Stats Revamp: Weapons

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by spord, Dec 9, 2016.

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  1. spord Developer

    Please use this thread for feedback on weapons. For general combat feedback (not specific to weapons), please use this overview thread instead.


    The changes below will allow anyone to use any weapon combo without everyone feeling the need to do the same combos. Below is a list of the changes you will see:

    What’s different?
    • All weapon attacks have a normalized damage multiplier based on the individual attack's animation length instead of the full combos length
      • Example: Attacks like Smoke Bomb are no longer boosted because they are deep in the chain
    • All melee attacks have a boost in damage compared to ranged attacks
    • As with super powers, single target attacks have a small damage boost multiplier
    • Weapon passives no longer give you a hidden crit bonus
      • Crit is purchased from the Stats tab now
    • Power regen is based on length of animation to dovetail, or pulse time if channeled
      • This means all attacks regen comparable power per second
      • Combo meter no longer affects power gain
      • Cross weapon combos from Weapon Mastery do not regen power but deal more damage
      • Fly text has been turned on so you see the blue numbers when you attack
    • Ranges have been normalized
    • All weapon attacks that counter will only counter one target and only when the ability is used (no pulsing counters)
    • Weapon Mastery now boosts Precision & Weapon DPS while that weapon is equipped instead of boosting specific attacks
    • Cross weapon combos from Weapon Mastery have boosted damage but no longer trigger a bonus to super powers
    • Supercharge regen is based on length of animation to dovetail, or pulse time if channeled
      • This means all attacks regen comparable supercharge per second
    • Like x 1
  2. Lt Skymaster Dedicated Player

    Hi so basically to resume, Weapons attack damage depends on their individual lenth and not how long it takes to make the combo?

    Could you go more into detail of how does power reen work with weapons?

    So when you use weapon mastery you get a precision buff?
  3. spord Developer

    Not sure what more you want to know about regen. The length of the attack determines the amount of power gained. The Precision bonus comes from buying the Weapon Mastery box and having the weapon equipped not from using a weapon mastery attack. Weapon Mastery attacks (aka cross weapon combos) deal more damage than a regular weapon attack.
    • Like x 1
  4. Lt Skymaster Dedicated Player

    What I'd like to know is if I use a weapon attack do I Imediately get power ? So basically if I do 2 melee holds on 1h for example, should I be getting power back? and how much?
  5. spord Developer

    You do not get power back immediately. You have to hit a target in combat, like it was before. I don't have the numbers in front of me right now but I think we landed on 0.8% per sec to the nearest 100 milliseconds. Have you tried it yet?
  6. Lt Skymaster Dedicated Player

    Ok I see, yeah I've been trying and since I wasn't getting much I just wanted to know how it worked.
    Just to know technically even If I clip weapon attacks with powers I should be getting that power back right?
  7. spord Developer

    Yeah as long as you hit a target with the weapon attack.
  8. Maxwill Committed Player

    Question : How much precision equals to 1 damage for weapons and how much precision equals to 1 damage for powers' combos, like celestials,rage, hard light ?
  9. Rokyn Dedicated Player

    Just have some feedback regarding some weapon aspects. I was only able to get to the Lex boss mentor mission due to it being bugged.

    At the moment, I wasn't able to record my log but it's a little weird how something like Stomp Smash can do more damage than Haymaker but I get it, it's because of the animation....I just have to get used to it. At least with Haymaker you can at least chain it to a WM combo. But what's the incentive to tap up to 5 times and do Smoke Bomb if there's no WM combo after it and it does less damage than a combo with longer dovetail (that is clippable?). Technically the DPS would be greater on a clippable long animation combo compared to a clipped Smoke Bomb time wise. Just pointing out the difference there, I'm open to hear another perspective.

    I didn't notice the precision increase at all with Brawling specced into Mastery (and Brawling equipped) under current effects and under the stat tab versus regular Brawling (and Brawling equipped). Is there missing text regarding this information?
    • Like x 1
  10. eanur Well-Known Player

    Played on test last night and I don't have much of an issue with the way weapons allow us to restore power I like how that could work for some classes like dot power's and pet ones but it don't quitell work for other classes. To solve this how about having this new powerback mechanic introduced to powers also so the power we get back is based on each powers timer and duration etc. This would allow us to both play from the tray more if we wish whilet still keeping the fundinentals of what this new system is intact
  11. VioletSorceress Committed Player

    My understanding is:
    1. Spin Chop(and all short combos) will now do more damage since its shorter and more spammable.
    2. Flip Slash(and all longer combos) will be a damage lose but will restore more power.

    3. Weapon Mastery buffing Precision and weapon damage sounds good for hybrid roles but at the same time speccing WM combos will require extra SP which might be better spent at stats instead.
  12. DCUO Addict Committed Player

    I just started testing last night, so my feedback is very preliminary.

    I really, really, really like that weapons are a viable option for damage again. Before AM, I loved weaving weapon attacks together with powers, and I hope to optimize that style for myself again. (I was never a master of clipping, so I won't try to weigh in on those aspects. I still don't really understand what dovetail means, lol.)

    That being said, what's your target for how comparable the weapon damage is to power damage? I made an ice toon with HB. Ice boulder is doing ~2.5-3x the damage that scissor kick does, and snowball does something like 10-15% more than SK. Is this about what you're shooting for? I'd like to see the weapons be a bit more on par with the powers. However, I didn't test the melee moves as much, so is that part of the reason my weapon damage was lagging behind power damage?

    I also like that countering really seems to matter! I think I'm doing close to twice the damage blocking a lunge as I do lunging. (I've only had a few occaisions to test this, so that estimate is based on very limited data.) I haven't had a chance to check the numbers on lunging a hold range attack, but I'm hoping it's in line with other counters.
  13. spord Developer

    I'll take a look at the Precision bonus not showing in the current effects window. We needed weapons to be balanced on a per attack basis before we look at damage multipliers for combos.
  14. Black Jaq Devoted Player

    Am I correct that damage from a WM combo does not give power back?
  15. Jacob Dragonhunter Devoted Player

    is WM also supposed to trigger power refund?

    I'm using Staff in to Mortar, but I'm noticing my power is only refunded for the Focus Spin Mastery. Mortar Mastery on the other hand is not restoring power.

    Edit Nvm: Read above.
  16. Tilz Loyal Player

    read above, cross WM won't trigger power regen. So it's jsut more damage with WM, but not powerback
  17. HoiiowDreamz Dedicated Player

    Testing the supercharge regen from different combos, I found something weird and not consistent with what I thought I would see.
    Range combos*
    H = hold, T = Tap

    1T = 5
    3T = 8
    1H = 11
    2H = 20
    1H 1T = 21

    1T = 8
    1H = 13
    1HForwardDirection = 20

    1T = 5
    1T 1HRanged = 21
    1T 1HMelee = 11
    Holding = 8/half sec'ish

    1T = 10
    1H = 18

    1H = 16
    2H = 10
    3H = 15

    1H = 16
    1T = 11

    1T = 10
    1HForwardWhileAway = 20
    1HBackwardWhileClose = 21
    1HBackwardsWhileAway= 20
    1HForwardWhileClose = 11

    1T = 8
    1H = 16
    2H = 21
    3H = 20

    1T = 6
    2T = 8
    1T1T1H = 15
    1H = 16

    1T = 8
    1H = 20

    I originally thought that the change meant that every weapon would build supercharge at the same speed regardless of what combo I was doing, however I noticed that when I did HB tap ranges, my supercharge barely moved while when I was doing holds, it was jumping repeatedly. The hold combos seemed to be regenerating supercharge significantly faster. I also noticed that for some weapons when they were clipped, the supercharge amount was cut. If I clipped on certain combos that normally gave 20 to 21 supercharge, I would end up with 15 supercharge instead (HB 2H and 2Handed 1H as examples). However, Bow didn't get that shortening for some reason and while HB hold range hold range was getn cut to 15, hold range tap range was still giving me 21. Which leaves me with two questions:

    1. That means that there still exists a best controller/healer weapon for ranged power and supercharge regen if they're all not the same/equivalent time wise especially if you're clipping animations? Example: No matter how fast I tap with Staff, if the tap is only 6-8, it's not going to match me holding forward on the bow bb for 20. I can't fit in 3-4 taps during 1 second basically.

    2. If Melee combos are the same as ranged (I don't have the money or sp on test currently to test it) then I'm also curious seeing as HB Bow and MA all gave me 20 supercharge from lunging while MA has the fastest animation. I definitely can't do 3-4 taps in the same time period as a MA lunge either. Which makes me think that spamming MA lunge as a tank and clipping it with a supercharge generator would be your fastest means of supercharge regen, as a melee version of bow's hold in a direction so to speak. If so, I can see Earth Ice and def. Rage just lunging repeatedly and having a supercharge advantage over say Fire and possibly Atomic depending on how you guys do it's regen. Is that intended?
    • Like x 2
  18. MAXILIANO Loyal Player

    First of all I have to say I'm enjoying how the guns stayed! I loved being able to use WM! I was afraid you were going to take off! That in itself is wonderful!

    Now a request!
    In fact I'll practically beg!
    Return Encircling Trhow the way it was before! For the love of God!:eek:
    When I went to training the first thing was to choose the dual wield to see how the Encircling trhow was! And what was my total disappointment to see that they had not moved!
    Please! I beg! If the problem is the PVP. Let this attack be forbidden for PVP. But let us use it as it was before!
    I've always loved this weapon, and since you took off the movement the original way, I never could use it again! For it has lost all sense to me!

    For God's sake give it back! Really!
  19. Black Jaq Devoted Player

    I'll but this here, but Counter damage seems high. Fighting 8th Ave Pct and my Block caused Donna Troy 910 in damage. I know it could be a crit, but still seems high. Saw it again, Block counters do high damage. Lunge counters about half but it can still take an NPC health down by 25%!
  20. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    It could be an intended change to encourage people to farm counters while fighting
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