about it) how is this even fair? I'm sure they didn't intend for you to EXPLOIT the system and avoid the paywall known as artifact XP on the marketplace.

    Now I know you're going to tell me I'm comparing apples to oranges here and saying this doesn't affect the integrity of the game which I agree with, however, the logic behind this is flawed. Better put in a real-life example: If you're against drugs completely, but you say I'm ok with " x " substance because it's not that serious. Then you're not against drugs. You don't get to choose what you're ok with and what you're not ok with. You're against all drugs. Similarly, if you don't like exploits then you don't like exploits period there are NO exceptions. You wrongly have an unfair advantage that I can not replicate without spending thousands of dollars.
    That's my whole issue with PC players. How do some argue integrity of the game when they shouldn't even be allowed to do that.

    So my question to you all: how is that not an UNFAIR advantage to console players like myself? How is that not exploiting a system? Are you telling me I should go out and spend thousands of dollars on a system to have the same ADVANTAGE that a PC player has? No of course not because it would be ridiculous.

    ex·ploit

    verb
    verb: exploit; 3rd person present: exploits; past tense: exploited; past participle: exploited; gerund or present participle: exploiting
    /ikˈsploit/
    make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource).
  14. Proxystar #Perception

    And... The personal attacks on AV show that you've truly lost this argument, you've got no real argument hence you're now lashing out on a more personal level about your perceived and highly subjective view of his content.

    This sort of approach to a debate entirely and utterly derails any credibility you had, which was already none, just for the avoidance of doubt.

    AV is right you've gone to pretty great lengths here to justify why people shouldn't be banned for cheating, perhaps that isn't your intent but it is absolutely how you're coming across.
    • Like x 5
  15. AV Loyal Player

    Um... you sure about that? XD

    Most of that is histrionic madness but:

    - I said that defending cheating being in the game and arguing it's ok to leave it in the game, for any reason, makes you look like a cheater. Saying "I think cheating is bad bbuuuuuuuuuut that it should be allowed because whatchagonnadoamirite!?" is saying "I think cheating should be allowed," which you continue to effectively do.
    - This is a public forum, used by the devs, for the exact purpose your wining about. I don't think you fully understand what words like "petition" and "normalize" actually mean because you keep using them in a manner that doesn't reflect an appreciation of reality here.
    - There's a plethora of video evidence of essentially every high-end thing I've done since hacking became hella-prevelant specifically because that's what we have to do now because hacking exists in the game... but yeh... take as many shots at me as you'd like buddy lmao... Every cheater my league and I have ever encountered has been pretty quickly banned XD... But go ahead and waste the dev's time with your bs, that'll be real productive.

    Other than that y'all seem to be coming apart at the seams and/or becoming increasingly intoxicated (or something.. iunno what but hot damn...). You're trying to argue a case that has no merit. Here is a list of some of the excuses you've made to defend cheaters and the people who run with them:

    Arguing it's been in the game so long that it's the norm.

    How long something wrong/reprehensible has been permitted to go on does not in any way make the case for allowing the wrong/reprehensible thing to persist further. Your assertion has no logical basis and is false on its face.


    Arguing removing cheating will hurt the game's revenue too much.

    - A game that can't survive without allowing cheaters to run amuck doesn't deserve to survive in the first place.
    - You provide no evidence to support your claim.
    - You utterly dismiss the damage and revenue loss caused by allowing hackers to undermine a game's integrity for any period of time, let alone years.
    - Other MMOs thrive while banning and, most importantly, condemning cheaters.
    - Just... **** off.. seriously... We regularly get people on the forums complaining about something like "I just bought 24364568745645 time capsules and haven't gotten the rare drop yet... so I'm gonna keep buying time capsules!" I managed to snag 1750USD (based on Marketplace value) worth of Detectors from the broker for next to nothing recently... If banning cheaters created any revenue problem, which is simply not believable, DCUO has ample means of adapting to compensate.
    - Cheater's have minimal reason to spend money compared to non-cheaters. Why bother investing when you're just going to beat everything day one anyways? Christ... during Wonderverse, some of the cheaters who spammed for renown had to REMOVE the gear they spent replays for to try to conceal the fact they'd speedhacked.


    Arguing that ride-alongs should be considered ok

    Just... no. "It's ok to cheat as long as you use the actual cheats on a burner account" is a ******* garbage argument that says more about the person making it than they likely intended.


    Arguing that too many people are already cheating so we have to let it slide

    Once again, just because something wrong/reprehensible has been allowed to persist does not mean it's right, to any degree, to allow it to continue to persist.


    You can say "I think hacking's bad" all you want but everything else you're arguing completely undermines that. This is not a complicated subject. An MMO that tacitly condones cheating, especially to the degree as we do in DCUO, becomes an increasingly worthless MMO. There is no reason for anyone to subject themselves to MMO-style grinds and challenges if cheaters are allowed to go unpunished and co-exist... especially when they're allowed to do it in private and try to pass it off as though they legitimately achieved something which is exactly what they do now. Many top-tier players do not gaf about the things designed specifically with them in mind because it has been devalued by cheaters. I also have some juicy chat logs from outting cheaters that speak to just how ******* nuts their particular mindset can be.

    There is nothing complex or questionable about the statement "cheaters should be punished/banned." Anyone who thinks it's ok to cheat, cheats themselves, or runs with cheaters can go ahead and throw me on ignore cuz I don't want a gd thing to do with them. If the devs don't fix the issue, there will be no reason for players to invest in or actually play the game.
    • Like x 4
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