Stats Revamp 1.7: Nature

I dont like Wolf and Insectoid being Supercharges. Short duration+ time wasted to transform will make them obsolete.

All previous Poison DoTs sharing same stack turns single target powers completely useless now.

This is actually even worse than Gadget 1.1 version.

My advise is to revert Nature back to Live version and work on the numbers not at power interactions.
Both dps and healing side are terrible now.

I just want to say I like the idea of Wolf/Insectoid being SCs, however a short duration time plus nerfed buffs will make these useless. Keep transformations the way they are live, give the players an alternative/similar buff for those that don't wish to use transformations.
I'm not understanding why DoTs are so difficult to fix lol. Whats on live is slow setup with no payoff, so shouldn't the answer be faster damage ticks? What we're using live are 2 separate loadouts and heavy weapon usage. Nature DPS are literally using twice as many powers than everyone else per fight. We have to work twice as hard just to only slightly keep up with everyone else's damage out.
I'm not a fan of spam healing and I'm not a fan of the "big heal but consume HoT" healing. Please keep healing as similar to live as possible, just without the ridiculous power back.

Ok, I avoided testing until everything was on test to ensure there were no excuses from being heard. I'm starting with Sorcery and Nature then going on release order of the others. I've played all of these powers on live and on test and have a lot of experience with the healing role in the games most difficult content. Since this is basically the end of testing phase, until these powers go live I expect some feedback from these posts to understand why certain things are because the state of some of these powers are miles off from being ready.

First things first, bugs;

• Metabolism actual power effect does not apply to the caster but it does apply to everyone else

• Flourish pheromone stack does not activate on the caster, everyone else receives the stack. The interaction with consuming works fine on caster and group members.

TL;DR, Nature Healing is being made a lot harder to use than it is on live, you'll need to juggle your power uses to make sure you can always have access to Blossom PI Healing, I think it's too harsh because a key applier of this PI has been removed and might make the power set not worth the headache in playing because Electric and Celestial are miles easier using. We need an easier way to keep up pheromones for the Blossom Healing due to long cooldowns on big healing abilities. Without this we need another ability or two created to compensate healing without the pheromone PI like Roar to provide some consistency.

Ok, I appreciate what you've tried to do with the update to Natures healing, it requires more skill to manage your pheromones for the 'big' blossom heal since you're limited in selection of how to apply them since the two reliable options, bloom and flourish have relativity long cooldowns and metabolism i think only applies to four people.

On top of this you're trying to make it so you're not as reliant on the PI with blossom to heal, the change to bloom with an initial burst element is a very nice change and I think it would be nice to see it on the other cast time abilities because you receive a nice burst and can jump cancel out of it to use other abilities, it sets up the PI with blossom as well if anymore burst is needed.

Healing with nature is going to seem mediocre because your big healing moves - Bloom, Cross Pol and Flourish have fairly long cooldowns and Cross Pol as well as Flourish do not seem that strong to use, I would suggest increasing the HoTs you put out from consuming the Pheromone PI AND keep the initial burst it puts out.

Roar is an ability I think without nature would struggle tremendously , this is an 8man 1.5CD burst heal which heals more than the priority heal, you are stuck in the animation for it but the output you receive is more than worth the risk using it. I am unsure what I want to happen to this ability because compared to other abilities in other power sets it is completely unfair but without how it is now, nature would struggle due to how the rest of the power set is now.

Another issue is the weak PI Healing with Blossom BECAUSE it takes so long to put this PI back onto people AND the duration of the PI isn't that long which can lead to some consistency issues in healing because you need to juggle your cooldowns properly to make sure you get the best bang for your buck.

I think the removal of Savage Growth is another reason the PI Healing consistency issues arrive, this ability was the foundation of being able to apply the PI for blossom, it's removal leaves a big hole specifically because it was an 8man HoT and gave a pheromone stack to everyone, I think if Flourish gets buffed in either as I suggested above or lowering it's cooldown it'd be a big help filling the gap of what we lose from Savage Growths removal.

Nature doesn't need as many changes as Sorcery does, but it does need help in ways to ensure that Blossom PI healing can be used consistently, this power set will be much more complex than how it is on live and I think that's a good thing but making it too complex can be a huge downfall because of how easy and accessible Electric and Celestial are currently on test.

Just remember, the Blossom PI Healing is the main excuse as to why there can be less healing abilities in Nature, the main output in Healing is this PI but if you remove the ease of being able to utilize the PI then you need to add more abilities like Roar which do things without reliance of Pheromones.

You guys really , really need to listen to this guy.

I don't know another Nature player that knows the power inside out on live like Crappy does and as a Nature player myself I agree with his above assessment and the phrase highlighted in yellow!

Thanks man and i just dont understand why all these crazy changes to things that work fine the way they are but just needed damage adjustments. Like live server nature works fine but the previous devs just refused to bring the damage up to par, same issue elec on live server has.

All nature really needs from its live server state to work well in the stats matter meta is damage adjustments, a 300 cost burst power and bring the number of dots down to 2 to make room for a super and thats really it but for some reason things keep getting over complicated.

Look at all the time spent on changing thorn burst around all these times.....the way it works on live is perfect and why it was even touched has me confused. Thats time wasted that could have been spent on something more constructive.

Nature dps, you put dots out spread/refresh them end of story. Such a simple thing but yet here we are months later still having issues for some reason. As a nature player and having my power completely suck for the last 3 years cause of neglect and broken promises im about to loose it here lol

And healing...this is such a simple thing to....like wheres my savage growth heal?? Again simple formula you put out pheromones/hots then consume them for a big heal. florish is basically harvest and should not consume pheromones. Harvest was made that way for power issues and healing efficiency. The only thing that should consume pheromones should be blossom. We put lots of work over the last years really dialing nature heals in only to have that work undone for this less appealing and efficient way of healing.

The method of how nature heals work on live is also just fine and the version on test has me a bit concerned. The removal of savage growth.....like common now thats crazy. Bring savage growth back and make florish not consume your pheromones. Thats not all the issues with healing i have but just some of my concerns at the moment.

The healing formulas with dom vs resto also have me very concerned. The healing formula should be just like on live not this dom effects this heal and resto effects that heal stuff thats going on now. Thats over complicating things for no reason.

Ok.. I see what y'all are trying to do here... I do like the consume for burst option over spreading if I had to choose.

But it really doesn't work with 1 stack... You need 2 to make it work right.. actually I think 2 will be perfect... your fighting your self constantly wasting time and prevents flow and makes to many powers worthless. IMO.

Roar being a must have heal power is not right... The animation is to long and awkward. Roar is fine if your in wolf form dps but still awkward... but it really looks and feels bad in human heal form... especially on a female character.

Right now on live being forced to be a bug to be a amazing heal is annoying... I actually like the forms being supercharges but they need last a longer amount of time and probably need to be buffed up a little to make them worth using.

Nature didn't get the attention from y'all during the initial revamp release so I hope y'all will give it more attention and love right now. We have waited years for this.

Ive been saying that the trade off for longer set up time should be higher sustained dps.
Obviously Devs dont consider this or Nature would have been buffed a Live server long ago. Instead they want to make all power sets to work the same way with same abilities, same set up and everything mirroring each other. Carbon Copy Universe!

Plus Revamp is too far gone for such a radical change to be introduced right at the end with Nature.

I have to admit I actually like the forms being SC now. They are pretty cheap so can be used frequently, and they are actualy buffs now which is neat. Wolf Form also has its claw combos back which is something I've been asking for. It's a bit sad to lose the forms as regular movement mode replacements or dual loadout rotations but overall I think this is a good change.

About the dots I won't get too deep because I haven't spent a lot of time with Nature on test and I'm not a competitive Nature player on live. I do think that stacking and spreading poison is an important part of Nature's identity/flavor so I support the requests to turn poison into two stacks and return the spreading mechanic to what it used to be.
As for more burst I'd rather have a couple of powers that do enhanced burst damage on targets with poison stacks than being forced to repeatedly setup and consume my dots. Consuming dots/hots for a burst tick is a neat mechanic but I think it should be available as a niche option instead of a core mechanic of how poison especially works.
It would be cool to instantly burst away all of my remaining dot ticks when targets are close to dying and won't live to see the dot running out naturally. In the same way it has always been nice on live to burst away my pheromones with Blossom for an emergency heal. But I wouldn't want this to be the only way to utilize dots at the cost of the stacking/spreading/extending mechanics.

i think i speak for a lot of nature dps's if i say: Gime my DOTs back!
not this crap that gives hundreds of damage but serious meaningful damage over time.
ty

i think it's safe to say that a good loadout with bugform was already working swell but that electric and nature got the blunt end of the stats debuff stick. nature and other healers barring celestial are just lacking in defensive and offensive stats. that's all thats wrong with them. why must nature and other healing support roles be weak when besides the tank their the ones who are most likely to end up in the middle of the battlefield? and for that matter do people shoot medics in wars?

I do not agree with form changes being supers.

Nature healing:

I found blossom and flourish to be extremely weak. The healing needs to be about HoT stacking like it has been since the beginning with the addition of metabolism. There is a reason why metabolism was added to nature because it was under-performing in the beginning. Return nature to what it was when metabolism was added. Make harvest our heal again. Make flourish a 8 man instant heal and we will be in good shape. Also a heal on roar is NOT appropriate..

Besides the bugs with Metabolism and Flourish being pointed out already, I'm glad the burst heals got adjusted slightly back to its original design. As soon those bugs have been solved I'm sure its in a solid spot. So props for the changes from 1.6 to 1.7.

I dont think people need to be in bug to be an "amazing heal" on live at all. I healed w/it long before the bug form thing with pwr happened and i never had issues. Ive been healing in human form w/it for most of this dlc cause i dislike bug and wanna get back to healing in human form. I still heal the alerts with no troll and the raids with 1 troll w/out problem. I feel way to many nature healers rely on bug form on live atm. Spam away and not even pay attention is what ya see most people doing I really dislike the changes to nature here. I agree where ya said the DoTs need 2 stacks at least. Im just really confused on how they think this solves the setup time problem. I really hope they rethink a lot of this.

There is a difference between a good healer and a spam healer. I heal in bug form but I don't see the need to spam. My power bar stays full. Using bug form doesn't equate to not having skill. It's the preferred method because it is efficient. However, I never agreed to this hive mind AM. I asked them 10000000000x to just fix power cost before this AM was put in but no they never listened. Now we got this bs hive mind AM on Live that I highly dislike. I would like to be able to heal in bug form without WM and without bug.

Hivemind should not be needed to heal. It isn't even that bug of a buff.

How nature was when the game first started needs to be implemented. This cruft they added is terrible. I personally do not like these changes to nature. They are horrible.

To be clear... I'm not talking about spamming heals like a noob.

I'm talking about healing under leveled under skilled groups and bad tanks with no troll... I have other toons .. I've been Sorcery and Celestrial and they will not do the same job and natures human form as great as it is will not do the same job because when the power runs out the power runs out.

Anyone that says bug form isn't the most OP heal on Live is either a noob, has no clue because they never used it or is straight up lying.

Well i certainly wasnt saying its not OP. It definitely is because of the power back. That is obvious. I think we are gonna see so many nature healers switch powers or get exposed w/out that power back in bug form. The forms being SC i cant wrap my head around. SCs should be powerful and meaningful. Dont see that here with this. And i dont wanna sound rude towards the devs but imo it sounds like whoever came up with these changes has never played nature. Nature dps on live is fine atm if the DoTs were simply buffed or ticked a lot faster.

I dont think being in bug form makes someone a bad healer at all. I heal in bug form too and dont spam. But u know as well as i do there are a lot who rely on it. It should of never happened in the 1st place because now when its changed many nature heals will struggle w/out it. Last sentence u said i would like to heal in bug form w/out WM and w/out bug. How can ya heal in bug form w/out bug form? Am i misunderstanding? Typo? I so agree on power costs being fixed. It was all that was needed back in the day and things would of been fine. Instead we go through this 2.5 years or so since then of change after change. And they ended up doing it anyway, but way down the road when it didnt even matter anymore. And now its all being undone Sometimes there is a simple fix and people greatly overthink things.

they should have just given the whole powers issue to shinymackeral and let him come up with the solution in consultation with people like crappy and other super invested power gurus, SIPG's for short.

cause most of the stuff im reading across the powers is really really reallllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllly concerning and underwhelming and the last thing this game can afford is a revamp with alienates people and sets things back to the stone age.

tbh, im not holding my breath.

My thinking is the Supercharge forms just need to last longer and be buffed. like adding a strong pot when bug is active that way it never would or could be the only right answer. Yes it's not the only answer right now but that doesn't mean that couldn't change..
I spent way to much time getting styles and auras to be stuck as a bug.. i Honestly think Nature should be a Poison Ivy type power set not this Poison Ivy Beast boy hybrid IMO

The problem with just increased dot damage to what's on Live and calling that the update...

If dots are strong enough to keep up on ads with other dps before ads die then it's OP on bosses..

If it's the damage is set correctly for the boss fight then you can't keep up with other dps on ads. By the time you set up they are dead.

We need this New mechanism for ads... but it needs to be tweaked to 2 stacks and still have the burst trigger mechanism on at least 1 power and I would love to still have 1 spreading power as well..
but if I had to choose between spreading the 2 stacks or having a burst trigger for the 2 stacks I would choose the burst trigger... Obviously both would be optimal.

I dont disagree with what you're saying. Its been so long for nature to be fixed and it could of happened so long ago and to see it like this now is really disappointing. I just want em to get it right. 2 years and this is the fix? Tbh im starting to think get rid of the DoT mechanic completely with nature and make it all burst. Maybe what you're saying could work. But after all this time i see it as they cant make it work/fix it. Its just frustrating playing nature for this long and waiting and waiting and waiting and we wait all this time and its this all DoTs are the same DoT that dont stack and then consume?

If its 2 stacks and we could spread em and choose to refresh or consume em then yea that would be cool. Not sure if they will do that tho. I also think it would be cool to refresh em and consume for that extra dmg at the right time. Also the longer u keep em up the more dmg it does on the consume. But that could maybe end up being too OP, idk.