Stats Revamp: Power Cost Update 1/11/17

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by Avair, Jan 11, 2017.

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  1. Ash Inferno Well-Known Player

    Perhaps the entire power regen system needs to be changed. Instead of specking into power pool, change it to power regen per second, or something like that. It would be a lot more forgiving than specking 100sp into power.

    Regen, crit regen chance and magnitude. Trollers could give a buffs towards power regen rather than just power dump, they could buff healing and damage out for your group rather just single target de-buffs. It's just so sad that the dev team is so short sighted and focused on cash grab time capsules rather than implementing real and positive changes to the game.

    Really, the possibilities are endless if you have an open mind.
    • Like x 1
  2. ChillCat Loyal Player


    The crystal and soda were for healing, not power. Blocking was intended to counter which is what anyone would do against a boss, AM or not. Weapon usage against the portal was just to get rid of it quickly so I didn't have to deal with the adds. Just because it wasn't pretty or not optimized doesn't mean it didn't work. I think your applying expectations that don't even make sense on Live right now.

    If the question asked is "Can you reasonably complete the content relying on your powers with little or no weapons usage?" the answer is "yes". I never claimed it was pretty or the best solution. Take that for what it is.
    • Like x 1
  3. Mystere Well-Known Player


    I watched the video and your comparison to playing from tray is not in any way close to live. You may think it is. I do not.

    Also, you cannot continually cast powers like on live without running out of power quickly - doesn't matter the content.

    Lastly, try Hades duo and on bosses where you aren't blocking as much as faust - or even artemis at the end. And just like in your Faust fight you will see you power bar drop to nothing in no time flat to where you will have to do other things to wait for your power to come back whether you need to do those other things or not.
    • Like x 2
  4. Black Jaq Devoted Player


    Ok, now you are nitpicking. Even when playing my Gadgets or Celestial toon on live, I hit the portal with weapon attacks. I still use the crystals for my Celestial toon because of the high interruptibility and power loss.

    The reality now is if you BB or Lunge an NPC, you don't have to worry about breaking your AM cycle but you also get power back.
  5. bmce84 Loyal Player

    I'll give some of my details on Electric
    CR 176 SP 170 (could be more but I'm sticking to what they gave us and only upgrading gear)
    DPS (only testing solo content right now as testing group content might be an issue if I'm trying to really see how the power is doing, and don't have a league on test to help, barely seen anyone ever since 1.1 started)

    Loadout:
    Spark Barrage-Shockwave-Static Push-Tesla Blast-Electrocute-Megavolt
    Power-26703
    Might-10223

    51 SP in Might, 51 SP in Power, full crits on both and the rest of the SP is in Dual Wield (no WM) and movement mode.

    So far that loadout has worked outside of boss battles which are very unbalanced, I start with Static Push then Tesla Blast and Electrocute then go Sparl Barrage to Shockwave, then one weapon attack and go back to Shockwave then spark barrage, now most times adds are either dead or very low so I can kill them fast and still have enough power. As mentioned on bosses it doesn't work, I need at least 1 soder per boss and supply drop plus an Orbital Strike (which seems to be bugged at the moment). Like most I struggled on Faust and Artemis, but worse boss has been Pengbot, the adds during the second phase are a big issue since by then Pengbot already has me down to 50% health.
    • Like x 1
  6. Mystere Well-Known Player


    On live though, you can complete Faust and Artemis without using soder or backup. We use it cause it makes it go even faster. On test, I purposely did not use soder, crystal, back up etc when fighting faust and artemis and at 173 could do it pretty easily. My issue is POWER. You run out of power so quickly on them that you had to use weapons, or do other things, like block, or dodge and avoid as you wait for power to come back. So yes, you can complete that content pretty easily on test even at 173 but you run out of power quickly and either use weapons to fill in gaps or block or dodge til power is back. (still - after third test build).
    • Like x 2
  7. Sable New Player


    Ok. Here is what you said. Bold added.

    *Edit: Added Underline to see it better.



    Sorry but you were not mis-quoted. Not trying to be a jerk but here it is....

    Your sentence, according to English grammar equates to "it was very doable and very preferable to do it that way" or "it was very doable and is in fact ideal." If you meant that it was not ideal and not preferable, then you should have said "it is very doable but not ideal." The "if" you added before "not ideal" dramatically changed the meaning.

    All that said, you said you could play from the tray. I don't think anyone was demanding you have a full power bar the entire time as that doesn't happen, even now on Live. You will always be down some power playing from the tray (even down to around half power) but it replenishes fast enough, barring breaking out from CC stuns, that you will never run out of power. You can continue to use your powers non-stop through the fight. Granted, if one is fighting adds then one may gain a full powerbar from baubles / bubbles, depending on your powerset's AM.

    Thanks to the current Live Server AM system, "playing from the tray" means, all things being equal, that use of power is not an issue for seeing a fight through to the end. Use your powers as much as you want, it will be there until the mob / boss dies. (Unless a Dev comes and says otherwise, this appears to be common meaning from everyone I've talked with on voice chat, in league, in-game chat channels, etc.)

    The fact that you needed a breather and used weapons on the portal shows that you were not playing "from the tray." You ran out of power. That is not ideal to me for a self-sustaining power mechanic. Yes, you completed the content in the video. But there was added time that did not need to be there. But you still had downtime with no power and taking breathers for power, be it from blocking or using a soder or crystal.

    I can understand choosing to use a weapon attack to take out the portal to remove the adds quicker. I have to do the same on my Munitions toon. (My Munitions loadout has zero effect on the portal so I have to use my rifle if I want to destroy the portal ... otherwise I have to deal with the waves of adds.) On my Ice toon, I do not have that problem and I use powers only to take out the portal and Faust.

    Anyway, moving from the current setup on Live where you can play from the tray ... to the playstyle in your video seems like a step backward. To me, more time is added in on cooldowns and power regen than seems necessary.
    • Like x 9
  8. Derio 15000 Post Club

    Character: Derio
    CR: 166
    Power: Electricity
    Instance/Zone: Typhons Monster Invasion open world missions.
    Feedback:
    I have 79 SP invested into power, all the crits, and might and power mods and health and power mods along with reserve tank to a total of 29k power in dps gear.

    Overall I feel that investing in power via skill points and mods is useless compared to live due to the power cost. There is no way you can play from the tray even with the recent changes. At least as far as electric goes. You have to use a weapon even with the power you receive from the blue bubbles.

    Is the play from the tray style only available if you choose tier 1 power( ie. powers that have the least power cost)? Because using a mix clearly does not work even with investing heavily in the power stat. Some players reported that they can play from the tray via mental, so is electric power cost out of whack compared to other powers or are they just using tier 1 powers.

    Eventually I just gave up and went back to classic style and clip weapon attack with powers.

    Playing from the tray is not optional. Even taking an energy soder to increase power pool to makeup for the lack of skill points does not cover it.

    Can a dev comment on their definition of playing from the tray? Because this is different from live by a long shot
    • Like x 7
  9. Black Jaq Devoted Player


    I hear what you are saying. I feel trying to do a polarized loadout for play-from-tray just doesn't flow like some of the AM's did. It might be more feasible for when you have a controller to power you. And for the record, I don't feel AMs should have been completely sustainable without a controller.
  10. stärnbock Devoted Player

    I think that PI setup powers should have no cooldowns, low dammage outs, low power cost for single targets while higher power costs for multiple targets. Powers enforced through PI schould do twice as much dammage than normal... Bursts dont need cooldowns aswell, power cost should be low for single targets and high for multiple targets, so: cooldowns not nessesary! Cooldowns make sense for dammage over time powers and buffs, however: theyr cooldown should be as long as theyr effect is active... Theyr power costs should determine how fast you can use them again, not theyr cooldowns! Not sure about shields and such, but i think: why not give it a try: make cooldowns on shields only so long for how they would hold without getting attacked and let us test if it is enough for the shields aswell to completely rely on theyr power cost for them to get ready to get used again. COOLDOWNS FOR POWERS ARE OBSOLETE!!!
  11. BumblingB I got better.

    I just did some testing myself. I gotta say, I do feel a difference, BUT you still run out of power unless you just use a low cost power over and over again w/o doing another aoe PI setup. It's really feeling like if you REALLY REALLY want to play from the tray, you HAVE TO go full power in EVERYTHING. Which, would result in just lowered damage.

    Instead of their definition, I'm more interested in their set ratio. They say equal sp to cr. So at 166 cr and 170 sp, I should be golden.
    • Like x 3
  12. stärnbock Devoted Player

    Also: i think you should replenish health and power twice as fast while blocking... Just a thought: everyone hwo experienced a fight in real life once should know what i mean... I allways thought on power to be like a stamina bar. Therefore, i would suggest to devs to go to a boxing gym and try sparing with experienced fighters to get a feeling for it and it might help you ppl to get some ideas to implement while working on the stats revamp...
  13. CrappyHeals Devoted Player

    I wrote this in the other power thread but i'll post and update it a bit here
    So after playing some more and thinking about how having to spec into power affects power regen I don't think it's such a good idea.

    1. Cause we removed having to spec into weapons we don't use to free up skill points so we can focus more on our role but now some are going into power and while we might save some we're still spending them on something not really focused on our role unless your a troll.

    2. This will hurt the everyday person with lower skill points and the LFG people the most. Naturally a person wants to put their skills into the role their playing so most will just focus on that and have low or no power all the time and just end up yelling at the trolls for more power. Then you have people who just won't know or are to stubborn to spec for some power leaving them yelling for more power also. IMO its going to be hell to be a troll with this system playing with the everyday person outside of your league.

    I get your trying something different and while it seems ok on paper and preforms okish on test when this goes live and everyone gets their hands on it it will just be a mess of people with no power yelling at the trolls and is going to create more problems then it solves.You also have to watch that you don't make regen to good cause then one troll raids will always be a thing and it looks like your aiming for a two troll setup. I honestly think Updating the troll role is the answer to power not giving people their own power back. For solos duos and open world non group activities you can just give people a strong troll buff or some passive power return so they have some power but in 4 and 8 man group content the source of power should come from the troll or we'll have the same one or no troll runs we have now.

    You can do things like make the trolls instant power give more power, maybe it can even go to all group members or make P.o.T the main source of power back that way as long as you have a troll or trolls you should be pretty good. Instant power will still be needed but not as much giving trolls more flexibility to debuff and CC. Then for 8 man content you could make the trolls P.o.T stack but only once. Reason for that is you wouldn't want the P.o.T to be super strong cause then we venture back into one troll territory. A single P.o.T should only be strong enough to keep a 4 man group going with some dumps every now and then and when times get tuff, but when you have two trolls and the P.o.T stacks the P.o.T should be supporting a good portion of the power not like now where its a pretty small source.

    The above are just some quick ideas but i think if some time was taken we can come up with something much better then self power back and things like that. I highly frown upon self power back cause it always can lead back to eliminating the troll role in some content and i just hate the group compositions we have these days. I've had enough of dps universe and i think other have as well.
    • Like x 2
  14. Crimson Mayhem Loyal Player

    It's much better now but still too harsh. With 35k Power I could play from tray for around 20 casts. With 50k it was significantly more, somewhere around 28-30. That's mostly without even using Breakouts (which are needed more now that we can't CC as much in solo/duo content). Still, for just cheap powers this seems over the top. 50k Power means that I'm sacrificing crits, using top tier mods, Soders and Proficiencies and I still run dry after half a minute.
    I imagine the average Titanic Trenton player wouldn't go to such lengths with any role. And when I throw everything I have into Power, I'd like to use some medium or expensive powers every couple of seconds instead of still only being able to spam cheap ones.

    That said, I tested a quick combo clipping (Explosive Shot) loadout again with 35k Power and I actually could keep up and running as long as I didn't have to use Breakout (that was with Acrobatics Breakout innates activated). So that's significantly better now. Imo regen from powers and Breakout should be increased a bit more to allow for an average player to play from tray and for veterans to optimize for playing more expensive powers from tray, without getting disrupted significantly with every Breakout.

    Not everyone will spec heavily for Power to the extend of allowing them to play from tray so Controllers will still be necessary and wanted for Power healing (if nothing else). Those who do invest so much should be able to not run dry regardless of their teammates.

    I agree with this suggestion. PoT should split after 4 and stack once to allow for (and encourage) dual trolling. Content still needs to be designed around Controller CC to make them more useful, and Debuffs still need to be buffed, but this way there would be a use for two Controllers in any content for Power alone.
  15. CrappyHeals Devoted Player

    One problem is players that have high skill points specing more power and being able to use a more fast paced and frankly better loadout/rotion is they will far out damage and preform other roles much better and efficient then those with lesser skills and while i'm usually for players with more skill points doing better this will be a major imbalance and there will be many many complaints. There needs to be a progression gap but not like this. Non troll players simply shouldn't have power back options they should have a troll or a passive power back if in a solo or duo. To many issues will arise from this system.
  16. CrappyHeals Devoted Player



    Yea that pretty much would guarantee two trolls in a raid if things were adjusted right and at the same time steering away from the battery troll playstyle some do not like.
  17. Alrighty Then Loyal Player

    Considering it took 2 Sodas and a Crystal for Power back. Yeah.
    Total run over 13 mins for a solo, and the end was accelerated by hard hitting backups and Orbital.
    The instance needs fixing and so does Power back.
  18. Alrighty Then Loyal Player

    Yes! Considering that he is a Super Great player it should not take so long, and he should not be out of power consistently.
    What about the average players?
    How will they fare?
    What about the poor players?
    Will they just give up?
  19. Electrizzaro Loyal Player

    I am interested in getting back on test to try some things out on Electric again.

    I would love to hear the views of a Dev on a couple of things that seem to be echoed here in many different posts though.

    1. Play from the tray- I take that as being able to play just powers without running out of power period. Meaning that you regen just as much power as your powers cost. Seems like a pretty simple thing to do. IF the devs have a particular suggestion for play from the tray then they should let us know. I understand that they may not want to give us a specific loadout but they should have something in mind like for example. PLAY FROM THE TRAY consists of 4 t1 powers and only 1 t2 power. I would assume that when they were trying to figure out how to get PFT (play from tray) into the game they had something like this in mind otherwise how would you even start to figure out what the power regen should be? If no t3 powers should be in the PFT then that should be stated.

    2. For PFT it would be nice it the testers were given at least a basic info on how many sp SHOULD be speced into power to PFT.

    3. If we as players are supposed to have 3 different playstyles (PFT, Weapons only, Powers and weapons mixed) then IMO they should all be viable and do about the same damage as each other. IF that is NOT the case then only 1 of the playstyles will make it to live and all the work done on the others will be a HUGE waste of time and resources. This ties back into number 1, please devs give us some basic ideas on LO or SP specs or something so we can test accordingly and help t the best of our ability.

    Last thing and just a thought. It may not be ideal but it may be a starting point. I know that powers have different animation times, dovetails, etc. It may be a good idea to adjust them so all the t1 powers have the same animation times, dovetails, and damage. I mean you have already done the power cost why not do the rest. It may go a long way into the balancing act. Like I said before it is just a thought.
  20. CrappyHeals Devoted Player

    13 min isn't a terrible time people just need to get used to not going 123 boom and the instance is over. Also i know he was just testing things out but theres much better things to use then that so you can't really judge a time when trying some things out.

    I do agree though that the power isn't to hot if playing from the try but imo thats fine. Back in the day we had no power back in solos and duos and managed just fine. Everyone has just been spoiled with AM's power back, its ok to run out of power in content like this you just have to learn to manage it and use a weapon.
    • Like x 1
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