Stats Revamp 1.7

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by Avair, Jun 9, 2017.

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  1. stärnbock Devoted Player

    what if:
    when having two trolls, the pot would tick twice: first tick at the level of the troll with the higher vita, second tick for the other, first troll, second, high tick, lower tick, TICK, tick, TICK, tick, TICK, tick... and so on... also make the instand power dump have a cooldown of 12 seconds. that would make it impossible to spam, but needed to choose wisely and in synergy to the other troll. just some ideas.
    also, for heals and tanks: if 100points spend in resto or domi, a 10% bonus for power would help, i guess... doesnt need to go to 175p like in might/power, but 10% wouldn't give infinite power nor would it hurt... just my oppinion... maybe i see it wrong.
    • Like x 1
  2. VioletSorceress Committed Player

    PoT stacking was discussed in the past and it sounds too Op imo.
    It would make 2 trollers in a raid much more efficient but it might also bring additional restrictions that would make solo troll is an alert too weak.

    Power dumps should have no more than 3 sec cooldown imo.
    Trollers have enough power to spam and power dumps can clip most debuffs or whatever troller is using so if anything they are actually speeding up things. Restricting Power dumps or any instant effect power with a long cooldown is not the way to go and it wont be received well.
    • Like x 1
  3. stärnbock Devoted Player

    to defend mojas statement, how about taking two shield into ones loadout? right now, what i do on test is having allways a PI setup clipped with weapon buff clipped with shield, then i do a weapon combo clipped with burst and if my shield is in cooldown, i still have a second shield if things start to get nasty... i mean, maybe we need to adjust our loadouts a bit to make the loadouts not so power hungry for the trolls and our survivability should also be taken in account for the heals not needed to spam out all the time...
    i have made good results with it so far, even my dammage was not falling that much, and i guess i was getting the weapon buff from trolls here and there because i was lot of times the group member with the most mana with such a rotation... i was using the power mastery btw, because the tap hold of brawling into MA doesn't give much anyways... just a though: testers need to try what devs give to us and try to make the best use of what is given to us... well, that sayd, i still think the scaling might have something flawed in the calculation, and the problem could get worse with higher gear, but still, thats only an assumtion, and i don't want to challenge devs decission if they are sure it is correctly... try everything... thats something we as testers need to do aswell... maybe a troll SC instead of the dammage SC can help the trolls to give power a bit, and also a heal SC can help if the healer is still not in a position to heal, word of power can help the group no matter what power you are using... everybody should become group players, even if they can only do little, if the whole group is doing it, then it will have the best effect on the whole group of course... doesn't it? only if shields would stack with its effects, shielding and power back and healing would not override trolls and healers powers... sometimes you need to help the helpers to help you ^^

    lol, sorry, couldn't resist...
    • Like x 1
  4. VioletSorceress Committed Player

    There is surely a problem with scaling that is most present in end game.
    What happens is that you can get combination of new Green and Blue loot gear in a matter of hours which would increase your CR and item levels and therefore increase Power cost. But on the other hand, you would need weeks to get all new end game Generator mods and nobody in his right mind wont use mods at Loot gear. It would be more accurately to assume people wont use mods or have enough new Generator mods until half life of the DLC is past. I also dont think that more than 40% of game population have more than 200 SP. In the end Devs' expectations and reality doesnt seem to match.
    • Like x 2
  5. stärnbock Devoted Player

    yeah, i think that there might be a problem, exactly there, thats the farest statement i can say and i can not exceed it any further.
  6. spack2k Steadfast Player

    what? u can run alert without troll and having more power due group buff than runing with 2 trolls in a raid.
    pot is so weak atm there is absolute no reason to not stack pots.
    infact if i am to troll and the other troll in my group is the only one who pots , my power out will look like i have been carried ... nah thx i would pass on trolling in the future & will stick to dps.

    what? power dumps have 1.5 sec on test last time i checked.
    • Like x 1
  7. VioletSorceress Committed Player

    Hm, ur right. PoT and power dumps seem to scale poorly to Vitalization stat.
    An earlier post in this thread confused me that Power dumps are with 6 sec cooldown when in fact they are still with 1,5 sec.

    TBH, Power dumps seem very weak for their 300 power cost.
    Also these 1,5 sec makes u always keep ur finger at the Power dump button.

    Seems like PoT and Power Dumps needs a huge increase in strength and Power Dumps should have a bit of longer cooldown around a 2-2,5 sec so troller can fit a damage worthy weapon combo in between them. But cooldown increase should only go together with like 2x increase in strength.

    If things dont change Trollers will be forced to pump Power Dumps like crazy, almost like in old arcade games. :D:eek:
  8. Charmed Legacy Dedicated Player

    Ok, to begin with do not speak for all healing powers unless you have a full understanding of how they all work...You would kill Celestial with this mess you stated in your point 1..Celestial healing is a burst/HoT power. By your standard there you just increased the cooldown of CS and AcB. DL has a longer cooldown then that, but you're still adding a cooldown to it in general so it's the same principle. If you have CS, AcB, and DL on cooldown for the duration of their HoT that leaves nothing but the priority heal for Celestial on bar. Blessing has a cooldown and then there's the SC that's 100% for Celestial. This says if I have my HoTs up and an AoE comes in that all I have to aid the group is a Renew (priority) spam because everything else I have is on cooldown..Yeaaaaa no thanks..Group shields (4man) for each healing power are already ready at 300 power cost for 18 secs. Are you asking for a power cost increase on shields? For you're 4th point yet again you would be punishing Celestial for using its mechanics..Admonish is a 4 man burst, when you combo it to Blight it becomes a 8 man HoT. The power cost for AcB (17k) is already higher than anything Sorcery, Nature, and Electricity have. When Celestial combos a power we pay twice to put it in simple terms.

    Overall your points for "what needs to happen" for healing would only benefit Nature and Sorcery, and then screwed Celestial and didn't even kiss her good night....

    Skilled players should be able to solo heal without being a "burden" to the troll(s).

    What actually needs to happen for healing is the guidelines they are using for all 4 powers needs to be set on fire and tossed out the nearest window because they all 4 work very differently than each other. Changes to actually benefit each healing power need to be made accordingly to the individual powerset based on their own mechanics and functionality.

    Last Atomic tanks should use power mastery since they have to consistently combo to maintain the aura which would be considered pftt, and they don't use weapon attacks/combos.
    • Like x 1
  9. VioletSorceress Committed Player

    My intention is not kill Celestial but you are right that what Im suggesting is mostly from Sorcery and Nature point of view and generally non combo healing powers. Celestial as a combo healer would need different treatment I wouldnt dare or care to go into.
    Just consider what Im proposing just to be for Nature, Sorcery and Electro.

    Again, u are right ofc that Atomic would also go for Power mastery since its a combo. My point of view is again mostly thinking about making active tanking with Ice, Earth and Fire.

    I think Combos and PftT in general have had enough of players and Devs focus already. While they still need some details worked out they are in a good spot.

    Most of my latest requests are about Precision based- Hybrid dps and shaping WM better for dps and support roles. PffT cant get all the attention forever. I know Im tired of reading about PffT concerns , dunno about others.
  10. Charmed Legacy Dedicated Player

    Actually precision based hybrid is surpassing pftt and combo powers by a long shot. I invite you to check out some of the feedback from Fatal, Crappy, Mighty, and CaptainColdJr (if he didn't get ban yesterday) as they have diligently been testing hybrid, pftt, weapons, and WM throughout the revamp and would give you more insight to where it stands.
    • Like x 2
  11. Black Jaq Devoted Player

    Power consumption (not cost) is now going to be a problem for healers because on Live, healers are almost always guaranteed the power dump from Controllers. On Test, healers are not guaranteed that.

    On Live this past weekend I saw an Electric healer spamming Galvanize. The main reason he could is because he had a personal power battery. He wasn't using WM much to reduce costs.

    The Devs have tried to curtail consumption by cooldowns. The devs have given us the entire toybox to combat this because many players don't own more than 2 armories, especially on alts. However, players see it as inconvenient to switch loadouts; Devs see it as inefficient not to.
  12. L T Loyal Player

    In DPS Universe Online, people are always looking to do as much damage as possible, regardless of how much power they're burning through. If things move in that direction, be prepared to hear things like "stop with the stuns, stop with the debuffs, and don't bother with weapon attacks. Just spam power heal".

    If you're able to spam power heal until your bar is drained, that's exactly what will be demanded of you. If you think about where the game has been, where it is and how we got here, I think you'll realize I'm right about this.

    I'd like to see either:
    • A reduced-cost (75-100) power heal with a shortish cooldown that I can essentially use to clip everything with
    • An increased cost (350-400) more effective power heal with an 8-12 second cooldown that I can't spam even if I wanted to (so don't bother asking)
    • Like x 2
  13. Celestial Powers Committed Player

    • Like x 1
  14. FlreMint Active Player

    FireMint here

    Just dropin another dumb idea here

    -What if recharge had a 0 sec cooldown, or 0.1 sec, extremely short, but make it increase in strengh while out of cooldown until lets say, 8 seconds, power cost has to increase accordingly... there is no power in the game that works like this that I know of, therefore I understand this idea getting discarded... but I am sharing it anyways, It is arrogant of me to say this, but I think this is a great idea.

  15. Perdition Committed Player

    NO, the power cost is already too high for what it gives now powerwise. And that idea wont help the power scaling issues that we have...
  16. stärnbock Devoted Player

    what if there would be powers that work for as long as you hold the button down and constantly using mana while effect is activated? executioners would work with this for example, or health or power heals and shields... just wonder if even possible such thing...
  17. FlreMint Active Player

    Man I do not mean to increase the power cost of recharge from its current value, I mean to give it 1 power cost, yes, thats right, make it cost 1 power if you re-cast it 0.01 secs after casting it a first time, its power output will be insignificant as well. BUT if you wait 2 seconds to cast it again it will cost 200 power and have a power output 200x higher than the first case, cap at 8 seconds, with 800 power cost and a F TON of power output (x800), capisce? This is just an example, 800 power cost is crazy, maybe cap it at 6 secs with 450 power cost, it can be tweaked.

    Remember to stay fresh, no need to panic, I love you

  18. IamINC Committed Player

    I think the Devs really need to get in and play test , arrange to get the most competent and hardcore testers and themselves in a couple of raid groups and run a load of content so they can evaluate and discuss pro actively how things are from a first hand experience POV.

    It would make a lot of sense and 100% give a better perspective on how all roles play as it stands.

    Just a suggestion.
    • Like x 4
  19. Proxystar 10000 Post Club

    I just wanted to jump in and say I don't think anyone is really asking or has ever asked for infinite power, what we have on live right now is 'virtually infinite power' and it has utterly destroyed the troll role.

    However you only need to go as far as looking at this game pre GU36 where WM came in to see where the troll role was in it's prime.

    At that point you needed two trolls to power a group, but where you had two very good trolls you didn't have trouble powering any group regardless of what rotation they were running or whether there were more healers etc.

    The challenge then came through being able to manage your own power pool and communicating with your troll partner. For example you even timed your PoT where necessary and communicated PoT, you communicated your debuffs, you shared your debuffs and you shared your requirements to control adds.

    The good controllers were trollers that knew each other, communicated with each other and formed a pairing together, from there they also excelled and the good trolls could power even hungrier DPS through their play.

    At the moment though on live trolling has been destroyed because AM has made it pointless, on test it's virtually the opposite because it's impossible to reasonably power the party because you've changed the way you're approaching both power return and power costs.

    In my view you only need to go back to where the game was at pre GU36 to get an idea on what people really want from trolling, it was a mistake to ever change it and I honestly think people have been trying to say to you, go back and take a look at it from back then. I know you want to move forward, but sometimes it's worth going back and taking the good things from the past and readopting them where in retrospect you're able to see their benefits all along.

    I'm actually struggling to see, apart from clipping, what was so wrong with the way healing, controlling and tanking functioned pre GU36, I really am. People are entitled to their opinion, but this is mine and therefore my feedback.

    edit; I just wanted to say too, I don't think we expect people to be able to be "great" at low CR and low SP, in fact it's actually the opposite. But what we don't want to expect is that when we do have higher stats and the like it's still be borderline impossible to feel an increase in strength or ability etc.
    • Like x 3
  20. light FX Steadfast Player

    Who is asking to be able to do all 4 roles at the same time while spamming infinite power with low sp and no mods? I havent seen anyone ask for that. Thats basically god mode while putting in little to no effort. How can a MMO game be like that? How can this game be like that? Why not just add 1 button kill everything then? Honestly i stopped reading your post at that part. Because again ive seen no one request that. And if anyone did request it and i missed it well imo those people or person is playing the wrong type of game. What MMO out there allows players to do anything even remotely close to that? I find it very strange that anyone would request that and id question if they have ever played a MMO before or know what the genre is about.
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