Stats Revamp: Overview and Philosophy (READ THIS SECOND)

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by Avair, Dec 9, 2016.

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  1. Here2Help Devoted Player

    Increased cooldowns is slowing down the game too much which is what DCUO is all about. It's why most of us are still here. I get that the devs want to push 2-2-2-2 but it's not the right way. Instead reduce resto, reduce vit, reduce defense or whatever. Make people run 2-2-2-2 because they can't actually heal players back up to 100%, not because they need to wait on cooldowns.
    • Like x 16
  2. Fies Committed Player

    Mind sharing you vision regarding "playstyle" also? I ll stick to the DPS-role to elucidate my question (for now). Currently on "live" the DPS-output depends on the ideal execution of pretty set rotations. Depending on the Power said rotations have different requirements regarding "input-speed" and timing (among others). Are you going to retain the uniqueness of the different Power-types playstyles? What can we expect when comparing the pace of combat current vs. future? What are the factors of efficiency/success (with seemingly long cooldowns in mind) apart from using an ideal loadout?
    • Like x 2
  3. eanur Well-Known Player

    not sure which section to put this in but can we please have out skill points shown in the traits Menu. Its slightly annoying to have to go through different menus just to find out how many skill points we have or have not spent. Im pretty sure on live right now I can press K and it will show me my Skill points just like that
    • Like x 5
  4. Cyro Committed Player

    After sleeping on this i have thought of a few more things to say. I would like to start off with thanking the devs. You stayed late on Friday and came in on Saturday just to get this up on test, mepps even helped me get past lex - thank you for your dedication, it means a lot to me and to the community even if they dont say it.

    Now to the less nice part. So it seems as though you have balanced support roles around their damage capabilities which quite frankly, is idiotic. If im tanking and my group dies from adds not being pulled fast enough my group isnt going to say "well he may not be the best tank but his damage is amazing". No. They will kick me. In the cele guide they have said a few times something along the lines of "battle healing is great but if you reach a point where youre a hindrance to the group you need to stop". Right now support roles arent doing their job as well because their dmg has increased. Now part of this comes from the fact that you want to force two of each roles which i fully support however - having LONG cooldowns to cull the damage output of support is shooting support roles in the foot. As a support doing your job is paramount, damage comes second. You need to stop balancing support roles around their damage. How is it a game that is nicknamed dpsuniverseonline by its players has decided to balance support roles for its damage capabilities! When reworking support roles the thing to remember is no one will care how much damage my elec healer will do if i cant keep people alive.
    Support first damage second

    In my previous post i said ices pull have too short of cooldowns...opps meant ot be too long

    I would like to make a request. Devs if its possible can we get the new stats menu/ionic menu for the next gu? I absolutely LOVE the new system and i have been longing for it ever since i saw the livestream.
    • Like x 8
  5. Kid Multiverse Loyal Player

    Devs, please scrap this system. We wanted stats to matter, not for the game to be trashed and rebuilt completely.

    Long cooldowns and artificially protracted fights ARE NOT GOING TO WORK. DCUO's great strength is its fun, fast combat. To dump molasses into the gears is a radical step back and will do irreparable damage to the game and the health of the population.

    Can you please enlighten us on the thinking of slowing things down to such an extreme length, crippling playing from the tray, and clipping the wings of support roles?

    Also if this system goes forward, will all marks and rewards be doubled or tripled because of how much longer instances will take to complete?
    • Like x 10
  6. Pults Loyal Player

    Amen, the only way I'd see having two controllers would be if one was there for power and stuns and the other for group buffs and debuffs. One would focus on Vit and the other on Dominance which would have an impact on group buffs and target debuffs.
    I want to see mechanics that engage player into trying new things instead of cutting down fingers and letting everyone play with only two thumbs and calling it "fun".
    • Like x 3
  7. DanXVII Committed Player

    I agree we're too OP and something needs to be done to push towards a balanced group setup... but extended cooldowns are NOT the answer, please do not consider keeping this in it will kill combat and completely suck the fun out of support roles.
    Lower Resto/Vit etc or increase support role power costs to make more support roles needed like the game used to be.
    • Like x 5
  8. Pale Rage Active Player

    I noticed that precision based combo powers are going to be changed to 'might' base, which could potentially be quite costly to those who play those particular powers. If you consider all of the parts required to create Olympian mods, generator mods, etc, the switch is going to be quite damaging.
    So my question to the Devs is, are you going to allow those precision based powers the opportunity to:
    1. Change their precision mods (including generator) to might mods workout having to use recovery kits?
    2. Give a special Recovery kit to those players that will recover not only exobytes, but the materials required as well? (Obviously anot expiration date would be needed for this kit as well).
    3. Force these powers to farm more materials, buy recovery kits, and start the new modding from scratch?

    I understand you perhaps are not quite that far, or already have some idea in regards to how to compensate for those requiring precision over might; however I'm very curious of this. The stats revamp is the reason that I've returned to the game, after roughly 18 months. I'm hoping that I didn't return, just to have spend extra money to re-create the Olympian mods I've recently built.
    Thanks in advance.
  9. Here2Help Devoted Player

    I brought this up early on when they revealed the change to combo powers, and Mepps replied with this:

    We'll just have to wait till Mepps does have something to share.
    • Like x 1
  10. MrB Dedicated Player

    Guess I'll post this here too.
    • Like x 2
  11. Black Jaq Devoted Player

    So I just reached level 30. I did my final missions CAO Dam with the use of any powers and I did Shadowlands in healer role. I shouldn't have used Arc Lightning because it also did damage, but I basically had very little problem with doing either and not using powers. My conclusion is either that health is far too low in general or our weapons do way too much damage. Not using any weapon buff or trinket I was still able to one-shot many adds in the Shadowlands. I am using Dual Wield.

    But here is the more disturbing conclusion, our powers are basically a side note now with these long cool downs. As a DPS, I'll be better off running a power I can clip weapon attacks with that doesn't require a PI while running a Super, putting Robot Sidekick on my loadout, and just buffing my weapon attacks. With all due respect, I can tell a lot of time was put into this, but it feels like time wasted.

    All I wanted was CR differential to go away, AM damage to go down, and a revamp of the stat trees. That would have made me so much happier. I just don't know what to think at this point. I hope you guys have a Monday morning meeting to go over our feedback. Send some of the testers surveys to get honest opinions.
    • Like x 5
  12. mexmex Dedicated Player

    If we would need to have, a dps buff + shield + power regen + supercharged, we will only have two slots to choose the abilities we want, isnt that more restrictive? Unless you provide more abilities with these buffs, it will end up far more restrictive than what we already have.

    One solution is to have some innates for power regen, and dps buffs at least, instead of being forced to get those from our abilities, that way we can really create more unique loadouts (otherwise remove those buffs completly, so people dont need to worry for those). This innates might actually work with SP as the rest of our stats too. So people can choose to invest in more than just one stat.

    It is also a good idea to have more option viable for POT or debuffs instead of being forced to use only one for such purposes, lets say for example that Terror tendrils can cast an amount of POT but since it also might work as a stunt too for some adds, the POT should be lower than resonance which will do nothing else but POT push, even a third one option for instant power to the three more in need telekinesis but this one can stun one enemy. This is what I see as variability and players can choose the better way to go. And it also can justified the longer cooldowns

    Hope you guys consider something like this to make it possible an actual play from the tray
    • Like x 2
  13. krytine Loyal Player

    I agree with most of what your saying but I don't agree with getting rid of trolls personally I am not liking the extreme cool downs
  14. Kid Multiverse Loyal Player

    The greatest part about AMs was the ability to play from the tray. This is a SUPERHERO mmo. We want to use our powers. Weapons should be an extra, not a main course. Deeply unhappy about this.
    • Like x 6
  15. Avair Lead Systems

    I have been reading these posts and discussing some stuff more in depth with people over the weekend. I wanted to pop in here and tell you all thank you for testing and we will take your feedback into consideration. We are definitely having meetings constantly about feedback and will do some adjusting.

    I want to note that we set up testing like this so that we could get feedback, then iterate on it and get prepared for another round of testing and feedback. I think that doing tests in small bursts will create a better feedback/ iteration loop. Thanks again for all of the information and we will be getting back to work on it on Monday!
    • Like x 15
  16. Revafall Well-Known Player

    Best dcuo dev, just saying :)
    • Like x 2
  17. light FX Steadfast Player

    Its nice to see u guys in here communicating. Because in the past there was a lot of silence sometimes when it came to testing changes. Thanks for explaining how u guys are doing all of this. I hope the communication continues. I also hope u guys reconsider some of this stuff. All the long time players have been through this before. Where some odd choices were made and the feedback showed players were not fans of some decisions which resulted in the population shrinking. I just dont wanna see history repeat itself. Imo slowing down combat is not the answer.
    • Like x 4
  18. Here2Help Devoted Player

    Lovely! It's nice to know that our time on the Test Server and then reporting back is not put to waste as it has been before. Me, and the majority of others on the forum, hate the increased cooldown aspect of the update and hopefully that'll be a major talking point for your meetings.

    If you haven't yet I suggest you take a read of this thread:

    There's plenty of useful opinions and feedback in there and not just on the forcing of 2-2-2-2 group setups but the Stats Matters update as a whole. Of course this thread is filled with that sort of stuff as well but it's important you get as much feedback as possible before discussing the future of the game at your meetings ;)

    Thanks again for your time and helping explain what's going to happen when moving forward.

    • Like x 1
  19. light FX Steadfast Player

    Agree 100%. When i tank troll or heal i dont not care about my dmg, literally ever. Im there to tank, or to heal or to control. The dps are there to burn. If i do some extra dmg as support just through my gameplay then great. But i do not focus on it. Never have. I fear this is coming from the people who run solos and duos in support role and it takes them forever. When the simple solution is just press T. And if its being done to encourage more 2-2-2-2 in raids then imo its going about it the wrong way. The problem with hybrids and support dmg is people focus way too much on the dmg part and dont do the support role part and the group struggles. We have all seen this.
    • Like x 1
  20. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    Hi Avair, I appreciate your response on a Sunday evening. It definitely means a lot to us that you guys are working from home.

    I just want to mention though, there is a lot of feedback that has happened over the years that was ignored when implemented by the development team by players only to be undone later. Please take some of what we said with an open mind. There is a lot that hurt the game that we don't want to see happen again. We got a considerable amount of "this is for your own good" updates that just hurt.

    What I'm saying is, please consider feedback with a very open mind. Make changes more fluid. Originally when things hit test, it was nearly impossible to revert due to close to launch. From what you are saying, this sounds like to not be the case.
    • Like x 9
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