Stats Revamp 1.8: Nature

It has a small initial burst. It used to have a great hit when it was a 300 cost but I don't really mind how it is now.

I don't think weapon buffs should be 300 costs they only give you a prec buff and while it's better it's not 300 power cost better.

I was seeing 2 initial bursts and then the 12 ticks of poison.

Also, Poison seems kind of strong to me. Very inexpensive powers apply it, but it does the same damage as electrocute or circle of destruction.

I don't think any sort of fair comparison can be done versus Sorcery right now DPS or Heal side, that power should've been prioritized to 1.8 ASAP.

Also the higher than usual damage is there to probably offset the set up time.

I just went back and checked and yea it has 2 ticks of burst at about a 2200 base tick at 201 cr and a small aoe burst. Thats pretty low burst damage so i don't see a issue. If that small initial burst was dropped that would stink cause you kinda need a little burst on the setup or we will have the same setup issues natures had for years. Now don't get me wrong the setup process with nature is still slow and you miss out on a ton of damage but once you get your poisons rolling your in good shape and you have a bit of variety for adds with nature now and this is honestly the best build nature has ever seen.

To address your dot damage thing nature almost entirely relies on dot damage so they have to do good damage. Another thing is only one of natures dots is aoe so you have to go through more steps to get it going, so it takes you 4 powers to get your dots setup and spread while with elec it takes 2 powers to set up then go to town with burst, not to mention burst is faster damage then dots. Also nature only has one ranged burst and its a 100 power cost so with only one dot nature isn't to great, even with 2 nature isnt all that and its not till 3 dots you do max damage and thats not something you can do everywhere . You just don't come out out the gate drop a pi, dot then go to town with burst powers. Electric's electrocute and tesla ball (which is better then any nature dot and doesn't spit damage) are pretty good dots but i do think electrocute needs a slight buff.

Anyway you cant compare the dots of the two powers cause they work totally different. Nature relies almost entirely on dots where elec is mainly focused around one dot and heavy burst. Two totally different playstyles, One more dot focused and one more burst focused so of course the one thats dot focused will have stronger dots and the one thats burst focused will have better burst.

Bug Report:

So heres a odd bug with setting up your poisons. If your targeting a npc behind another npc the poison hits the target in front of the intended target. This happens with vine lash, briar and even harvest when trying to spread poisons.

This bug makes setting up and spreading dots in content real sketchy cause things are always moving and if you get one dot on one npc and another dot on another npc you won't be able to spread them all together and totally makes a mess of natures setup. Not to mention if a npc crosses your target with the poisons on it harvest will hit that npc and you miss the spread.

We don't have this issue on live and im not exactly sure whats causing it but if its gonna be a issue to fix maybe you can just make harvest spread dots even if not cast on the target that has dots on it. So as long as a harvest hit a enemy with dots it would spread them. I'd rather it not be like that but if it came down to it i'd be fine cause we don't want a already long setup to no be able to be setup correctly or double the time cause a npc crossed in front of another one.

not a huge deal one way or the other. I was just wondering if it was intended or a bug.

I can't help but compare the dots from different power sets. I can't help it! It's a compulsion I tell you!

That having been said, I do see your point. Roar is a strong channeled power, and nature has the melee burst, but other than that there's really nothing but DOTs. If there's an intent to make Nature's DOTs stronger because there truly are no burst options, then that's ok. I'm just pointing out that they're very very strong. And the single target ones are only single target until you hit harvest or thorn burst to spread the poison around.

I don't really count roar as burst your gonna use often and its only mid-range, anytime you use it you have to start the long dot setup process over and you end up loosing damage, think of roar as more of power you will use right before the adds die. Its pretty situational not something you use over and over. Also not something you can get real accurate testing at the dummies for either you def need to run content to see the big picture with it and how much the down time of not having any dots up with other dps in the group affects you if you try to use it in every rotation.

And a nature dot is only a tiny bit stronger then electrocute but weaker then tesla. I'd be careful using things like very very strong cause its only like 300 base better then electrocute if i remember correctly but again elec plays different so you can't really compare. And regardless how something works from one power to another you have to look at what they do and how they do it and nature gets to the same place number wise as most of the other powers, its not the top power but not the bottom power, its in a nice middle ground spot.

Comparing one powers dot or burst to another will get you in trouble. I know you said its a habit lol and im not faulting you on it just pointing a few things out for others who might be reading this too. Look at how some things are going on test right now where they try to blanket balance or use the same formulas for somethings.....that hasn't been going to well to say the least..... Each power should be balanced on its own and the powers made sure they all hit the same benchmark in the end.

Also before this update nature was underperforming and in the newest update they only gave the dots a 200ish base damage bump, not to big of a increase but it did put nature in a good spot.

Bug Report

The supercharge Chaotic Growth is doing a little to much damage. From looking at other 100% supers they deal roughly 400k damage but Chaotic Growth is around 600k

Another thing i noticed is in the notes it says it was changed to be only one hit but its still two so thats probably why its doing extra damage. I really think we should leave it 2 hits cause if it only has one hit and that hit happens to not crit thats a big waste of a 100% super. I say leave it two hits and just tone the damage down some.

Spread doesnt allways work, i guess: if you hit a target that happens to have no DOT, there is no spread? And if there are multiple DOT's on multiple targets, it seems only those targets you hit will spread only theyr dot...

Maybee spread should have an area effect all around you? Maybe the spread should stay in area for a while, for if new targets spawn, you dont need to start all over again to stack the dots? Don't know though...

You can only spread poisons when harvesting a target that has poisons on it, thats how its always worked. So you want to target lock what your putting poisons on until you spread them, then once things have poisons on them you can harvest any target and spread/refresh your poisons.

If your in a situation where you keep having to apply poisons try only running 1 and a more burst focused loadout. If your trying to stack dots on adds thats not going to work out to well cause its a very slow to setup. Try swarm and serpent for adds cause they are both AoE. That will help out cause you don't have to spread them.

Got it Thx for the tipps! Wait, serpent is AOE? I didn't realize!

Latest Patch notes incase anyone is wondering what were the most recent changes. Also note that the section on Savage growth i'm guessing is about healing not dps cause its still the same in dps stance which is a good thing i was gonna be a bit disappointed if it got changed from a burst.

Nature

• Shapeshifting weapon combos have been rebalanced
• Poison effects should now be applied to the proper target
• Savage Growth - Should now reliably deliver 9 ticks of damage
• Swarm - Rebalanced damage output
• Blossom - Increased Pheromone group heal amount, but reduced the priority heal amount
• Flourish - Increased burst healing amount
• Vine Lash - Fixed double damage tick.
• Carnivorous Plants
  • Removed the Crushing power interaction
  • Now applies its own stack of Poison and spreads existing Poison
  • Increased damage amount, but reduced healing amount
• NEXT BUILD:
  • Shapeshifting
    • Heal and damage effects on use
    • Form change duration
    • The return of Dog form

Intended?





Nature should have least 1 very good burst aoe dps power like other powersets have ( by very good i mean be 300powercost and do same damage)

You can't compare things how you are cause both power sets work different. Nature doesn't have large burst cause its dot focused. You couldn't have high burst and good dots or that would be to good. Nature does have one good 300 burst though and thats savage growth but thats only for melee and only acceptable and in line cause its a melee only power and there needs to be some reward for a melee playstyle. And comparing harvest to ice bolder is a bad comparison also. Harvest does less burst damage cause it has a secondary job of spreading and refreshing.

Now on snow devil vs swarm i think swarm is ok and snow devil is a bit weak and needs to be brought up. Ice is one of the lower powers so anything we can to to up the damage for ice would be great for it.

yeah that's why i said this : Nature should have least 1 very good burst aoe dps power like other powersets have ( by very good i mean be 300powercost and do same damage)

And it's not only for nature, it's for every powerset.Honestly I don't see the point of having that low cost of voracious plants or however it's called, they should make it 300powercost with 3sec so can help out with dps for nature.

Nature

• Shapeshifting weapon combos have been rebalanced - They seem to be doing much better now but with the short duration of the supercharge its hard to say anything concrete. I'll wait for the upcoming changes to them for my final answer but looking good so far.
• Poison effects should now be applied to the proper target - Checked this out and its working properly now.
• Savage Growth - Should now reliably deliver 9 ticks of damage - I'm guessing this was meant to say healing cause its the same for dps and hope it stays a burst cause its just what nature needed for melee. Please don't change for dps
• Swarm - Rebalanced damage output - Seems ok, the damage didn't drop to much only like 100-200ish a tick so its still a viable power to use.
• Vine Lash - Fixed double damage tick - Now correctly only dealing one tick of burst on cast.
• Carnivorous Plants
  • Removed the Crushing power interaction
  • Now applies its own stack of Poison and spreads existing Poison
  • Increased damage amount, but reduced healing amount - This was a great change to the super and really helps out with the being stuck running 3 dots and no super issue. Now you can run 2 dots and this super and still have your 3 dots for bosses without sacrificing something and being able to stay in line with other power sets. I checked to make sure the dot didn't stack on itself and it doesn't so everything looks to be in a good spot. I'd still love to drop the healing totally off of this super so it does i bit more damage but other then that im in love with the flexibility this super has brought to nature.
• NEXT BUILD:
  • Shapeshifting
    • Heal and damage effects on use
    • Form change duration
    • The return of Dog form
    • Looking forward to these changes!

I used to fear changes to nature cause of all the weird stuff that was going on but these last few updates have been incredible and i thank you and whoever else is helping out with this stuff. So many issues from flexibility, no room for a super, poor dot damage and just all the other problems nature had have been pretty much cleared up recently. While nature isn't the best power on test its not the bottom feeder that it used to be and i think everyone who loves nature is going to really love this update!!!!!

July 7th Hotfix - Healing:

Blossom is still bugged, I don't think I worded it clearly before but they way it is bugged is that per each stack of pheromone whether it be one two or three we still receive the same amount of healing, in this recent update at my restoration at 14771 the pheromone healing accounts for roughly 2k, the priority is now a measly 4.5k~. (Tested with one, two and three stacks of pheromones, metabolism, savage growth and flourish)

I am under the assumption that it is supposed to function as roar does, with each stack of pheromone there will be an additive amount. In which case the total amount of healing with 3 stacks would be roughly 6k which is what is desperately needed for nature to even be slightly viable for healing. This is how it functioned in the beginning versions of 1.7 where my initial post stated I was receiving a total healing amount of 2.1k~ for all three stacks.

Also if this is not the intended functionality of Blossom or if it isn't how you want it to be then it still needs a buff, my pheromone ticks are going from 350-400, x12 that's about 4200-4800 for one stack. I need to leveraging a lot more if this is way you want it to go because the way it is now is not worth using nor is it competitive against the other power sets on test.

With Flourish, I think this ability is in an OK state now, I was averaging 4k~ on the initial burst, I strongly feel this ability needs render distance range along side Metabolism for the sake of being competitive versus Celestial as every single heal has render distance range on them.

Please also, consolidate all the HoTs on Savage Growth back to 5, this is purely because with the way it is now, Savage Growth crit healing isn't strong enough meaning I have to rely on blossoming or roaring more often for the quick burst, this will help players conserve power.

Nature is starting to look up and I'm really glad. But now that the DoTs are in a better place, I honest think the form changes should be reverted back to normal moves. Wolf form is honestly one of mine and lot of other nature user's favorite aspect of the power and while I feel it shouldn't be the absolute best option, it should be just as equal an option to human. I don't want to have to build up supercharge and then switch to it for only a certain amount of time. Wolf and bug form being op was forcing nature users to play one way, but them being supercharges is doing the same thing. We HAVE to use human in order to play the way we prefer for a few seconds. We already have to work for the main damage supercharges. We have to work to be able to temporarily shapeshift too? Considering that nature is only a mid tier power damage wise, I feel we have to do too much work to be as flexible as we should be able to be by default. And now that I see they are bringing dog form back, we prob gonna have to work for THAT as well. I don't have a problem with human form, but I shouldn't HAVE to use it in order to use my other forms in a power that showcases shapeshifting, which is supposed to be the most appealing factor after the DoT/HoT factor, if not THE most appealing factor. I hope I'm not the only one who feels this way.