Stats Revamp 1.7

Power is the blue generator mod socket.
Blue - health power
Yellow - vit resto dom
red - prec might

For gear mods, there are vit/pow and resto/pow mods which I'm assuming are getting pushed for right now.

Oh my god man... So I've been playing this game since January 2012 and never heard about dpses needing health, i hear it now and I'm like wow, what is this guy saying? ... We can use sidekicks to stay alive and supplies and colas , we want to do more damage therefor we need more might and power, no need to have more survivability if you can kill the add/boss faster .You can do that by having more might and power, that's what I suggest.

But I see that you and Fatal Star don't want dpses to have more might nor more power, which isn't really constructive. You and players like you can spec into more health.I and players like me want to spec into more power and might, that's why we've been this game for so many years.

And Mepps in Stats Matter skill points don't matter? they shouldn't matter? We should stop giving our feedback about them?

Was it pointless for me and players like me to play for so many months and get those LPVE feats and general lpve feats?
Was it pointless for me and players like me to play same instances every days for months to get the base items for feats (Dynasty,Playhouse, Occult, Shabby ,Mystical) ?
Was it pointless for me and players like me to farm 25 thousand exobits ( which took weeks with and without rnd scanners) ?
Was it pointless for me and players like me to search and farm all those collections, briefings and investigations for feats?
Was it pointless for me and players like me to do those boring solos (missions) for 500 times for feats?
Was it pointless for me and players like me to do same instances for so many months to get the styles for feats?
And what about pvp that some players don't like and they tolerated it so many times for so many years to get the feats?
And time capsules feats...I have been doing the stabilizer event every day since it came out + spent about 600millions ingame cash to get those feats and I'm still missing some....
And then we have some grinding feats in some dlcs , 500 central city bounties,250 civilians and other 2 250 things attached to battle for earth duos.
And then we have hands of fate, last laugh, home turf feats which need alot of weeks to be completed.Origin Crisis 100 solos for 10 feat points only...Sons of trigon amazon fury 1 have also alot of feats which need months to be completed without resetting...
Basicly most of dlcs' feats and most of feats from other catergories are about grinding, doing the same stuff for days, months till you get them.

And you people know how much time and money it takes to have 310+ SP? About 10 thousand hours, 10.000 hours or even more.Depends how you play, some people take it easy and slowly , some others fast because they want to be more effective.


So you people with 9.000 or less(maybe 4.000) hours played want to have same stats compared to someone who has played for 10.000 hours or more?

Well if you do that guess what will happen, more people will stop being legendary members, more people will stop playing this game for feats, pvp because those won't matter to our damage out or healing out or power out or tanking.More people will stop getting the best mods because those 160 more might or vita or resto or dominance/health won't really matter...

So yeah that's how dcuo can be less and less attractive to new players and old players,legendary members, make out stats matter even less than how much they matter now with cr matters.

Well that's how you make stats matter WORSE THAN CR MATTERS.

Theres a issue with that formula I see already, if you need to grind out all the gear mods and gen mods before you can have enough power to use what you use and not struggle with power thats a issue right there and my gear mods don't really matter cause they will be might, might/prec, resto suff like that not power gear mods so accounting gear mods doesn't make much sense to me. It also takes a while to get all your gen mods so people are going to be having power issues for a while and till they are totally modded???? Thats just not right. The extra power we get from having power gen mods should be a bonus not a necessity. The gear should give you the additional power that is needed for the cr increase.

So what kind of gear mods are you guys accounting for In your math?? Are you using power gear mods or mods geared for the role you are doing?? Gear mods should have nothing to do with power costs. Gear mods should be focused on the role you are playing. Sure a troll might run some vit/power but thats to better his roll but should not be a necessity for Healing, tanking and dps.

I also remember doing testing at 120 cr with 150 skill points i think it was with no gen mods and was still able to out last my 189 cr build with all the best mods. When i can get on test again i will got back over it and record a vid or something showing the differences is power consumption.

I really thing you guys are being to strict and over thinking this power issue here.

Yeah Crappy just straightened me out on that. My bad.

1)Actually what they're saying is there's nothing wrong with having a MAX OUT of a stat. Stats aren't just about damage, not even for DPSes.

2)Why does having a MAX OUT of a stat make it automatically bad, or "worse" as you put it.? I would posit it's the "damage damage damage" attitude that does the most "damage" to stats mattering. This never ending quest to do more damage and be top of the scoreboard drives devs into corners(admittedly one they make themselves, because they run the show). It stunts progression every where else.

3)Every tiime someone points out that buffing your other stats as a DPS might be you know, helpful to the support roles keeping your squishy DPS alive, you come back by saying "why should I bother, someone else will take care of it." And that's kind of the problem. In a team oriented game, and specifically in team oriented instances, all you care about is yourself, which is why all you care about is having more might than anybody else at all times.

try to realize you're not the only one out there on the battlefield buddy, and making yourself a little less squishy can make a world of difference to your support.

Want to show me how awesome all those stat points you've earned are? Then stop relying on me the healer to keep you alive through every massive attack you lunge directly into all because you can't be bothered to soak up a little more damage and have a little longer health bar.

I might have miscounted while I was at work. And yes, I was talking about PftT which is the reason we got into this mess of power being a stat that determines effectiveness as a dps. Though I'm surprised you are saying 7 in movement. Sure I know what they are, but generally the tank needs the power regen there, and its an extra for anyone else if you have the skill points to spare (of course I guess we are talking about maxing out here, but I wouldn't call those dps role must haves as they shouldn't be breaking out that much). Also PftT would likely still want to invest in some weapon combos, for the rare occasion when they are completely drained of power (possibly through a raid mechanic, like one of the V adds in Love and War).

So the corrected number on my end is 245 sp for PftT, (251 if you really want those breakout inates).
Weapons only I'm getting about 268 sp (175 precision, 60 crits, 1 for mastery, 1 for movement, 9 x 3 weapons for combos and master, 4 for WM combos). There is an average of 8 combos per weapon. This number can be lowered if you do not want all 4 WM combos, or if you do not want WM combos at all.
Hybrid is a little trickier, because how you actually want to spec depends on how you play (30%weapons/70%powers spec more into might, 70%weapons/30%power spec more into precision). and if you are a hybrid player leaning towards either weapons or powers, you may actually spend your sp in your primary stat and mod in your secondary stat. So you may be a hybrid player but spend your sp in stats like a weapons or PftT player. That being said a 50/50 hybrid would want 443 sp if they want all 4 WM moves, full might, full precision, etc (449 if they want the breakout inates). This number can be lowered if you do not want all 4 WM combos, or if you do not want WM combos at all.

To update my earlier mistakes,
It now looks like both trolls and healers would need 420 sp for full role stats (426 for the breakout inates). I have not accounted for WM combos in this.
It now looks like tanks need 584 sp for full role stats. This number can be lowered if you do not want all 4 WM combos, or if you do not want WM combos at all. (I'm currently using all 4 in this count as above)

Seeing these numbers may drive people to weapon or PftT dps, or at least weapon or power leaning hybrid specs. Because you can maximize your damage much sooner at the far ends of the spectrum.

At what point does it cap? We should be able to max our power pool and be set, but we aren't. The CR will continue to increase, thus making it worse. For that matter, it should be based on the minimum, not maximum. The problem is, having it set like it is, you wont want to level your character. That's a huge problem, as that drops the drive for progression and drops the want to run content.

We just went through a rewards thing with the most recent DLC drop as well as the reason why we stopped doing monthly content, this puts it right in the same camp. There is this massive wall of climb that just puts players off. Where they are incapable of enjoying their stuff as long as they are on it.

Please rethink scaling to at least exclude SP. There should be a bonus for making your character stronger, not a punishment.

THIS ^^ i agree

1) Well for a very good dps that likes to play from the try Might and Power is what they need and want.So yeah Might and Power is most important compared to other stats like health which are 99,9% useless.

2)Max out of a stat doesn't make you automatically bad, nor worse. The more damage attitude is what makes this game fun for many players and is what gets the job, the raid, the feat, the bossfight done fast.It increases progression everywhere.It doesn't stunt progression anywhere, so please don't write nonsense again.

3)Because everytime someone points out of a dps having more health sounds like nonsense, never, ever in this game we dpses needed more health and now some of you guys( with about 240 that don't want to get more sp ) say that we should get more health so we can have same Might,Power with you, so a 310+ SKILL POINTS DPS CANNOT DO MORE DAMAGE COMPARED TO A 240 SP DPS.So you want dpses to do 2 jobs? damage and help the healers... Healing is already easy , you want to make it easier? So a healer can do what? be afk? smoke, eat? drink? talk on phone?Go for a nap?

Try to realize that healing is already easy , dpsing also , same for all roles, (I consider dpsing the most fun coz of the speed and we have to be faster compared to other roles). So trying to make healing easier , will end up having healers be bored to death !
And some health more won't make a world of difference to support because less dps= more time we have the add/boss up= more damage we take.So please stop writing nonsense and think things through.
And only new players with minimum knowledge lunge into every massive attack and expect healers to heal those.Very good dpses like me prefer to stay alive and do damage not risk a certain death and rely on healer to keep me alive.

QUESTION:
i am playing alts for every power, only my main gets fully geared, fully modded, and also the complete newest version of generator mods. my alts just can't get anything else but the SP buyed over from my main, also there are sometimes not even base mods in the gear wile grinding the CR, the equippement pieces change fast... so i need to ask: should't it be rather based on the gear stats only, completely ignoring gear/generator mods and SP's (because how exactly can you take SP's into calculation if players may have from zer0- 350 sp's on the same CR, running the same stuff etc.)? i mean, is it realy correct to think of players that are always perfectly geared and have completely done everything at all times?

thing is: while i love to have stat clamped events for alts, when stats are going to matter again, i will be doomed to play alts only while events ^^ just a thought ^^'

Can I ask why mods are even a factor in this? Not everyone will have access to the best mods... Cost should simply scale with cr and that's it. Factoring in all of the extra stuff is unnecessary and complicates things.

Mods should just help fortify your desired play style to the best it can be. Not be a requirement.

You've never heard the term "glass cannon"? DPSs in this game spend so much in their damage stats, never once thinking about their own survivability, only scoreboard chasing. And if they die, its anyone's fault but their own. It sounds like you are in that camp. There is so much more to this game than a scoreboard. Oh, and guess what, if you are alive longer, you tend to do more damage. Sure colas, sidekicks, and supply drops can help keep you alive, but not if they are on cooldown. Increasing you base survivability stats can help you survive in situations you otherwise might not.

I've been playing the game just as long as you, and healers, tanks, even other dps have always made fun of the squishy dps that were avoiding health or defense while specing. As it is on live, you have to spend 21 sp to get to the bottom row stats in any weapon tree, not all of them are going to be of primary importance to your role. So for a dps, work on survivability (health and defense) then power (since on live it doesn't mean as much). On test, survivability could either come after you max out your main stat(s), or spread out along the way, depending on your personal preference.

And anyway, weren't you championing hybrid dps which needed about 443sp to max out? So you still have some time before you would need to consider something above and beyond role specific stats (like survivability).

As someone who has healed in the revamp, I can tell you that non tank roles do not get hit as hard as they do on live currently, infact, melee is probably 100% survivable and viable in raids if the healers are on their toes. That said, health has a much bigger impact in the revamp, there's a lot more available to spec into. You don't think that would help with being squishy then you're kidding yourself. After you get 242 SP and get all your might, health would not be a bad thing to spec into at all and would help you survive things other players would die to.

Man, I think we've kicked over a very fruitful discussion on how the players and the devs think about the game, differently, and how the disconnect may be driving a point of conflict in the revamp process. I'll definitely get on and take a look at power pool and vitality scaling when I can get back into revamp test, just to make sure it is in fact scaling the way the developers intended. However, moving from the positive to the normative, I agree with all the other players who have expressed an opinion here that gear mods, skill points, and genny mods should not be factored into the "time-to-drain" equation. If my gear, my gear alone, is the source of my power cost increase, my gear alone should keep me in the status quo.

This really is an excellent discussion by some of the game's all-time great controllers, and it merits a read by all parties, I think:
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dcuo/index.php?threads/vita-increase-vs-power-cost-scaling.186743/

In the thread I think it's Penryn who mentions the rationale behind power cost scaling is just to keep power management uniform and relevant from tier to tier. Absent the increase we run into a power positive situation where trolls can get dramatically more power back from POT than it costs them to throw, and additionally one well-geared troll would be able to keep everyone topped off with little to no effort. The thing is, not accounting for generator mods at the time because they didn't yet exist, the power cost increase has traditionally been too aggressive (see linked thread), and creates the situation where trolls get less and less power out per unit spent, at the same time that it's costing the group more and more power to just maintain the same rotation.

Again, I'll test time to empty at various CRs, etc and see if it's working as intended. Some of us think it may not be, and even if it is, I feel safe saying we respectfully offer for your consideration taking SP and mods out of the equation and relying on just gear.

Reposting cause Amen!

Whether ya miscounted or not how is it any difference in just keeping the bonuses, if all they are doing is just handicapping might builds and hindering the precision builds.

Seems the amount of SP should work the same as the structure for which power hit hard or not, with respect to power cost.

If you have to spend more there should be an advantage.

Why else would 1 have a choice to make.

Having pft builds having an advantage or precision builds having an advantage really gives no options but to go with the one with the path to less resistance.

If stats are going to truly matter than there should be certain amount of balance separately from skill, with clear objectives to maximize stats with all available tools.

Keeping players nerfed so that others who may have just started or who don't have time to really focus on any content, due to alts, real life, or the dog,...whatever, has severely drove more old school players away than anything​ else.

Having the ability to spec 10 SP should feel stronger than 5 SP, there should be big differences but not as big as if it were more than by 100 or 200.

Having to spend 254 or more should really show, but if 300 is required to fully spec, in comparison the 1 with having to spend more should be stronger and hitting harder as well as taking less damage (having more rest/vit is overkill currently on live we really don't need the extra).

But meh, I am pretty sure they have a different plans.

LOL just lol... How long have you been playing this game as main role dps? Not more than 1 year for sure !
Survivability for dps...I know that's very important for tanks but for dps ....Did you think that through?Obviously not ! They said they will remove random 1 shots + let us have more time to react to 1shots attached to mechanics !
So why we would need more Health as dps?Simply we won't , you're probably (one of those players with low sp, low compared to 320) just trying to not let others have more might nor more power so they can't have more stats than you therefor no more damage than you.

Every expert dps knows that more might and at least more power is needed for maximum dps for some powers because the play from the tray is better than hybrid , plus I've never heard, nor seen , nor read about being one of the best dps with just using weapon attacks...

So yeah so far I've seen maximum dps with play from the tray , hybrid no. Thanks for making me laught though... more health for dps lol (oh and because I don't want to read more of your << feedback>> let's call it, I'll ignore you).
More might or at least power is needed for very good dps which is play from the tray, like Rage, Light, Quantum.

By advance sorry for my grammar ^^

The big problem i see with the revamp 1.7 is for the hybrid players. Even if you want play hybrid you have no choice to put almost all SP in might/power because precision give nothing else.

Maybe with a system if we choose hybrid playstyle the stat precision give also power ? Like that we can spec in both.

That's a pretty good idea, get power from precision sp.