Stats Revamp: Ice 1.1

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by Moja, Dec 19, 2016.

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  1. eanur Well-Known Player

    I understand why you guys simplified the texts to cut down on all the clutter but is there any chance you guys can put back in the values from each stat of how much it increases % wise. For example on live it says something like every 7 might increases your dps by 1% at level 1 and 70 might at level 30 but now on test it has none of those descriptions under each stat.

    The reason I am asking this is cause I think I can pretty much play from the tray now as ice dps so now I want to tinker with my build using different skill points in certain stats (like less in power and more in might) and different home turf mods. Right now the max damage mod increases my damage by 2% but maybe I want to remove that and put a different mod in to have some of my skills immune from counter and then put more might in somewhere else for example in my gear mods. But obviously it would help if I knew how much extra might I would need to add to my character to make up for that 2% damage loss
    • Like x 1
  2. Crimson Mayhem Loyal Player

    Yeah, I think stat formulas should be made public again at least once they're finalized. I can understand that they aren't shown while it's still on test and getting changed all the time though.
  3. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    Is there a reason why they can't do both? Like battle drone has a base value and scales off vitalisation. It would also fall in the stats matter changes.
  4. Derio Steadfast Player


    What stat would you have them go off of?

    Pets like the watcher obviously restoration but their damage, would it be might or precision or both?
    It seems like making them stats would be too much and add too many balancing variables, so it would be best to leave it at CR.
  5. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    Since changes to how our own powers work I'd suggest might and power for damage pets and restoration and power for heals. Leave trinket pets as is just tray pets.

    As for balance, pets don't scale other than cr. So even if it is a good part of your rotation you can't tweak it to do more. Which is one of the problems that battle drone had and was fixed.
  6. Crimson Mayhem Loyal Player

    I'd prefer if pet damage didn't scale with Might or Precision. That would inherently make them worse for support roles. So far damage pets have always been a decent way for supporters to contribute some damage without needing to spec heavily for it.
    I wouldn't compare it 1:1 to Battle Drone since that one was just completely ineffective for the role it was designed for. Pet damage doesn't have that problem since it works as intended for all roles. That is, unless you want pets to do significantly less damage in support roles which I would understand but not agree on.
    • Like x 1
  7. Jacob Dragonhunter Devoted Player

    1. Ice boulder strike.
    2. I figured out what the issue is. If Frost-blast doesn't crit the damage output kinda sucks. Frost-blast also has a lower crit rate compared to Ice boulder strike
    I tested these 2 powers out against the Shade Warrior Mobs in gotham under-siege.
    [IMG]

    As you can see the average damage out between these two is fairly close. Now when Frost-blast crits as seen in the "Max" It does output more damage. But I don't rely like the fact that we have to rely on it to crit just to hit high numbers.

    Considering how interruptable frost-blast is in a boss fight, I feel like the damage isn't worth the risk.


    3.Snow devil vs Bitter winds, with and without PI.

    • First off Snow Devil's damage is a bit weird, I tested Her without and With the PI and her numbers are inconsistent.
    • Snow devil without PI: [IMG]
    • Snow devil with PI:
    [IMG]

    As you can see, her average DPS went lower even though I used the Frostbite PI(Used Ice boulder strike to apply it)

    4. Bitter winds without PI:
    [IMG]

    5. Bitter winds with PI(Disregard the Ice-boulder strike, I was using it for sheer PI purposes)

    [IMG]



    As you can see, Bitter winds is more consistent through out and Crushes Snow Devil in Duration and Total Damage out.






    TL;DR:
    Frost-blast is too reliant on Critical Hits to do High damage output, and isn't worth the risk atm.
    Snow Devil is inconsistent and Gets out-performed by Bitterwinds, In my opinion she needs to scale with our might versus our combat rating.
    • Like x 1
  8. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    I understand your idea if you base it on live right now. (Example would be swarm does same damage in healer and dps role.) But with this update, all damage has been brought way closer no matter what role you are in. So that damage would be the same base value for dps or role, but if you are speccing for a specific role, you would get a bonus. It falls in line with the update's overall "stats matter" theme.

    It would be the same as an electric healer using arc lightning. He does damage based on his current stats, but if a dps did it, he would do more. The values are not changed, just the bonuses for being in that role.

    I'm not saying lower the damage on the pets. Just make it more in line of a "power" based on your current power set. So trinket pets, not being a power, would not be included.
  9. Moja Developer

    @Jacob Dragonhunter: for Ice Boulder Strike vs. Frostblast, your sample size is too low to derive accurate crit rates. Crit rates are identical across all abilities (with the few exceptions of places where we artificially enhance it, such as select from-stealth attacks having increased crit chance).

    For Snow Devil I have no idea what's going on in your test, because there are no crits and the variance is way higher than it should be. Normal variance is +/-5%, with a ~10% bonus for PIs, which is exactly what we're seeing internally. Same issue for Bitter Winds. The only thing I can think of is that your test case is being altered by outside variables, such as the target NPCs blocking or gaining damage reduction through parts of each test. For a quick check, just watch the fly text and see if anything weird is happening on non-crit hits.

    Snow Devil's per-tick damage should be lower than Bitter Winds, since its duration is longer. Bitter Winds also gets an extra boost from its slightly longer dovetail and its "field" classification (which assumes only partial uptime).
    • Like x 2
  10. Rokyn Dedicated Player

    Thanks for the explanation on that. That's great information to have. Just to state this, I would correct Jacob on the whole Ice Boulder Strike thing. It's definitely not doing more damage than Frost Blast that's for sure. But it is doing more damage than the other abilities in its power cost tier. It does more damage or as much damage than the melee ability of Frost Slam. But Frost Slam has a 12 second cool down while Strike does not.

    And regarding the crits in his test, pets in DC Universe Online do not generate crits at all. That's what you're seeing with his log there. We use the site dcuolog.com to generate graphs and displays of our logs.
    • Like x 2
  11. Jacob Dragonhunter Devoted Player

    Alrighty, I went ahead and went a different Testing route.
    Test location: Iceberg lounge at recommended cr 166.



    Results:
    I was watching the "Fly text" and I noticed immediately what was wrong in the boss fight. I went up against Pengbot Maximus and this would happen: There was a number of times that Snow-devil wouldn't attack the boss at all unless I was in a very specific position. that might've had something to do with the "Black holes" that appeared through out the fight, but I'm not 100% sure on how to reproduce.

    Another thing that may have skewed up my results is the fact that Snow-Devil takes a little while to breakout when it gets CC'd. So I was missing out on damage.

    When she actually wanted to Do DPS: Her numbers averaged out 800 to 900.

    Testing out frostblast and Ice boulder strike against penguin:
    [IMG]

    Frost-blast does indeed give more damage output then Ice-boulder strike, but I feel like it's not ideal.
    As you can see in the parse; I was able to use frost-blast 11 times and Ice-boulder strike 20 times. This was due to constant interruptions and CC's; and sometimes Frost-blast would just flat-out miss hitting the target.


    Conclusion: Frostblast is okay. You get pretty good damage, but you get interrupted far too often to make it work. You also don't see very big numbers unless this thing lands on a critical hit. Another problem I had is that frost-blast would just flat-out miss hitting the penguin despite me being at close range. And finally; This thing will hit for a dud 10k damage out because enemies will block by the time you're finished casting it. So: The damage out was a lot more noticeable; but a lot more struggling to keep up throughout the boss fight. For my taste; I'll probably avoid using it in most cases.









  12. Jacob Dragonhunter Devoted Player

    Yeah I figured that out. It's just half of the time I couldn't really notice it; and that's because I constantly punched out most of the HP because Ice-boulder strike does a lot of damage.

    To me the damage is just a little bit disappointing for getting interrupted so often, but that's just my take on it.
  13. Crimson Mayhem Loyal Player

    Do you think Frost Blast would be worth it with the Empowered Channeling mod?
  14. Jacob Dragonhunter Devoted Player

    Unfortunately No, I believe the Empowered Channeling mod was disabled for ice users back when Tunso was implementing the AM.

    And According to the Wiki, it's not listed as a Power that works with the mod:
    http://dcuniverseonline.wikia.com/wiki/Empowered_Channeling
  15. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    That MOD only works with channeled powers not cast time powers. Avalanche yes Frost Blast no.
  16. Crimson Mayhem Loyal Player

    Well that's unfortunate. I'm not usually playing Ice so I wasn't aware. To be honest, it should include cast time powers and all those that were removed when the channeling AMs were introduced. Makes no sense for it to apply to channels but not cast times.
  17. Black Jaq Devoted Player

    Empowered Channeling works with Arctic Gust and Freeze Ray. If you use Avalanche or AG, there is a bit of an incentive to get the mod and also use Freeze Ray.
  18. MAXILIANO Loyal Player

    I believe this may have been for me.
    So, what is the explanation for the fact that when I was in CR 32 my loadout could be done three to four times? And when I went to CR 166 the same loadout could not be done right if you want it once?
    And if I turned the gears and got CR equipment 32 would I make 3 or 4 repetitions again?o_O
  19. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    Cr differential does not affect power. CR power scaling based on gear does.
  20. SkullGang Devoted Player

    You can even go down to CR 0 and do a rotation 5 times. Theres a power consumption scale at play but its affected by gear equipped.
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