Stats Revamp: State of PvP and History Repeating Itself.

To whom it may concern in the Development Team,
* My English isn't the best so excuse me in advance:

You must be sick and tired of seeing PvP in any title associated with the Stats Revamp.
Well.. Apologies.

I've been playing this game for about 6 years now, and I've seen how PvE affected PvP and vise versa, directly and indirectly, all these years.

DCUO consistently breaks down its updates into two separate subjects when dealing with PvE and PvP.
Ironically, this mindset led this game through a non ending cycle of one affecting the other, essentially branding each update redundant with the new one coming out.

If "Update A" deals with PvE, and PvE alone, whether It's a change to a Powerset, Ability, Movement Mode, Counter Mechanic or a System like Dodge/Immunity/AM/WM - it still ends up affecting PvP.
Then "Update B" comes along to deal with PvP, and PvP alone, touches the same subjects.. and ends up affecting PvE.
- And so this cycle continues endlessly.

Ideally, PvP and PvE being completely separated is a great idea, but in practice - it was never achieved in DCUO. (Due to technical reasons, resouces, manpower.. over the years we were given all sorts of answers)

You're all working hard on a Stats Revamp nowdays, and you once again chose to separate it from its affects on PvP - leaving said effects to be dealt with in a vague mention of future updates.
You have one game, it may have a lot to offer, but at the end of the day it all needs to work together - the changes you make to a Powerset, Mechanic, System, Movement.. they end up affecting the balance of PvP aswell.
It would be the same when you finally do have the time to address PvP, you will change elements of a Powerset, Mechanic, System or Movement.. and it will inevitably affect PvE - Forcing you to once again tend to what it caused.

History is doomed to repeat itself if it continues in the manner that it have.

I encourage you and your team to look into a possibility of synchronizing when pushing new updates - closely watch PvP and PvE together to see how changes to each aspect cross affects the other.
Yes, it may be a lot on that plate, but evidently separating plates doesn't lead to good results, atleast not in DCUO's case.

This is just my opinion, but I would love to know what others think, especially in the Development team.

“Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it”.
- Winston Churchill

PVP has not been touched in the Revamp so at the moment, we dont know whats going to happen to it.

PvP haven't been addressed directly with Stats Revamp, but it was unavoidably affected.

This thread did not suggest anything was touched with intention, it was only made to surface a repeating procedure that ends up hindering a desired result.

I also don't know if I'll get hit by a bus tomorrow, but I do try my best to walk on proper crossing lines and follow traffic lights to avoid it.

I think her point boils down to that taking more of a holistic approach up front might actually save time in the long run compared to the piecemeal dev/testing that's been going on. You don't want to change one part of a system without at least considering what'll happen to other components that'd be affected too. The "stats revamp" is not just a couple tweaks in stats. It is a complete reinvention of the combat system that'll affect every aspect of the game.

You've seen what happens when we try to balance a single powerset in isolation right? It's the same deal here. You can't just spend a year working on PvE just to hack in PvP later when the changes are this significant.

I understand that we're still in the initial stages of the revamp and holistic testing is coming later, but then we should REALLY be clear about this. A lot of the discussion and testing has been about balance but that's not where we're at. We should be working on making the new combat system fun and engaging first, and then worrying about fine-tuning numbers later when everything can be tested together.

What I'd like to see is the initial vision across the board - tell us what's gonna happen with powers, weapons, PvE, PvP, legends, etc. Even better if we can get a prototype of changes on test. And then start working out the individual components. Then both developers and testers could evaluate specific changes with more context, saving us some back-and-forth later.

I should've just asked you to write this thread for me.

All I'm trying to convey in this thread is based on one unfortunate fact:
PvP and PvE correlate on a basic level that the DCUO development team was unable to separate.

And because of this unfortunate fact, I believe the only way to efficiently test and push updates from test to live is by examining the cross effects between PvE and PvP in the process.

IMO, the worst thing that DCUO could have done was trying to make PVP & PVE separate
( have different stats ). This has been taking the long hard way with both pve & pve affecting each other.

The best thing DCUO could do is make PVP & PVE share the same stats.

I'm not against separating PvE and PvP at all, I wish it was the case.
But they were unable to do so, they tried so many times and were hit with what they described as "Technical Blocks".
I mean, at what point do we call quits on this approach? If you can't separate the two, make sure the correlation works.

I'm totally against separating them for that reason. There have been too many issues with one borking the other.
All DCUO did was make double the work for something that could be done one time.

Where I come from you get paid to do the job one time. You don't get paid for mistakes & do overs.
If you have to come back to fix things you're not making money, you look bad and more than likely do not get to come back for another job.

Thing is that the devs always focus on the "non-important" things when it comes to PvP, it always gets affected by PvE no matter what so I'd agree with seperating them. MA on Live isn't (still crits 7ks... just compare that to 2013 damage) , Hand Blasters not fixed, Power Spams not fixed, Damage NOT balanced at all , Roll glitches... still exist. Devs don't care about PvP because it doesn't have as much population as PvE but the reason PvP doesn't have much population is because of the devs breaking the whole thing. If they brought back RPS system ,Role gear, balanced the damage, fixed all the glitches, players would most likely come back aswell.

The op and this I 100% agree with, but it is the players that I see who pushes the focus more on numbers of damage each power gives instead of the fun part of it, this essentially what this game is all about now, which power can compete with the scoreboard, threads that addresses mass hysteria supercharge apearance get little to no attention from the playerbase, and that is why role gear has been removed and all gears united, but we will see how it all plays out.

I don't really have a stance on either direction the devs choose to take, but PvP will require just as much if not more time as PvE. With that being said, it might be better testing both at the same time, instead of hoping for it to be looked into in some hypothetical future update.

The devs clearly have an idea about what PvP is going to be like after revamp considering all the things they've already changed, like the stats in the gear, the shields change, and even adding in some completely new stats for PvP.

What I want the most from the devs though, is an acknowledgement that PvP will get all the attention and time it needs before this revamp hits live. If not it's just replacing one broken mess of crap with another.

Hello everyone I will start by saying that pvp has never been my taste in any game and nevertheless in dcuo only get to play for the following reasons. 1.-Prowess, hawkgirl metal armor and get pvp coins even if you lose without doing anything or just being behind protective bars waiting to be finished time. 2.-Question A, why let yourself be killed or kill time behind bar protection? Answer A, simple because as cr inferior you will not exceed the statistics of someone with CR greater than 15, example player pvp cr15 vs second player pvp cr30. And also the most absurd player pvp cr100 being defeated by player pve cr0 either by speed or 1 or 2 hits (hackers). 3.- Perhaps some of the faithful to pvp, noticed a drop in population of pvp because of these reasons. 4.- I do not know if it is my impression, but in addition to the above, I remember that before pvp was only playable with dps and 4 armor slots, just when they put the game of pvp to the media roles, but armor slots, AM And WM BOOM pvp starts to go down. As a player pve I agree that pvp needs to be changed and should have the same statistics offered by pve and at the same time see how to compensate pvp players who change or start playing pve and vice versa.

P.S. The only statistical difference between pvp and pve should be strength.

I kept thinking while the statistics of armors of the same level of pvp and pve were exactly the same, except for the fact that in phase pve you would not have strength and in pvp phase you would not have defense then as pvp player when changing phase t The amount of your fort statistic should change for the same amount of defense and in the same way for those who change pve to pvp phase. Example I am pvp and I have 3000 of strength change to phase pve, I lose my fort statistic and I gain 3000 of statistics defense and also for being in phase pve I can not enter to instances pvp or pvplegends nor buy or see sellers pvp and the same would happen if I change Of phase pve to pvp, not instances of pve or pvelegends, nor to be able to buy or see pvp vendors. Y Also a proposal at least 1 time per month 1 event pvp developers vs community pvp.

The only way pvp will be fixed is if there's a way for them to make money they tried it before with Last Laugh and it was a complete mess and it's never recovered and it won't until it can turn a profit.

ways to make money from pvp:
-restricted coliseum in open world for spectating fights (members only)
-actually hosting and doing giveaways for pvp (more play)
-loot locks from pvp maps with a reasonal replay value
-higher pvp feats in all categories (more play)
-pvp only styles that have a low chance to drop (members only, similar to lockbox styles)
-new weapon types (more play)
-new maps (more play)
-offering double marks/no lockouts for a set time period like XP and renown boosts
-double mark rotated maps (more play, if priced right, possible replay value)
-make pvp-specific omnipotent gear similar to af3. get a full set of 101, have a chance to drop a suicide squad collection scattered throughout the pvp maps that can give pvp-op weapons, utility belt, neck, and face. These op pieces will not have pve stats and will be allowed in arenas and open world but not pve instances. Maybe a style only set like how the minotaur head is using this joker outfit (i want his chest):


Or **** like this:


-breaking gear/tying up inside of arena now grants a new item *villain or hero scraps*. after collecting so many scraps, you can add additional materials to it (different version of stabilizer) and create pvp specific styles and auras. scraps may also be earned in open world but have a significantly reduced drop rate.

- PvP Only DLC that has a new set of HT mods for pvp only that aren't broken af like the pve one's but are useful THAT WE HAVE TESTED AND MADE SURE ISN'T BROKEN. (troll idea - when dead, has a 50% chance to repel nearby enemies seeking to break gear)

- PvP title animations that can be bought or earned to taunt after duels and fights like champion mastery in league of legends. Extra points if they release power-specific background effects like particles for atomic or quantum or a green glow for a HL user.


- $5 for a temporary PVP PHASE ONLY 1shot trinket that holds up to 5 charges of a 1shot. Trinket recharges to grant an additional 1shot once a day.

- PvP events like Starro/Anti-Monitor where only pvp gear works and we have dailies/bosses similar to how the T5 iconics were when they were released but in open world. Successful completion of missions grants pvp stabilizers to be used on New Suicide Squad Capsules. However, pvp stabilizers have a chance to be looted by an enemy player when you die. Encourages teamplay while completing missions and open world wars for stabilizers for new styles.

I think we can all agree there are countless ways the devs can make money from PvP. The focus of this thread, however, is related to PvP balance in Stats Matter. If the devs have no intention of fixing PvP they should let us know now.

+100000000000000000000000000

If you weren't about to make this I was lol.