Stats Revamp 1.7

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by Avair, Jun 9, 2017.

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  1. Epic Grind Well-Known Player

    First let me state I read your most recent post on this.

    So basically what I'm reading here you're going to release it broken on live and fix it in the future? This is EXACTLY what went wrong with GU 51 and led to the Tunso Test fiasco. We were told that after they release Nature/Electric to live broken they were gonna fix it, more than a year or two later, it was still broken and we got silence from the dev team. This certainly seems like a repeat of that, and I can say with a reasonable amount of certainty that players are not going to tolerate it again and many will leave never to return. Which if this does indeed happen and you release something broken, past mistakes will be repeated yet again and further hurt this game.
    • Like x 7
  2. Trexlight Loyal Player

    You read it wrong. Read his second post Its not going live broken or as it is. The changes they were goign to give the controllers is post pone and will be focusing on bug fixing and adjustments. Cool new changes and stuff will be postponed and given down the line.
  3. BumblingB 10000 Post Club

    I just logged in and went to war-torn area51 and tested on non match NPCs (Minions.) and I'm seeing them breakout from 1-5 seconds. Once in a while I'll find one that will let the duration go, but if you attempt to stun them again, they breakout. I'm not seeing a reverted option, unless that will always be the norm. Because minion class npcs could be stunned w/o breakout. Only Match NPCs could breakout. Bosses of course could not be stunned.

    I also see that Paralytic Dart TPoses the enemy, which is amusing.
  4. Proxystar Devoted Player

    Thanks man
  5. BumblingB 10000 Post Club

    I just ran JFA and the NPCs in there is indicative of what we see in the open world. The same NPC types are breaking out with the same profiles. The commanders are match, so them breaking out is normal, but all adds breakout between 1-5 seconds. Very rarely did I see one go the full duration.

    I suppose I'm more confused, what do the devs consider "rolled back" to? As dom no longer affects control duration and minion class npcs still break out.
    • Like x 1
  6. farm3rb0b Committed Player

    I don't see the issue here. Now, I haven't been in on the testing much this round, but I hopped on tonight and ran around War Torn to get some timings and groups tested and this is my understanding of stuns...

    The n00b NPCs can be stunned to max limit: 6 seconds. These guys don't breakout of the stun, so it lasts the entire duration and they can be re-stunned immediately following the drop off flashing immunity from breakout. There are very few adds in game that allow this. I was lazy and went into Nexus to ensure this is still the case. It is. I think there's confusion as to what "minion" class adds are.

    Match NPCs will let you get 4-5 seconds on a stun. I tested a handful of Light powers on them (Entrap, Grasping Hand, Light Blast, Snap Trap...) and this was the case. I don't understand the idea that you're going to get a max duration stun on these guys. They breakout. The whole point of a breakout is that they do it before the stun duration limit hits. Then, because they broke out, there is a ~5 second window where you cannot re-stun them, just like players get, until the breakout immunity goes away.

    Lieutenant NPCs definitely held a shorter stun. I didn't get a good consistency of testing them to get a good feel for timers, but it felt fine.
  7. monaka Well-Known Player

    With utmost respect, the community did not expect a radical and complete overhaul of the entire game with stats revamp. We have been through too many cycles of revamp/overhaul with major changes in all aspects of game play which weren't necessarily symbiotic or seen in the nature of organic evolution of the game, rather they were all quite disruptive. Your proposed revamp is no different.

    As far as the controller role is concerned, the core mechanic of power healing needs no change at all, it works fine and the question is: if it ain't broke, why fix (break) it?

    The way it is designed at the moment, it fails at its very core mechanic i.e. power healing. I have a huge power pool but I barely can give it all out.

    This is where the development side has a big disconnect with the community. I hope for you to understand some of my concerns and be more open minded and considerate of our viewpoints.

    In the current stats revamp build, my power healing is nearly non existent compared to any previous builds/game updates since the game launched, it has never been so shockingly horrible.

    The idea of auto pot or the current one where any power will activate POT does not live up to the idea of jumping through game play hoops, rather, it's less jumping through any hoops at all. Prior to GU 36, two controllers were a minimum set-up for any group and to be able to double tick and triple tick POT and power healing was highly skill based and managing debuffs was a shared function.

    The only hoops that exist in the present revamp are the ones artificially induced by imposing restrictions on power healing and by limiting the effectiveness of these abilities to be able to perform efficiently one's role.

    If you see the video posted by Fatal Star, the controller power bars take a minor dip when power healing because of the limited amount of power it discharges to the group resulting in everyone else's power bars emptying out in effect causing the controller to focus on spamming instant power dumps which does nothing to help resolve the lack of power either. No amount of spamming helps!

    Surely, your vision has solidified with various builds and you do not see eye to eye with the community on the core mechanics and how and in what manner abilities need to function and possibly there is no middle ground but I still wish to share my personal feedback to you on the over all picture of the penultimate build. I apologize for the use of strong language, it's just how I feel in relation to this upcoming update.

    I like how powers like light and rage function now and they are quite fun to play; I hate how atomic and munitions are playing and for those powers, I have power respec ready to change when it goes live since I don't expect you to make them viable or fun to play with. I really think, sorcery healing needs to be reworked.

    I hate how controller role has been disintegrated.

    I dislike the changes to the supercharges, they were better in the previous build.

    Thank you for your time and consideration.
    • Like x 2
  8. L T Loyal Player

    That's exactly how things are on live. Pretty sure live is what things got rolled back to.

    And yeah, crowd control is kinda broken on live. I'm surprised that people haven't been complaining about it for a long time now. But when CC and controlling were revamped earlier (in stats matter 1.0?) the general reaction was "we didn't ask for this"...

    I'm guessing that the revamp is taking longer than anyone expected or would have wanted. I think it's good that they're taking time to really consider things, but even I'm starting to get impatient. As long as crowd control doesn't get any more broken than it already is I'd say it's probably better to get the current set of improvements debugged and unleashed on live.

    Hopefully a major controller revamp can follow.
  9. BumblingB 10000 Post Club

    I can admit when I was wrong, the profiles on live are the same as on test. What is throwing me off is the duration set. It seems the set 6 seconds is just making it all around shorter.

    See, Match NPCs are Lieutenant NPCs as you put them. They have the counter feints and full counters. What you are classifying as "Match NPC" is still in the minion class. As Biggun will still one shot them.

    I was being thrown off by that when testing. As I'm honest, until today, I didn't test the war torn stuff as a controller on live. Just the AF3 and under. I just went into both areas with my controller build (not great, but will work since it's still significant build) and tested both areas.

    The only "n00b NPCs" are the ones labeled "recruit" and they don't break out. The lieutenant NPCs are "commando" which have a range of 1sec~8sec breakout (which I found odd, but could just been a fluke 8 seconds is a long time for them.) Everything else breaks out on live between 4-8 seconds. The same is in Gotham Underseige.

    So my problem and probably everyone else's problem on test is probably the fact that test has a shorter duration overall on stuns and thus creates a shorter window to breakout of. Enemies that are breaking out on live that are in the 4~8sec range are now breaking out at 1~5 seconds. Which is frustrating. I'm not counting the "lieutenants", just "minion" class.

    A discussion of minion class having breakout profiles is up in the air, since they are on live and I think we all are past the point of arguing to have that changed.

    So to clarify my original statement. The profiles are the same, but they are definitely more "aggressive" because of the windows they are breaking out of. The stun duration being normalized to 6 seconds is probably the culprit.
    • Like x 1
  10. Harlequin Loyal Player

    I see what you did there. :D
  11. light FX 10000 Post Club

    Tell me if im wrong B but i look at the name of the add. There is a face there next to the name and health bar. If they have the white in the eyeball with the squiggly line then its a match add and if its not there they are a minion.

    Correct? When i munitions dps this is how i determine whether to use biggun or not. Its weird to me to see adds being labeled 3 different ways because of this^.
  12. BumblingB 10000 Post Club

    I will have to double check tonight, at work. I squeezed in testing this morning since I wanted to see where I'm getting confused. I'll take screen shots of each one to compare.

    Edit: Judging by Fatal's new signature video, I'd say they don't distinguish much.
  13. light FX 10000 Post Club

    I see it in the 1st 6 mins of that vid. Match adds have the face with the white eyeball by their health bar. Minions have the same face but no white eyeball. Many players dont even notice this or even know its there. The 1st boss also has the face with the white eyeball.
  14. BumblingB 10000 Post Club

    Yep, the commandos, which I said was match, do have a glow eye while cadets and troopers have normal eyes. The cadets can be full stun, the troopers breakout 1-5 seconds.

    If that helps?
  15. light FX 10000 Post Club

    Yea i was just referring to farmerbob labeling em 3 different ways. Ive always understood it as minion, match, boss. And was saying how u can determine which is which. I did see how quickly they were breaking out too. Ive never been a fan of the way enemies in this game break out. U counter a boss and the boss should end up on their back but they instantly break out in mid air. I find it to be ridiculous. And with stuns for the revamp i think it needs to be made clear how stuns are gonna work for trolls. Maybe it has been. I havent read all the posts and feedback. Cause we get told stuff like aggro lasts 12 seconds but i know many who when tanking throw a pull at the boss and the boss runs in the other direction and its not a scripted drop. Point being if we get told things are gonna work this specific way then they better work that way.
    • Like x 1
  16. BumblingB 10000 Post Club

    Right now, stuns got normalized to 6 seconds no matter what, it's 6 seconds. On live, it's a little variable, as some powers stun longer than others and all can be extended with more dominance. Which they removed on test as a factor. So right now, controllers are less of crowd control due to this. They also have no way of extending it. Which in the name of simplification of stats for each role, is fine, but it's is still worse than what we have live.

    I think it is still a scripted attack, just not what you think is. The NPC that goes for another person is scripted to complete whatever it is before going to the tank. Be it a weapon combo or stun, they are to finish it. (I've been smacked down by staff NPCs as they are the worst at showing that. lol ) The tank still has aggro.

    I think the only time this is different are bosses like Ares or Phoenix, where they are proximity based hate. They go and attack the nearest enemy. They probably are still aggro'd to the tank, but they're programmed to attack nearest target.
  17. light FX 10000 Post Club

    Nope. I know what scripted attacks are and ive spoken to so many tanks ingame about this. Certain bosses will just ignore your pull at times. Especially in SM. Those bosses drop aggro way faster then 12 seconds.
  18. DrAfropunk New Player

    So as an OP power for heals i get a feeling im about to be dethroned. Maybe we should be given respec token? All in all though it seems decent. Havent played myself but seen a few videos. Just hope i dont have to drop $50 to respec my chars.

    I think a better move would have been just single roll powers. Even if all my armories become useless. Been wishing for that for 5+ years now so I wont hold my breathe. Maybe DCUO2.
  19. Lord Jareth Devoted Player

    shouldn't hold you breath from a dcuo 2, Dcuo 2 will not be happening.
  20. Fatal Star Devoted Player

    So for the power discrepancy, I decided it may be a good idea to go ahead and put power in every stat bubble (besides prec maybe). Reason being: dps get the luxury of being able to get two beneficial stats in one, even as hybrid, while support roles have to dump it in two different bubbles to get the same benefits.

    If you could find a way to make it so the 10% stat buff on power is only applied to when you spec one bubble and doesn't stack with others, then every stat having power attached to it won't be an issue at all.
    • Like x 1
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