Stats Revamp: Mental

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by Shin-O-B, Dec 9, 2016.

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  1. Penryn Loyal Player

    Thank you for the information. Could a more descriptive term than "DPS" be used under Current Effects then?
    • Like x 2
  2. spack2k Steadfast Player

    anything will do just ppl dont like encasements u could keep the "thought bubble" as a generater but remove the encasement effect of the ability, dps cant do dmg and tanks cant pull them and if mental players will rely on it for SC ppl will rather tend to avoid mental players.
    • Like x 3
  3. HoiiowDreamz Dedicated Player

    At first I was gonna suggest Phantom Flame but then I remembered that PF was good for dps so I don't want that aspect touched xD Said ok, well if we leave it on Thought Bubble, there's the option to pop it using Pyro. But when I tried it on adds, it pops it immediately so the encasement is no longer a problem but the Pyro healing debuff doesn't even get applied. So I feel like I'm spending power just to remove the encasement and not doing anything else of controller-worth. Not sure if this is ok but could we try:
    - Bubble is SCGen, DefenseDebuff
    -Pyro is HealingDebuff, short cooldown
    -Phantom is DefenseDebuff, long cooldown

    - Bubble is DefenseDebuff
    -Pyro is SCGen, HealingDebuff, long cooldown
    - Phantom is DefenseDebuff, short cooldown

    Switch the SCGen to Pyro instead of Bubble, and switch the cooldowns of pyro and phantom to keep the SCGen frequency the same and it allows us to use defense debuffs a little more frequently.

    If a mental dps or troll has a comment/problem on something I'm missing with this ^ please respond. I'm just throwing out ideas that don't conflict with my personal playstyle of mental but I don't want to impede on others.
    • Like x 1
  4. spack2k Steadfast Player

    SCGen has now a longer coldown than before ? if so not good all SCGen abilities across all powers should have same cooldown.
  5. HoiiowDreamz Dedicated Player

    currently, it has the same cooldown as PF. Which means if Pyro gets switched to the same cd as PF, the cd stays the same. Pyro is a shorter cd than both of them.
  6. bmce84 Loyal Player

    I need some clarification, does vitalization affect your capacity to self power heal or not?, because Avair said it didn't but now you are saying we might need it. To me it seems all the changes favor support roles and hurt DPS roles, I know you guys want more roles in content and for it to be harder, but hurting a role shouldn't be the answer.
    • Like x 1
  7. MrMigraine Devoted Player

    One of the reasons I love Mental Controlling (and have since Beta) is that it fits my button-mashing playstyle. My loadouts consist almost entirely of quick-casting powers with very short cooldowns. I spec into a lot of Vit because I know myself - I spam a lot. And that's fun to me.

    While I can seemingly overcome a blue drought with more Vit/Power, the thought of having to wait 12 seconds for an ability to cool down is downright stifling to me. I hope that this is reexamined. I also hope that Controllers will continue to feel like Controllers as opposed to Batteries.

    Another observation: while I can see the philosophy behind the very short PoT duration (trying to encourage 2 Controllers in Raids), it seems like it's going to cause Alerts to run dry rather quickly...
    • Like x 1
  8. light FX Steadfast Player

    Ok thanks for the clarification on the shield supercharge. I can say again tho i dont ever remember the shield reflecting dmg back at the attacker. Again someone please correct me im wrong on that.

    As for the PoT thing well its clear that yes its shorter. It was 20 seconds now its 6. But im confused on the value of power will depend on your vit stat statement. Its already like that on live. The higher your vit stat the higher your PoT tick is and your recharge. So the only thing that is different is the duration of the PoT tick. I see it as u guys changed this to force 2 controllers into raid runs. And its not very fun just spamming PoT every 6 seconds.

    Lastly i do know its very early in the update and process. Im just reporting what im seeing and how things feel. I hope it doesnt come off as rude or anything like that, not my intentions. I just like to get to the point. But my concern is the seeing things differently part. I guess my question would be how? Someone compares trolling to live and what it is on test atm its clearly different. PoT duration changed, stuns gone for the moment, longer cool downs on everything, etc. I see it as something used to be this and now its that, it was changed. So how can the changes be viewed differently? Seriously asking. Just trying to get a better understanding.

    And why this concerns me is in the past with big updates like this we were told our feedback was important many times yet when the overwhelming feedback was against something sometimes there was silence and the changed was pushed through anyways. I am not trying to call out the dev team or anything like that. Just voicing a concern. And all of this is slowing the game down considerably. 1 of the biggest positives for a very large % of the community is how fast the combat system is in dcuo. Slowing it down will probably not go over very well. I hope u guys really take a hard look at this. Thanks for the reply btw. Its good to see u guys in here being active and communicating :)
    • Like x 1
  9. Jacob Dragonhunter Devoted Player

    So like I've said in the other thread, I've leveled up my mental toon to 30 on test and adapted to some of the Mental Changes.

    Concerns regarding survival; the lack of healing.
    On Live Servers, Psychic resonance will heal your HP bar for 7 ticks of healing over time. This makes solo content not too difficult to survive because you can heal yourself while your shields are on cooldown.

    On Test Server: This function has been removed completely, so if you wanna run solo content it's gonna be pretty struggling to survive. You'll have to soley rely on Shields and the healing supercharge.

    The shield it's self doesn't last very long in DPS role, but I think with more dominance being unlocked sometime in the future this could change.
    The Supercharge also doesn't heal you very much, averaging around 75 per-heal. I'm guessing Restoration will affect this.

    Cooldowns regarding Telkenetic Shield, it's manageable but if you're about to die and have no shields or colas available; your dead simple as that.

    DPS wise:
    Mental has potential, I see that. But my main gripe with is feel it's too cluttered up with Burst Powers and not enough Dots.

    Back in the day, Mental Players could make use of great dots and burst: Using Mass Terror+Pyro+Thought Bubble for the dots, and then using weapon combos with a burst power.

    I was kinda hoping this update would be a lot like the old mental playstyle so I could experience it, but it doesn't look that way.

    Thought Bubble is currently bugged and is lacking any damage outside of the intital Burst.

    Super-Charges also feel a bit under-whelming; Especially Bolt-Barrage.

    Controller wise:
    I'm a bit worried and a bit curious as to what's happening here. Most of the Crowd Control Abilities were removed, which just makes me wonder are Controllers gonna be unique or just DPS that can debuff and power up other DPS?

    This change will also hurt content that was designed with stuns in mind such as A&B and L&W, so that will require some tweaks to the mechanics.

    Overall I'm still looking forward to the updated mental powerset, it's just got some flaws that concerns me.
  10. MarvelUniverse Well-Known Player

    In general, as many others said, cooldowns on a majority of abilities are too long. Prime example, Telekinesis. At lower levels it just meant I didn't even use it.

    The opposite for for the shield. It needs to last longer, even if this means it needs an extended cooldown.

    Invisibility: This has always been a problem I thought was going to get fixed.

    If I am stealthed, I should be able to sneak around enemies until I attack them. If they can just see and attack me anyway, what's the point of that power?

    What could be the most fun mechanic in the game becomes useless in PvE.
    • Like x 1
  11. Sage-Rapha Steadfast Player

    A few things:

    Reduce cooldowns considerably.

    Telekinesis would be better as a 4 second cooldown. Won't be spammed but won't also be restrictive.

    Thought Bubble should be changed. An encasement being a SCGen isn't very good. Cooldown would feel better reduced to 8 seconds and reverted to a damage over time ability.
    I would actually appreciate Psychic Resonance having a dual function as PoT and SC Generator. It makes more sense to be honest.

    Telekinetic Bolt would feel better at 6 seconds exactly.

    Horrific Visage would feel much better with a 15 second cooldown. Maybe 12 seconds.

    For DPS role:
    How would you feel about Bolt Barrage being stronger?
    It's kinda bad even at point blank range and its quite a risky move.
    I would like this ability to have more impact in general.
    • Like x 1
  12. TheDark Devoted Player

    The self power heal, the power ticks that go directly to you, scale off a % of your max power pool. That's what Avair told us. When Shin refers to Vit, I'm pretty confident it is in reference to the actual PoT innate of Res scaling with Vitalization. That innate gives 8 ticks of power to everyone in the group. It gives a different amount from the Self Power heal as well. I brought it up in my posts before so I'm just waiting for confirmation from them too.
  13. MarvelUniverse Well-Known Player

    What about the shield as supercharge generator?

    Is Telekinetic Bolt working as intended? It seems to have a very limited range, and even when I waited for groups of enemies it most often only hit one. Telekinetic Push seems to hit just as hard, has a longer range (max range!), and hits all enemies.

    So what exactly is the incentive for using Telekinetic Bolt? Especially given that when I set it up for a power interaction with Telekinesis, it doesn't really do much more damage than Telekinetic Push. I can get off two of those in half the time, for the same effect.

    Half the time I'd use Telekinetic Bolt and it wouldn't hit anyone because I kept forgetting I needed to be basically standing on top of them.

    This has two problems:
    1. The animation implies it's a wide hitting, ranged power. So it's not matching what the ability actually does.
    2. It's clearly intended to hit multiple enemies, but has no range, so you most often CAN'T hit multiple enemies at once.

    Consequently, it wasn't useful at all.

    I basically just ended up using Telekinetic Push a lot, and my shield.

    I like that you are aiming for a balance between fun play again and the current spamming methodology (which I hate), but I think this has gone too far in the other direction.

    When playing a game where I have super powers I still want to be able to use those powers fairly frequently, and a lot of these cooldowns are prohibitive to the point of making powers not be useful.

    One of the stated aims is that players should be able to choose any abilities and have them be workable yes?

    If mental remains like this I'm worried that we will end up with another narrow field of useable abilities.
    • Like x 3
  14. Revafall Well-Known Player

    So from what I understand with what you're saying is, I could spec full Precision and just have a character just based on weapon fighting and throw in a few powers here and there and still be as effective as everybody else, with the only minus that I'm way too close to the tank? :)
  15. bmce84 Loyal Player

    But if it's group that isn't the same, as a dps I can't invest in vit/power/might (or precision) and still have a viable rotation, it just doesn't work without a lot of compromises to SP and mods. As I said before it seems that their plan is to eradicate the DPS role.
  16. bmce84 Loyal Player

    Keep in mind all powers (including combos) will be might based after stats, so you would need a lot of Precision to just be able to compete with the rest. It seems to me the whole intent is to make weapons the only power back mechanic outside of self power heal and trolls.
  17. bmce84 Loyal Player

    Animations probably need more work, and I'm guessing it wasn't a priority as balancing the actual effect of the abilities.
  18. MarvelUniverse Well-Known Player

    The animations are the same as they have been since the mental revamp. There's no work to be done.
  19. Penryn Loyal Player

    I'm not sure if Mass Terror and Mass Levitation are intended to be staple crowd-control powers. Here is a demonstration:

    The stun effect on Mass Terror lasts for less than five seconds.

    Compare that to Gag Glove from the Iconics Tree:

    The stun effect from Gag Glove lasted much longer. I find Gag Glove also works well as a Dazed PI applicator since you don't have to worry about the cooldown.

    Mass Terror and Mass Levitation have 22 second cooldowns. The PI doesn't even last as long as what the powers take to cooldown.
    • Like x 7
  20. Beta Cell New Player

    I would like an answer on this as well.
    We have the "Stats revamp read this first" thread and the "Over view philosophy" thread but there is no clear message as to how stealth fits into DCUO. Because Stealth is the main tool of BAT MAN (arguably the most popular DC hero) at the moment, I feel that this is kind of important.

    In City of Heroes and Champions Online (the 2 games most similar to DCUO) you use stealth to set up a melee burst damage attack.
    In Wildstar, the first attack on exiting stealth you get a 100% chance to crit and for the next 3 sec after that you have a 8% dmg boost and a bonus 20% chance to crit.
    The intent behind stealth in the above games is fairly obvious.

    In DCUO the meager bonuses that invisibility used to grant are gone and you can use a mod to turn invisibility into a "shield":confused:..?
    This new update is throwing so many long standing DCUO tropes out the window so I can't even use what stealth used to be in DCUO to provide context to my feedback.

    As a player what am I supposed to make of this? How am i supposed to give feedback about stealth in a game that is throws most of the MMO stealth tropes out the window or turns them on their head? I have downloaded the test client specifically to test this, but with so little to go on, all I can do is speak generally.
    1. Stealth does not make me feel like a badass like batman.
    2. Its not fun.
    3. Its not clear how the devs want me to use it or how its supposed to work.
    • Like x 3
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