Stats Revamp: Power Costs

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by Mepps, Jan 6, 2017.

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  1. Jacob Dragonhunter Devoted Player

    Testing power cost build #2
    Character build: 20 Crit chance, 40 SP spec'd into crit damage. 108 Spec'd into power. I reserved a Few SP for HB.

    So I have literally no might here.

    Against Faust:
    Still can't sustain my power bar without resorting to using weapons.

    Conclusion: Something has to give here, we need quicker power-regeneration to sustain playing from the tray or we need to drop the power cost.
    At this rate controllers will be nothing but batteries, which will not make them controllers anymore, and People on live who enjoy the Play from the tray style won't be happy.

    I can also regenerate power much quicker using Handblaster melee combos versus "Specing my SP into power" like it was claimed.

    Edit #1: You lose out on too much damage potential if you spec full power because you don't got enough might.

    Verdict: Power-regeneration currently on test isn't cutting the mustard, I'll be testing out content with weapons for now.

    • Like x 5
  2. hotsizz1e03 Committed Player

    AMEN crappy.. its like the small things that should be fixed get MAJOR OVERHAULS.. its really mind boggling. This stats matter update is a result 4 years of BAD CORE changes to the game.. stick to the core, stick to the fundamentals and listen to the people.. please i beg you devs. no disrespect.
    • Like x 3
  3. Karasawa Loyal Player

    They do like 12k damage out of my 18k health so about 67% of my life. It's not a true one-shot though it did make me raise an eyebrow the first time. Just making sure it's supposed to be like that and is the same way on Live.
  4. stärnbock Devoted Player

    hello, im back and can finaly give feedback again ^^

    problem: i run out of mana, after one rotation that includes normaly a PI applicator, clipped with a buff or a shield or similar, a DOT, and finaly the burst attack. thing is: it happens a lot that the adds die to fast from the attacks of other dammagers and/or new adds come and i am left with no mana at all, not even enough for activating a shield or such... with the looooong cooldowns in addition, this gets even worse at times... however: the costs must get stated somewhere, most of all, they need to get reduced drasticly, at least to half of theyr costs! it is frustrating to be out of power all the time... also some weapons are extremly bad to produce mana by theyr attacks, while others have an unfair advantage...

    i will post my feedback in detail in different threads, mostly for mental, but also for weapons, cooldowns, and in general.
    my feedback for power cost here is a suggestion:
    give us NUMBERS for power cost and REDUCE power costs drastically.
  5. VioletSorceress Committed Player

    OMG, you mean to tell me that Weapon buffs used to cost even more before? xD
    Current power costs still seem very high for a Weapon buff since these have been at everybody's loadouts since the begging of the game and always with lowest power costs compared to anything else.

    Stats Revamp was advertised for everybody being able to play what they want but that wont be possible at all.
    Playing Purely from Tray will be a rocket science and each different play style requires different Time Capsules mods. So switching between Weapon based/Tray based loadouts wont be a very good idea even if u have Armories ready, cause it is not like you can change between Critical Weapon buffs/Supercharged/Energized mods at daily or even weekly basis to get best results.

    Most forgiving play style seems to be simple weapon clipping but without Weapon buffs(too high power cost for a questionable reward) and 6th tray power always being a Supercharge just because rotating 6 normal tray powers would eat crazy amount of power.

    I am curious around what amount of average Skill Points are Devs balancing things around and how much SP should be invested in Power stat for:
    1. Playing purely from tray Dps
    2. Weapon clipping Dps.
    3. Tanking.
    4. Healing.
    5. Controll.

    Idk if Devs' intention was this but It seems like Power is becoming the main stat for all roles and Power management will be biggest annoyance from now on. Current RiskVsReward system is being replaced with PowerVsReward.

    With this Power management thing, a new player with say 30-40 SP would have to invest them all in Power stat just to be able to play and then farm more SP for Criticals and what used to be main stat for his role before.
  6. hotsizz1e03 Committed Player

    why isnt there more likes on this??? Are we all playing the same game on TEST SERVERS??
  7. Crimson Mayhem Loyal Player

    You're right, Power management is still too harsh even with some of the lowered costs. Imo all the % based regen needs to be increased significantly.
    As I said before I think all roles should be able to play from tray if they want but they should also have to invest into Power heavily. That way we have to balance Power and our other stats and make a choice between casting more often and having each single cast be more effective.

    No one should have to sacrifice crits or gear affinities though just to not run dry in solos, that's not fun. The system should be a bit more forgiving just to make playing from tray (or fast clipping) possible at all but also to make it easier for new players to spec for playing from tray (with cheap powers), and also give veterans the possibility to spec for even more Power to play from tray with more expensive casts.

    • I can imagine a build with maxed out Power innate (175SP) and mixed (or full) Power mods in all slots being able to spam medium cost powers with one or two expensive powers every couple of seconds without running dry.
    • A heavy Power build with 100-125 SP in Power being able to either play from tray with mostly cheap powers or clipping fast (think Explosive Shot or Spin Chop).
    • Then a balanced Power/Might build with 75-100 SP in Might and mostly Might or Might&Precision mods for a slower weapon clipping style with SCs.
    • Finally a low Power, high Prec/Might build with 75-100SP in Prec for a WM focused build.

    Same thing for support roles with Vita/Resto/Dom etc instead of Might/Prec.
    • Like x 1
  8. CrappyHeals Devoted Player

    After playing some more and thinking about how having to spec into power affects power regen I don't think it's such a good idea.

    1. Cause we removed having to spec into weapons we dont use to free up skill points so we can focus more on our role but now some are going into power so while we might save some we're still spending them on something not focused on our role really unless your a troll.

    2. This will hurt the everyday person with lower skill points and the LFG people the most. Naturally a person wants to put their skills into the role their playing so most will just focus on that and have low or no power all the time and just end up yelling at the trolls for more power. Then another case people with low skill points aren't going to want to put points into something that's not their role cause they only have limited points to spend resulting in the same power issues. Then you have people who just won't know or are to stubborn to spec for some power leaving them yelling for more power also.

    I get your trying something different and while it seems ok on paper and preforms okish when this goes live it will just be a mess of people with no power yelling at the trolls and is going to create more problems then it solves. There has to be a better way to do this, maybe just standardize a power return for weapon attacks, up the regen for keeping a hit counter, let the trolls dump give more power and take the cooldown off of it. There's many ways you can go about this but I think having to spec for power isn't the best option and like the examples I gave above I see it becoming a pretty big issue with players when it hits live.

    I have to cut this short cause I just got a call and have to split but you prob get the idea of what I'm saying.
    • Like x 3
  9. VioletSorceress Committed Player

    I think reducing power costs all over and shifting some of power regen strength from weapons to Innate in-combat power regen was the right thing just have to see if things add up now.

    I like the idea of Playing from Tray to require speccing into some Power but I dont see why someone who is using Weapons should be forced to spec any Power at all. I think that:

    1. Playing from Tray should require: Criticals (60SP) and a mix of Might(main stat so atleast 100SP) and some SP invested in Power to fine tune power regen. Power regen should require some skill and LO planning but shouldnt be a rocket science like in previous test build.

    2. Weapon clipping should require: Criticals(60SP) and a mix of Prec(main stat so atleast 100SP) and some Might without the need to invest in Power at all. Notice that having to balance between Prec and Might instead just max Might would make tray powers and Supercharges weaker here, throwing even medium investing into Power stat demands into weapon clipping completely throws things off.

    So things should look pretty easy and comfortable for someone with say 200SP+. Which I thing is a fair number since game is being flooded with SP from time capsules now. 2-3 years ago AMs were balanced around 160SP and I think people had plenty of time to farm some extra.
    • Like x 1
  10. mousy New Player

    power cost does not seem to be increasing correctly as we increase are combat rating at cr 32 are powercost divided by power is around 5.5 with no mods or sp or base mods as are cr goes up that number slowly decreases to about 3.85 at cr 173 so we are not haveing to mod power and put power into sp to increase are power efficiency we are haveing to do it just to have to stay as effective as we are as fresh level 30 toons are power efeciency should increase as we progress or at least stay steady it should not be getting weaker
  11. Mepps Sr. Community Manager

    Updated power costs for the next three revamped powers are below:


    High Power Cost
    • Geiger Blast
    • Proton Remedy
    Medium Power Cost
    • Density
    • Fracture
    • Atom-Powered Assault
    • Electron Flare
    • Geiger Beam
    • Ionizing Eruption
    • Unleash Anti-Matter
    • Neutron Bomb (medium cost combo starter)
    Low Power Cost
    • Atomic Reorginization
    • Particle Beam
    • Anti-Matter Bomb
    • Irradiate
    • Radiation Shower
    • Neutron Explosion (low cost combo)
    • Atom Splitter (combo starter)
    • Nuclear Burst (combo starter)
    • Thermochemical Explosion (combo starter)
    • Beta Surge (combo starter)
    Combo Power Cost
    • Atom Fragmentation (combo)
    • Nuclear Blast (combo)
    • Thermochemical Detonation (combo)
    • Beta Flood (combo)

    High Power Cost
    • Stealth: Surprise Attack
    • Paralyzing Dart
    • EMP Pulse
    • Suppressor Turret
    • Vortex Cannon
    Medium Power Cost
    • Battle Display
    • Cryo-field
    • Fear Gas
    • Gauss Grenade
    • Neural Neutralizer
    • Holographic Decoy
    • Photon Blast
    Low Power Cost
    • Cuff 'em
    • Implosion Mine
    • Stealth
    • Thermite Mine
    • Defibrillator
    • Taser Pull
    • Distract
    • Napalm Grenade
    • Stasis Field
    • Sticky Bomb
    No Power Cost
    • Self-Destruct Signal

    High Power Cost
    • Invocation of Renewal
    • Condemn
    Medium-High Power Cost
    • Circle of Protection
    • Circle of Destruction
    Medium Power Cost
    • Soul Siphon
    • Summon: Watcher
    • Summon: Fury
    • Summon: Guardian
    • Soul Well
    • Soul Storm
    • Karmic Backlash
    • Weapon of Destiny
    • Offering
    • Final Ruin
    • Karmic Suspension
    • Soul Barrage
    • Ritualistic Word
    Low Power Cost
    • Rejuvenate
    • Transmutation
    • Boon of Souls
    • Vengeance
  12. stärnbock Devoted Player

    this is my oppinion to PI setup and burst powers:

    setups dont need cooldowns. they are not there to hit hard, if at all!
    single target powers are less power hungry, multiple target powers need more mana.
    i think that this difference is enough to make the cooldowns obsolete...
    it is frustrating to wait for cooldowns and to be unable to setup the PI all the time!

    burst attacks however should do twice (x2!) the dammage after PI is set...
    single target bursts use significant less power than multi target bursts, so:
    different cooldowns for single and multiple target burst powers seem unnessesary to me...
    spamming will burn your power pool, you cant attack if you are out of power anyways!

    please tell me your thoughts and oppinions to this ^^
  13. light FX Steadfast Player

    Well guess im gonna go test atomic but looking at whats above i find it odd the combo now costs power. Cause it didnt before right? As far as i know it didnt. Maybe i just never paid attention. But i always thought the combo had no power cost. And powers like atom splitter combo twice. Is that not happening anymore? Or does the 2nd combo have no power cost? I guess i have to go and test to find out ;)

    And so much focus again on power. I still dont get it. I see this update as power matters instead of stats matter. And im not being rude when saying that. It seems to be the only stat that matters with all of this so far. I dont currently play gadgets or sorcery on live but i do play atomic and will go test and post some feedback. But i can say if im comboing and run out of power its gonna be frustrating. Playing from the tray doesnt mean your power bar needs to be 100% full all the time. Someone said that before and idky someone would think that. U just need enough power to cast the following power. So passive regen just needs to give me enough power while im casting power #1 so i can then cast power #2 and so on.
    • Like x 3
  14. Bose Well-Known Player

    Combo powers have never had a power cost on the combo after the initial cast, the only exception being Jackhammer on earth wherein it charges you power after the 3 combo meaning jackhammer tap melee 1-2-3-4....Your only charged for power after 3. So simple answer being it wasn't like that before, making it odd that it's like that now.
  15. Karasawa Loyal Player

    It was inevitable. It never made sense for the combo extensions to be free on power when they were doing such high damage. It made combo powers (except Earth) super power efficient for their DPS output. The HL infinite combos basically made trollers useless. It sucked that Earth was the only one that required power before but HL, Celestial, and Rage players should probably expect the same treatment soon.
    • Like x 1
  16. Crimson Mayhem Loyal Player

    I just wonder, is fast combo clipping out the window with this? Meaning Rage style 1 power and 1 combo per second. I mean that's pretty much playing from tray already, so with added costs for the combos this will swallow a lot. Hope it will still be possible, I've had high hopes for HL in particular to get back some of that oldschool glory.
  17. KellyCares New Player

    look at it from high to low..try high to low...try wintry tempest, bitter winds and spam arctic gust... like it is now with out the new weapon buff. i tried and got a few gust off. Havent tried since the newest changes couple days ago.
  18. Jacob Dragonhunter Devoted Player

    I already tried it before, The power-regen is still a little bit off to me .

    there's still some points where you need to either stop dpsing, or use weapon attacks.

    If your interested; I was using Ice-boulder strike(Medium) and Arctic gust low. I still ran out of power in boss fights.
  19. light FX Steadfast Player

    Power usage for atomic is way better then ice and mental. Its very unbalanced when comparing atomic to the other 2. If the other combo powers end up like this the result will be dps players will flock to the combo powers. That isnt balance. Thats isnt variety. People will always gravitate to the optimal choice. So a choice on which power to play is still there technically. But its not a viable choice when that happens.

    Also all im seeing with this update is a giant focus on power. U guys seem to have taken the feedback that people gave on wanting 2 trolls in raids and changed the entire game because of that. There was a time when people ran 2 trolls and it was fine. The entire game didnt need to be changed to make 2 trolls happen in raids. There is other content besides raids. And in a solo or duo when u dont have a controller with u people will simply run out of power and have to use their wpn a bunch. Which means playing from the tray will only be a viable option if you're in a raid with 2 trollers.
    • Like x 5
  20. Proxystar 10000 Post Club

    Having spent a bit of testing of both mental and atomic, I have to say it's impossible to "play from the tray"

    "playing from the tray" to me is being able to use powers continually without the use of weapon, when putting all my sp into power and might&power mods I still couldn't play from the tray with mental.

    I was marginally able to play from the tray better with atomic solely because of its combo abilities and thus seemingly lower power consumption.

    This is certainly not balanced.
    • Like x 5
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