Stats Revamp: Overview and Philosophy (READ THIS SECOND)

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by Avair, Dec 9, 2016.

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  1. Canadian Justice Well-Known Player

    I'll start off with my biggest and almost only issue with the revamp so far.

    The messaging of what powers you unlock as you level is not good at all. It wasn't until level 23 that it dawned on me that I should have a few new powers to use by now. Up until that time I was using my initial loadout that fills up as you level. Even something as simple as "A new power has become available!" would go a long way in preventing this type of thing from happening.

    While I don't have an issue with the current cool downs and power costs it looks like there are many people that do have an issue with them. I see this as a great opportunity to add a few new skill point sinks to help alleviate the issue.

    Those issues aside, I'm loving how this revamp is shaping up. There are just so many different styles of play possible now and so many more moves per power available, I can't wait to see how Fire will be. I can see myself using a weapon combo heavy build for solos and duos and a slightly more power heavy build in alerts and raids. Rather than mere costume changes, I can now see armories becoming even more useful.
    • Like x 4
  2. Krys Ptoleny Ii New Player

    A few things . . .

    This was supposed to be in part about getting away from cookie cutter load outs by using the AM which some people for some reason could not figure out . . . but now you will use a cookie cutter load out with no AM? Power return, weapon buff, supercharge builder, execution, and a supercharge . . . wow, what selection! I get to pick ONE power in the tray...ooh I know....robot sidekick! This is no different except now no matter what you do you will be with the low people on the board. If damage is based on animation time everyone will be equal. Great! Plus, battle tanks and battle trolls and battle healers . . . it's bad enough when a dps won't pick up because he is trying to be number 1 on the scoreboard. . . now we'll have tanks that won't pull, trolls that won't put out power/debuff,(this is common already in pug groups) and healers that won't heal,(also too common in pug groups until they need healing themselves) because they are "helping damage". It was bad enough before this, but now that they will be close on the score board . . . it encourages poor play from people who already have difficulty playing the game.

    1. Create a training level and tell them which powers to use in their roles or now...force the load out in training at level 30 now that they have all powers. Reset their power tray while in there so they can see what to do.

    2. Why don't you just have the weapon buff start the power return? At least that would open up another slot in the load out.

    3. NO supercharge builder...they should all work at it equally well or it forces a power in to the load out.

    4. No move should do extra damage based on health of enemy if you are trying to get away from people using the same load outs.

    5. Also, increasing cool down times to encourage using the new mods to lower the cool down times . . . just wrong.

    6. If you want to encourage 2-2-2-2 put some stuff in there where people have to activate both circles at the same time based on role or way more adds come out and slow down the raid.

    And one question: now that CC effects seem to be disappearing except for trolls, are there still going to be extra damage between powers? . . . . like encasing an enemy and another attack doing more damage? . . . if so . . . then only troll powers will be able to get that on their own unless you use items as they will be the only ones who can root/encase enemies.
    • Like x 4
  3. hotsizz1e03 Committed Player

    So i tested it out.. 5 year vet who took a break from the game since august, awaiting for this update to hit LIVE... IM ABSOLUTELY ECSTATIC to PLAY AS ELECTRICITY AGAIN!!!!!!!!!

    1) My personal SUGGESTION; ever since WM came into the game, animation times were extended (i think to about .8seconds??) now that its(WM) pretty much being removed(as far as Crit dmg goes) remove all of these long winded animation to speed the game back up again!! Not necessarily saying to unleash jump clipping, but gives us back our old fast gameplay without necessarily adding back jump cancelling.

    2)Love the tank idea, of not blocking!! Making tanks get in on all the action.. All support roles need to be in the action..

    3) Trollers still feel like a battery... Maybe its time to rethink how Instant power or POT works.. Maybe adding some additional effect besides stat boost.. I personally feel Trolls should've Kept their AMs... Makes them unique and various loadouts to work with while giving out power.. Kind of promoting battle trolling.. I think after 5 plus years.. thats what trolling should be about.. Maybe an EMP Supercharge that disables NPCs/players out of power for certain amount of seconds instead power heal over time debuffs.. which idk how that is useful for NPCS??

    4) This pretty much the similar to number 3.. Heals feel a bit slower, possibly due to animations, but as well its not entirely fun.. Unleash the arsenal of moves that healers can utilize as heals while dealing damage.. For example. i always that "ELECTROCUTE" cloud should be Heals over TIME... i cant be the only to think that.. Thats a dope power(top 5 power move in the game) and healers should have that too..
    Or you can make it, as you lay HEALS Over time, % does DOT damage...(might or prec based on power)

    5) Give SUPPORT roles their PROPER PERSONAL DEBUFF... what i mean is that..

    • Tanks should have essentially 1 or 2moves(NOTHING MORE) that Debuff that mitigate DAMAGE or a dmg reducer debuff(SINGLE TARGETS ONLY, dont want to make it too op)
    • Trolls have access to all Debuffs(ALL AOE DEBUFFS)
    • healers have access 1 or 2 moves that debuff heals over time (SINGLE TARGET)
    • Like x 2
  4. beardrive Active Player

    "If you run out of power, take a break from using tray abilities and start weapon attacking" So, as a might-based Hero who uses superpowers exclusively I am expected to use weapons the way a precision-based hero might? It would follow then as a precision-based hero's weapon breaks from use he is required to use superpowers to repair his weapon? Ouch. Um, only a villain can steal your superpowers.
    • Like x 4
  5. Soul ReaperX Well-Known Player

    I believe they are making all powers might based but don't quote me but on a different note

    That 2016 wishlist the first 2 is a disgrace lol Thats why there is elite but the rest is cool Aye we are all inclined to our own opinions I cant hate....or can I
  6. Soul ReaperX Well-Known Player

    OK I just got off test server, I was using electric and I could barely enjoy the game its just too much weapon swinging and key smashing for me my hands hurt. I feel like i'm forcing myself it feels like work. But on the greater side I tested the iconic sidekick robot to try and help me out lol...its still a waste of a sp just complete garbage smh.

    I just want to be able to play, kill things and keep my team alive in a reasonable manner. I want to be able to do things myself if i don't have the required role in the raid or instance or duo with me. I love the idea of being somewhat independent if i have to be. Everything is just so much more "If you don't have the role you best be ready for a sweat fest" now. Just not my cup of tea. But if these changes can save the game, go on without me keep fighting lol

    Just remember, this is only MY opinion and I also use celestial I feel better with a high chance of getting interrupted and doing no damage at all than button mashing any day so electric isn't even my kinda power play style.
    • Like x 4
  7. Aeon New Player

    I tested ice this weekend and to me the biggest problem was the feel of combat, right now fighting from the tray is limited because of longer cooldowns and in my opinion seems to be what the new tactical mods are intended for but even with the ten percent reductions from those, i believe combat will still feel almost turn based. Since right now all we have had to test is the tutorial what im going to say next is pure guess work but i imagine if it stays like this raids will be full 2222 simply because all roles will have to take turns executing their jobs. With the power regen it would feel more natural if it was passive.
    As other players have said there is too much weapon use, im an earth player on live so im use to having to use the weapon but its not the right fit for every power set, keeping with the theme of DCUO superheroes should be able to use their powers frequently not waiting for twenty second cooldowns.
    • Like x 2
  8. Celestial Powers Committed Player

    I actually thought of a great idea regarding the self power ability, instead of making it an actual ability why not make it like electrics safety net like an innate ability but always on you? Have it kick after a certain percentage and let it regenerate the exact amount it does now and have the Cooldown be the same as it would if u pressed it from the tray.
  9. VioletSorceress Committed Player

    TBH, I was hoping for Elec AM features to mostly stay. AM was putting things together even if the damage was not there, now all feels disconnected and chaotic.
    • Like x 3
  10. SkullGang Devoted Player

    Should we expect to be playing at end game with 180sp+ for us to be able to play from the tray effectively ? Due to these long cool-downs not really sure how playing from the tray will work. Keeping yourself with enough power I don't see us having an issue with, but if we have to deal with 20 and 30 second cool-downs im assuming once we have higher stats the damage will be well worth the time ?

    Yeah it seems like the weapon usage has increased a lot with not much flexibility in terms of playing from the tray.
    • Like x 4
  11. Caesar's Lion Dedicated Player

    For everyone who think AM’s dumbed down the game, what’s their thoughts on how hard it is to press tap tap tap hold? Seems like we gonna be doing that a lot.

    If I woke up tomorrow & suddenly couldn’t handle end game, I very well might still sub as I enjoy the character building, concepts, etc…This is severely limiting in this regard, being forced to use a weapon on each & every toon. It doesn’t look nearly as good. I get this is early days on test but this is a concept/vision the Devs have. I hope they aren’t too proud to reconsider before it’s too far down the line.

    What is so hard about putting a cap on EMP, Mass whatever, the ice 1 which hits hard based on a percentage of Might? Something similar with Precision for pet based powers re the damage the pet does. This single handedly makes stats matter, gets damage under control, brings weaker powers like electric & nature into line, & brings support damage closer to dps damage due to dps damage being nerfed. It also makes other loadouts more viable because the cookie cutter loadout isn’t so OP.
    • Like x 6
  12. Magnificent Loyal Player

    I played up to level 11 last night (Ice & Staff). While the player is doing lots of damage (which is as it should be at the low levels) I found the actual levelling to feel slow and cumbersome. I eventually realized that while I was getting a new power every other level, it took away something for me to do thus the only feeling of upgrading my character came from the loot drops and the scant few Skill Points I was able to rack up.

    Another issue I found a little frustrating was the inability to move down the weapon tree until a whole horizontal level was finished.

    I like the extra power regen for using powers at the low levels. Combine that with the power regen from defeating enemies and the increased damage and it gives a player much more of a feeling of being powerful. What I would really like to see incorporated with this update is for Block to increase Power regen when out of combat like it does with Health.

    The extra damage, while welcomed, feels underwhelming in the solo instances (Brainiac ship and Grodd) because of the low number of mobs to fight (although this is probably more on me than actual setup since I've been playing since Beta).
  13. Roocck Committed Player

    LMAO the more I read the more I laugh..... :)
    • Like x 1
  14. LadyLightning Issue Tracker Volunteer

    I have some UI suggestions, for which I couldn't find a better place.

    1. If you can, grey out any button where a player can't spend skillpoints at his/her level. This would help to let new players know what is important to look at their level and reduce the information they get at once.
    2. It would be nice, if the "Press K to spend your skillpoint" would not only appear upon every 2nd level up, but whenever we have unspend skillpoints.
    3. I've always longed for something like this, but there was never a good place for it...but now there is! Can the traits menu please get a button with "available weapon combos" which just displays all weapon combos and variants in a list?
    4. If you can, provide in the loadout area for healer and damage a detailed explanation of the role. Players shouldn't have to go to the forums or website to learn the basics.
    5. Please add for each role in loadouts a button "suggested loadout". This would give new players a loadout to start with. Especially when they are at level 30 and have more options than ever before, I wouldn't be surprised if many would just get lost in the possibilities, when all they wanna do is play a controller properly...
    • Like x 4
  15. stärnbock Devoted Player

    electro was once a dot power. it seems devs could not handle the balancing of dots, so they scratched them completely.
    mental was a 12345 power, while shortcuts and invisibility spiced it up a little. also the bugs where kinda fun.
    ice was one of those mobile powers you could move while attacking (still the least fun to play for its 1234555...).

    dot stacking, 12345, mobiles, combos, pets... AM (at least) made powers feel different with theyr mechanics.

    now they are all the same: set up PI, clip with power back, clip with buff, do the burst, do the SC filler (everything else is in cooldown), use SC as soon as ready... .get away with super charge fillers, power back and self healing powers! just give us an automatically SC, mana and health regeneration without taking loadout spots!!

    i am curious how they handle combo and pet powers when they release them to test server
    • Like x 1
  16. KobeEl Active Player

    I go with BumblingB on many points here. First, big thanks to all the Dev and Comm Team for this week-end, you all been real active and we didn't except that much from all of you, you guys also have right to some days-off / week-end. ;)

    So first let me start with the introduction, I've played this game for 4 years now, non stop, never took breaks, saw and played every changes you made to the game. So you can imagine how impatient I was to see this big gameplay modification hit the Test Server.
    I'm also a troller, for the past 3 years, mainly because, most people don't like this role and see it as the useless role in this game. Which has always been a shame since most of the MMOs haven't got that kind of role in their roster. But personnaly do like it real much, and I never saw it as energy battery role, but really as a support for the groups in alerts without a tank, or a raid with so many adds spawning at the same time that a tank couldn't take all at once. A support Role, which it's supposed to be.

    Lately the live game has been made so easy that troll were only required in raids or elite alerts (sometimes), that is thanks to the Power Regen mechanic. Which in some ways, wasn't that bad for the game, some powersets burned too much power to be efficient without self power healing. But like most things, it needed balance.

    So now to balance all that we got the Stats Revamp.
    I do like the effect it has on the leveling part, didn't take longer than before to complete but the bosses were thougher. And I liked it, bit more challenge. (I'll speak more about it in the dedicated thread)

    And then, there is the post leveling content. It's only then that we realise most of the changes. Solos and Duos are out of the subject, cuz imo it's mostly damage required. The most important gameplay is in the alerts and raids.

    So clearly by reading the threads and playing on test, we realise that you are pushing the 2-2-2-2. Which I don't mind, I remember complaining about the game being too easy when we were able to finish new content on the first day with 5-1-1-1. So I get it, and I'm with you on that.

    But what I don't like is the means you've put in place to push the 2-2-2-2 : which are mainly increasing cooldowns and power cost on all powers and roles. Which imo, killed the entire thing. I mean you based the entire revamp on that idea, and so trollers, healers, and tanks are the firsts victims of it, why so ?
    Alerts ! You've made the troller role in the need of another troll just by increasing the cooldowns, but in alerts what ? We go 2 trolls ? PoT last 6 sec out of 12 sec CD, so in raid it's fine, you got the other troll taking the PoT. But in alerts ? Going 2 dps 1 troll 1 heal or 1-1-1-1 same thing, It's impossible to keep up. Let me correct that, we as troll, have full power bar, but the rest of the group is out of power, and we can't do anything cuz all the powers in CD. You've put 2 mechanics to balance that, which are the self power healing in each role and the pwoer back on weapon attacks. Here are my thoughts on them :

    - Power back on weapon attack, useless, the % is so low that even only long combos like HB beam or WM Braw + MA are actully revelant enough. (Since, as troll I got plenty time to do nothing, I use it all the time so I'm full power, but the others roles can't do the same).
    - Having people be able to self power heal can help out if the troller is short, so at first we think, why not ?. But it also remove one of the main role of the troller, which is give power back to his teammates. On the thread you say that it's only for those who like to burn tons of power, but no matter the loadout you use, you burn too much power to be able to play without it. So it's a mandatory power in a loadout for every role and that's sad because that's a slot that could be used for a more important role based power. But even if you used it, The power cost is so high for all the roles, that even using the slef power healing and having a troll in an alert isnt enough to keep all the group powered.

    The troller feels useless, by increasing troller's power healing CDs and adding this mechanic, you severly reduced the trolling role part. And after that, when we read/realise that you removed most of the CCs in the same time ... What's the point of being a troller anymore ? You killed it even more, it's been 3 years that I play troll, and for the first time, I DONT WANT TO PLAY IT.

    I really think that if you keep this new mechanic on power regen, you gonna kill the entire game, because, it not only frustrate every single role for not having power, it also slow down so much the game, that it is not even playable.

    So ok, we don't have the SPs we have on Live, stats we get from the stats trees will boost us, but still, if the base of the game itself is weak, what can we expect for the rest ?

    Like I said at first, I like the ideas expressed by the stats revamp, I just think the means used aren't the best choice. And what even bother me the most is that you went all in for this update, cuz I'm pretty sure it required a lot of time to do all those changes.

    But simply for the 2-2-2-2 combination, imo it's should be based on the content itself to require the roles, and not roles being inefficient to "solo role" the content.

    For the power regen, just remove it. It's a legacy mechanic from AMs, which aren't there anymore, so it should also be remove. No damage bonuses, no power regen. Just by removing the comb counter, you change the troller regen system, which can be enough for a 2nd troll requirement.

    Cooldowns: there are all way too long, for some powers (PoT, Heal power, troller debuff, tank pulls, shields), i get that it's part of the standardisation of the abilities, but it makes the game way too slow, and it never been what DCUO was about. It's a fast and reactive game.

    And for the rest (Standard Abilities in general, NPC scales, SPs, supercharges, power trees, tooltips, combot counts), I wouldn't change them, it's good work.

    (Ok maybe change the supercharge gen on Mental, cuz troller have been hated for years just by using Thought Bubble :D )

    I'm openned for discussion on all the feedbacks I made ofc :)
  17. Great Architect Dedicated Player

    From test, I'm trying to work out whether the powerback power is there for when you run power-hungry solo or duo with no troll, or whether it's "working as intended" as a must-have slot for general use, given the cooldown on Troller powers?

    I've seen people complain that all new loadouts will be basically BIGHIT1, BIGHIT2, Weapon Buff, Powerback, SC Charger, SC. My question is, is that a result of people being used to DPS Universe, and not considering the presence of trollers? If so, shouldn't there be a shield in there as well, since no healers either?

    I have to admit that on test I was running a heal or a shield and the powerback in the sub-30 alerts because they were wall-to-wall DPS in PUGS. Even a group that I was invited to (and so I hoped was going to be balanced) was all DPS on arriving in the instance (although we had all three support roles there). I often run a hybrid Celestial build on live, since there are so few balanced groups in PUGs, and I have to rely on my own resources to keep myself alive. So I think I probably went into test with that mindset, so I can see how ingrained it has become in myself.

    To be honest, though, I rarely had enough cash to keep respeccing from one role to the other, and my testing was hampered by that. Of course I wanted to top the scoreboard with an electric DPS for the first time in my life in the game :D, so I went ahead as DPS until I did that, but not being able to switch SP cheaply from Critical Attack % to Critical Heal % was painful. Perhaps in future we could ask for respeccing to be free on test, or the best possible solution, a free armory vendor?
  18. VioletSorceress Committed Player

    2 things that are wrong in this update are the removal of so much Crowd Control and balancing things around cooldowns.

    About Crowd Control:
    The preferred CC effects are Stunning and Rooting (Ill throw here Encasements too). These effects should be available only to Controller power sets and only while in Controller role. Tanks, Healers and Dps should only have available Pulling, Pushing, Knockdown and Knockback at their disposal.

    Removing so much CC from Mental or other troller power sets will only diminish controller role even further. PoT is getting moved to a non- stunning power and the staple Defense debuff - Phantom Flames is losing the stun effect too. Those are all awful changes. If anything all those abilities should keep their CC effects available in Controller role alone.

    About Cooldowns:
    DCUO has an action based gameplay and we have only 6 power slots for out loadouts. Adding to cooldowns will only bring frustration and ruin active aspect of the gameplay. Most RPG games have long cooldonws for the hardest hitting abilities but they also have like 15+ loadout slots. Please dont try to implement things from other game genres into DCUO. These long cooldowns have to go...

    In our game with the exception of Tank Immunities, there should never be a power which cooldown is longer than the duration of its effect!
    • Like x 7
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