Stats Revamp: Mental 1.1

Sorry if I'm derailing further but I'm just curious about how you felt about AM's then. Avair did say that tray-only would be possible but I'm kind of wondering how that can be true if we're still going to need Controllers to provide power.

Requiring a role to give you power versus being able to maintain your own power pool even while continuously spending it seem mutually exclusive. This was one of the problems I had with AM's.

I liked AMs. I did. Some were really poorly implimented. Some were just kind of lazy (pets). But they were definitely what I wanted out the game. I don't mind going back to weapon power clip, but I prefer to use my tray. Which is why I'm trying to find a middle ground here on what is required for it. I want "options", but last version of test was showing differently. After dailies on live, I am going to test todays patch.

Oh and I still think power and controllers should not be. But whatever.

Edit, by that I mean power feed shouldn't come from controllers.

hello everyone, So i know when you use mass hysteria you lose movement mode, dont know if it's a bug or intended but just went on test and use it against penguin and my toon for some reason started flying and it was the entire fight i even flew to the final room. Oh and my toons movement mode is acro

Also, on testing side mass levitation should have shorter cooldown, it's too long for a pi apliccator

I can confirm Mass Hysteria gives you flight. Is it intended? If so, it's a good 100% SC.


So I tested a couple of builds with power only. I can safely say... it's not possible to do tray only. On the other hand, it might be in a raid. The downside, I don't know how good you would do in damage compared to a weapon power clip.

I also tested the changes to cryo and pyro. This is a nice addition and makes for some good weapon power clip options. Pyro though, since it has a longer cooldown and a higher power cost, not so effective for dps. On the other hand, a controller would have it useful as a healing debuf.

On the note of Debufs, can defense debufs be moved OFF of horrific visage and tk pull? They both have a massive cooldown and one is a pull. This makes them not very helpful in a group situation. While some of the other ones are 1-3 second cooldowns. The debuf also cuts shorter than the cooldown too. So I'm assuming 10 seconds vs 12 seconds.

I like the changes to this build. It does "feel" better, but in the end. I still think a from tray loadout is like iconic powers on live are. "Flavor" but not "viable". Weapon power clip seems to be the best option.

I wouldnt come into this thread usually but found something in the hotfix to note:

In contrary - even though clearly mentioned to be changed in the future as a possibility - from the original Stats Matter in-depth explanation regarding Power Interactions:

Do we have to assume that going forward from here on that all powersets that contain a not powerset-related Power Interaction (or minor PI, idk how you guys would call this) get the same treatment in the future?

While I'll meet halfway and say that you should be able to do tray only if you want to, the assumption that you should be doing as much damage as someone who's clipping a lot and using their weapon is one that I'll disagree with. 1234 should not be a competitive top tier rotation.

Update:

Revised my dps build taking into account last night's patch with PI and power cost adjustments. I also revised my loadout to go for an all Dazing PI with Invisibility. Happy to report it is possible to go tray-only...sorta.

The overall build - see my previous post here: https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dc...-revamp-mental-1-1.282418/page-8#post-3876418

Revised loadout based on player and Dev feedback - Mass Lev, Tele Push, Tele Bolt, Telekinesis, Invisibility, SC (Invisibility - Ambush: Sleep, Tele Push)

The DPS Method - Start in Invisibility and cast Ambush: Sleep to start damage and initiate the Dazing PI. That puts you right back into your main tray. Cycle through powers 2, 3, 4, 1 in that order, essentially trading off between Invisibility and Mass Lev depending on which is still in cooldown.. While Dazing is active, I was spamming between Tele Bolt and Telekinesis.

*WARNING* I'm not claiming this is an ideal loadout. MORE TESTING NEEEDED

Observations -

1. Taking this approach, I was able to keep my power bar 1/3 full or more during boss fights when not interrupted in the Hades duo without using any weapons moves aside from the occasional lunge.
2. Interrupts definitely threw me off, so cola consumption became necessary when power and health went too low.
3. Overall combat felt sluggish or slower but that's to be expected
4. I was not top dps but that very well could be because of the order I was casting
5. I took full use of all the HT amenities (Orbital Strike, etc) whenever possible


Conclusions: I'm satisfied that it is possible to go tray-only with Mental in this state. It's not one-shotting, it's not fast but it does work. If enough folks get on, I'd like to eventually test this out in a raid, but the basic question of "can you go tray-only" in end game content with this power regen setup has been answered

Was on test. Tried mental dps loadout. I don't know what devs want do with powers, but for now I see that it's mental from 2013! Dox era!
I think raids would be like tank-heal-3 troll-3 dps agaim.
25k power, 9k might
Old 2013 Loadout: menace-MT-flames-shock-mlevi-tkpush
Power enoght for all cycle m-mt-f-s-ml-tkp.
Flames and shock on terrorized target crits 15-25k, tkp on dazed 15-25k too.
All what need is to find range hold with good dmg and hello DOX

Actually because it is Pre-AM, it is a nice consistent test providing 6 adds and 3 different bosses at 111CR..
I've run it now at CR 173 in many various Mental Modes High Power 30,000, High Might, High Precision 15,000.
Using mostly power, mostly weapons. It really doesn't matter what loadout I use for Mental Troll or DPS
All runs are lasting about 3:55 to 4:05. With AM it would take 2:18; so yes we are much much weaker.
Considering that they are looking for balance. It seems like they found it.
I have found that the most fun way it to play is to play like PVP; mostly weapon WM sprinkled with Stuns.
That eliminates the Power issue and eliminates the power frustration.
I did not use backups, sidekicks, or Orbitals. There was no need when using AM's and would not be a fair comparison now.

I decided to compare my Regular Mental Toon on Live at various CR to see how it's comparing to the Revamp.
My live toon at CR139 WITHOUT AM takes about as long 4:15 to complete Spark of Parallax.
My live toon at CR119 WITH AM completed Spark of Parallax in 2:55.
So my live toon at CR 119 with AM is much more powerful than my CR173 in the ReVamp.
We've been told this is ReVamp is going to be great.
I'm still not seeing it.

1. cr scaling
2. you're not supposed to have the same or more burn compared to live. it's supposed to be less. that's intended.

Bug Reports

Terror Tendril Power Cost
The patch notes indicate that Terror Tendrils had its power cost lowered. However, I'm still measuring it at 300 base power cost. That is the same as what it was before the hotfix. The damage output was lowered, but it still costs the same.

Power Interaction Bugs
1. Terror Tendrils is still an unreliable PI applicator. Example:

It took 3 attempts to inflict the Terror PI on the Cyclops with Terror Tendrils

2. I've noticed NPCs dropping the Terror PI after only a few seconds and not 12 seconds. I am unable to reliably replicate the issue.

Horrific Visage
This is probably doing more damage than what is intended. At 9479 Might, Horrific Visage is doing about 10,500 damage per hit.

Telekinetic Push
Telekinetic Push is still receiving double damage ticks whenever the Dazed PI is setup.


Invisibility Form
Invisibility is still listing "[*GameEffect*] - Self" under Current Effects on the F1 menu while Invisibile.

Bastion
TheDark is reporting inconsistent shield damage cap numbers for Bastion:
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dc...revamp-mental-1-1.282418/page-11#post-3877787

Not 1234, no. However, a tray-only loadout that takes advantage of PIs and/or other skills or knowledge of the game should be both possible and competitive with clipping. If a player can build a chain of powers based on power consumption, PI application and cooldown duration that allows them to weave a ton of tray abilities together to do continuous damage, they should be rewarded for it.

As far as AMs go on live, I'm with BB. I love the idea of most of them. What I don't like is being forced into using certain abilities to take advantage of the system. My main is (was) Ice and I seriously ******* hated spamming gust all the time. If we can achieve similar results using a wider variety of abilities that we choose ourselves, I'm all for it.

For my Sorcery toon, though? This new meta of using weapon/power clips is exactly what the DR ordered. It fits my character perfectly and means I can finally banish Fury FOREVER. Drop my DOTs, spread some Bad Karma and beat the hell out of everything with my magically enhanced baddie-be-good stick. I can't wait (if I ever come back.)

Feedback
I figure this is more of a content design issue, but the "controlling" aspect of being a Controller feels useless when enemies have almost immediate breakout profiles.

Here are a couple of examples from Typhon's Monster Invasion Zone:


and


In every test I ran, these guys were breaking out very quickly. Any crowd control effect that lasted more than a second caused a breakout. Some of them were even breaking out of the brief pushback effect from Telekinetic Push.

When the breakout happens, the NPC gains immunity to crowd-control powers for a decent time duration. That really takes away from the "crowd-controlling" aspect of the role.

These examples I posted above are just a couple of open-world examples. I've encountered numerous other common open-world enemies with these short duration breakout profiles. This is leading me to expect that most enemies in raids are going to have these short breakout profiles and trying to apply crowd-control effects to them isn't going to be possible.

You realize every single clipping rotation takes advantage of PI's, involves knowledge of the game, and cooldown management for continuous damage. That part of the argument is invalid, which leaves a difference of skill required for execution as the difference.

I updated my previous "cheat sheet." Let me know if anything is wrong and I'll update the guide.

This information is focused on power interactions, base power costs, cooldown times, and short power descriptions.

Sets Up Dazed

• Ambush: Sleep - Used from the Invisibility Form. Stuns a single target for up to 6 seconds. Medium power cost. 1 second cooldown.
• Mass Levitation - Ranged group PI Applicator and levitation stun. Costs 200 power. 12 second cooldown
• Telekinesis - Ranged single target PI applicator and levitation stun. Costs 150 power. 1 to 2 second cooldown

Uses Dazed

• Telekinetic Push - Ranged attack. Does roughly half the damage of Telekinetic Bolt. Does two ticks of damage if PI is setup -- this is a bug. Costs 200 power. 1 second cooldown.
• Telekinetic Bolt - Ranged attack. Does roughly twice as much damage as Telekinetic Push. Does ~10% more damage if PI is setup. Costs 500 power. 2 to 3 second cooldown

Sets Up Terror

• Mass Hysteria - 100% form transformation supercharge that lasts for 30 seconds. Grants 10% crit chance and damage boosts to weapons and powers. Uses Flight movement mode and spawns ghost pets. Inflicts Terror PI on nearby enemies when the transformation is activated.
• Mass Terror - AoE DoT and stun centered around the player. Causes 6 second stun. Costs 350 power. 12 second cooldown.
• Terror Tendrils - Cone-based PI applicator that stuns for 1 second. Does double damage at melee range. PI application is buggy. Damage division maybe bugged too. Costs 300 power. 1 second cooldown.

Uses Terror

• Ambush: Pain Blast - Used from the Invisibility Form. Usually crits for good damage. High power cost. 18 to 19 second cooldown.
• Psychic Shock - Ranged attack. Does roughly half the damage of Phantom Flames. Does ~10% more damage if PI is setup. Causes 1 second stun. Costs 200 Power. 1 second cooldown.
• Terrorize - Single-target Execute power. Does more damage when enemy health is less than 35%. Medium power cost. 5 to 6 second cooldown.
• Phantom Flames - Ranged attack. Does roughly twice as much damage as Psychic Shock. Does ~10% more damage if PI is setup. Costs 500 power. 2 to 3 second cooldown

Uses and Inflicts Frostbitten

• Cryokinesis - Ranged attack that roots two enemies. Can also cause encasements. Does ~10% more damage if PI is setup. Costs 250 power. 1 second cooldown.

Uses and Inflicts Burning

• Pyrokinesis - Ranged short-duration DoT that stuns a group of enemies for 1 second. Does ~10% more damage if PI is setup. Also listed as an encasement breaker, but I haven't tested this yet. Costs 300 power. 2 to 3 second cooldown.

Offensive Powers with No Power Interactions

• Menace - 33% Precision and 33% Weapon Damage buff for 6 seconds. Costs 300 power. 12 second cooldown.
• Psychic Prison - Pulse-based AoE DoT centered around the player for 6 seconds. Stuns enemies in Controller role. Costs 300 power. 5 to 6 second cooldown.
• Telekinetic Pull - Single-target pull. Costs 300 power. 12 second cooldown.

Supercharge Generator

• Horrific Visage - Ranged single-target power that causes form transformation on target for a few seconds. Any enemies that approach the target are also transformed for a very short duration. Costs 300 power. 12 second cooldown.

Utility Powers

• Grandeur - Shielding power that detaunts. Usable while controlled. Has a lower damage cap than Telekinetic Shield. Costs 150 power. 18 to 19 second cooldown.
• Invisibility - Form transformation that hides the users and provides secondary loadout bar. Grants a crit bonus. Costs 0 power. 18 to 19 second cooldown.
• Psychic Empowerment - Group power dump. Medium power cost. 3 to 4 second cooldown.
• Reflect Pain - Shielding power that reflects a small amount of damage. Costs 300 power. 18 to 19 second cooldown.
• Telekinetic Shield - Shielding power. Usable while controlled. Has a higher damage cap than Grandeur. Costs 200 power. 18 to 19 second cooldown.

Supercharges

• Bastion - 50% group power restoration and shielding supercharge. Usable while controlled.
• Bolt Barrage - 50% offensive supercharge. Does terrible damage.
• Convalesce - 50% healing supercharge. Usable while controlled.
• Mass Hysteria - 100% form transformation supercharge that lasts for 30 seconds. Grants 10% crit chance and damage boosts to weapons and powers. Uses Flight movement mode and spawns ghost pets. Inflicts Terror PI on nearby enemies when the transformation is activated.

Healing Debuffs

• Psychic Shock - 1 second group stun. Costs 200 Power. 1 second cooldown.
• Pyrokinesis - 1 second group stun. Costs 300 power. 2 to 3 second cooldown.

Defense Debuffs

• Horrific Visage - SC Generator and target transformation. Costs 300 power. 12 second cooldown.
• Telekinetic Pull - Single target pull. Costs 300 power. 12 second cooldown.

Damage Debuffs

• Cryokinesis - Roots two enemies for 6 seconds. Costs 250 power. 1 second cooldown.
• Phantom Flames - No stun capabilities. Costs 500 power. 2 to 3 second cooldown

My original point was that spark was never updated on live to reflect AM damage and is stupid easy there now. It's an interesting instance to test with... But it's no good at all to compare it to live because it's much easier there than intended

If you have read my next post; I had ran it in live without using AM.
I ran it at CR 139 no AM and it took 4:15.
That almost comparable to Revamp CR 173 fully Modded.

It may be intended, but it's dramatic. Stats Matter was supposed to make things better.
I'm still waiting. If it's intended to make things worse; that's Stupid.

Substitute "tray power" for "weapon combo" and the level of skill becomes moot. Unless you really think Spin Chop is really hard to pull off...