Stats Revamp 1.7

What do you want to say? You want to say that someone with 240 sp should have the same almost same Might(or Power) compared to someone who has 300+ SP ?

Yes. Only a small portion of the playerbase will even have enough sp to fully spec into one stat innate, how big do you want the performance gap to be? If you have an overabundance in sp, buy something else. There's 5 other stat bubbles. Let players with less sp catch up.

DEVS.......Will what you choose in white mod sockets actually affect your toon gameplay when STATS go live?

Again, if you take too much damage too quickly, your dead. But if you invest some sp in survivability, that gives the healers some breathing room so you don't die. See, it's not nonsense. And also, there are those 4 dps runs off the alerts, so how is the non existent healer going to heal you?

I do agree that it's a bit unbalanced that a dps can max out their role stats with 215 sp, it looks like tanks need over 500 (depending on the power), while healers and trolls need about 390.

But only looking at one role is a bad idea as it can create issues for the other roles.

@Mepps: Is discussion of power cost scaling with CR not specific to the overall power issues we're currently working on in the revamp?

How can DPS max out with 215SP? PFT need 1 mastery, 60 for crits, 7 for movement and 175 for Might/Power. That's 243. Weapons-only is something I haven't seen anyone try yet but they would need around 251-253 depending on weapon choice, or 12-24 more for WM.
Hybrid, which will with 99% certainty be the vast majority of players, will need 1 mastery, 60 for crits, 7 for movement, around 9-34 for combos, 175 for Might/Power, 175 for Precision/WDPS. That's a total of 427-451 if I'm not mistaken.

U my friend is the reason this revamp is important... Players with less sp shldnt have the same nor average might or power as smebdy higher who grinded it out...that the problem on live now...12-140 so players doing same damage as a 200+ this not fare to the grinders...

yes!!!!

Reading all these changes and still not interest in coming back.... lol

Just curious, because I posted a comment about how 1. The might/power pairing is something the developers should be credited for and we should move on to discussing more-relevant issues like the power cost increase with CR scaling being too aggressive. An experience many have shared on test where, at CR 60 a player is self sustainable for nearly twice as long as long as they are at 189 or 201. It's not a particularly new issue, but it's been covered up by wm and am. I'd included a link to this old discussion outlining the issue better than I could: https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dcuo/index.php?threads/vita-increase-vs-power-cost-scaling.186743/

I think it could be relevant to power consumption issues per the revamp, and going forward. Didn't understand how it was out-of-line.

This comes down to incorrect testing of power cost scaling.

Power cost scales with item level. Power also scales in tandem with item level at the exact same rate.

Here's how you can test:
Setup #1:

• CR 189 - Full Amazon Fury 3 Vendor Gear
• 165 Skill Points in Might/Power
• Full Olympian Mods and Full Olympian Generator Mods
• Test rotation with this setup

Setup #2:

• CR 201 - Full Age of Justice Vendor Gear
• 175 Skill Points in Might/Power
• Full Special Forces Mods and Full Special Forces Generator Mods
• Test rotation with this setup

Both setups should have about the same "time to empty", given the same rotation.
Please let us know if this is not the case.
Tests that adjust ONLY CR and leave other sources of power static (Skill Points, Mods, Generator Mods, etc.) are invalid, because we don't balance to players having access to those power sources.
Thanks.

Thanks, I'll take a look when I can get on test again.

Just a point of clarification, when we're talking genny mods does your model assume power mods in the yellows? Because I could see a potential issue there with troll and healer powers speccing vit/resto in those sockets as part of a support role spec. Maybe not a huge issue, but just thinking out loud.

1. Im not sure if channeled powers were balanced yet as im still gettin the same results as last time where they arent VIABLE/COMPETITIVE because start up time, execution, dove-tail, cooldown... Munitions is STILL HORRID.

• 1a. Weaponization Moves that THROW elemental powers are the same THING.. animation, startup, execution and dovetail are still INFERIOR to BURST.. The damage is not WORTH even CONSIDERING to use these types of moves. Has to be BUFFED BIGLY.. lol Once again, refer to cast/startup, delayed throw animation, execution, dove tail. To further, encourage people to play WEAPONIZATION powers, please BUFF the iconic.. Ive tested the differences, just seems a WASTE.. Venom got a MAJOR BOOST, so should this!

2. Can we please get a SP dropdown menu for SP ALLOCATION.. its very tedious to spend 240sp over n over for testing.. I feel this should have been implemented FIRST before a new LAYOUT for loadouts. (yes im aware of holding the spacebar)

3. Power cost are NOT SCALING correctly, as others have mentioned before.. I honestly THOUGHT might and power with the MASTERIES would HELP, buts its WORST.. Before(during 1.6 revamp) i was able to rifle tap and build my meter back and be able to get maybe up to 3FULL ROTATIONS with FIRE, MENTAL, Munitions.etc.. (with 50k power stat) same rotations as before, but now, on STATS revamp 1.7 and tried ALL MASTERIES to confirm, i can barely get off 2 rotations(once again 50k power stat). My mods, rotations and stats havent changed since revamp 1.6.. not sure if the HYBRID mastery mechanic was NERFed before it was actually called HYBRID mastery REVAMP 1.6.

• 3a. Power mastery seems to RESET everytime you spam a new move. Meaning your power bar replenishes itself, as LONG as youre not Using a move. I dont know if thats intended. So powers that have longer animations will benefit from this(celestial HL etc.), but powers that have shorter animation will STILL run out of power fast.

4. 100 power cost are still TOOO STRONG.. once again.. i can spam 3x 100 cost power(0.5sec cooldown) moves to do MORE DAMAGE then a 300 cost power move with a LONG COOLDOWN(3-6sec cooldown).. I just dont see the BALANCE in that.. 18k might as well.. no buffs no sodas no Supply drops.. Its like that for FIRE, ELECTRIC, ice, mental, gadgets....


5. good Job on CELESTIAL and PLAGUE.. CELESTIAL is looking like the CELEST of OLD! KUDOS! Rage is still power hungry which I GUESS IS FINE????? At this point id justify making OUTRAGE 450 power cost for MELEE damage. But the rage combo costs are still TOO HIGH!

6. Good job on IMPROVING MENTAL as a WHOLE. Powerset seems alot more VERSATILE and creative.. I do miss the OLD mass terror PRE AM era. LARGE hit and 12 tick dots. just too much power being used excessively..

This is my only GRIPE/ISSUES so far..

I disagree RESPECTFULLY.. i have 200sp but i would like there to be at least a 15% dmg difference between me and someone with 300sp.. 13-15% dmg difference per 100sp gap between two players sounds pretty fair for the grinders..

and a 26-30% dmg difference between someone with a 200sp gap difference... I honestly think those numbers are FAIR..


WHICH IS why i think might/precision and other stats should be MAXED out to about 300.. bcuz 300sp is OBTAINABLE in game now, so capping MIGHT at 175sp when, PRECISION isnt important anymore for MIGHT USERS.. Especially since they took out defense and SINGLE power stat allocation.

I dont want the devs to stretch out the stats within the 300, i want them to continue to build upon what we already have.. i know them smh lol

U can say its the intent all ya want. So can the devs or anyone else. Wasnt the intent for nature/electric to be on par with every other power? My point is for some of us the words dont matter much anymore. We need to see it with our own eyes. I hope it happens. But i need to see the final build and it on live to say thats happened.

So much this^ Its the 1 area i feel testing is flawed. Below average players who dont know what they are doing or have no experience with the power they are testing are providing feedback. And from what ive seen in the past changes have been made based off some of that feedback. People should have a basic understanding 1st. Imo its impossible to give feedback on a topic and/or request changes when ya dont understand the topic

Um, there's a problem if that's how the system is supposed to work.

Say we have Setup #2 and it does give us the same time to drain as Setup #1.

1. People would've already had 175sp spec'd in power at 189. That only takes 235/236sp to get. They would've had their rotation in Setup #1 and assumed that progressing to Setup #2, it would be the same time to drain when this system is meant to factor in an increase in skill points.

2. This becomes a problem when we have the inevitable Setup #3 and Setup #4. Since 175sp is the cap off and 10 more points can't be put in and all you have is a base mod and gear mod increase, you'll slowly start to be unable to run that same rotation as progression goes on. And when a new DLC gets released and every1 resets the dailies or the alerts/raids, what have you, they'll have the CR from the next "Setup" with its power cost but wouldn't have ran enough content to craft the next set of mods since costs are so high. You'd basically be unable to run your rotation as smooth until you grinded out the materials after 1-3 months and even then you would see a decrease in sustain still from not having more skill points.

I don't remember you telling us at the start of revamp where we tested at 166cr/189cr how many skill points we were supposed to be using for a set cr so if that was a factor, then I have to redo rotations vs. power cost comparisons.