Stats Revamp 1.7: Mental

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by Shin-O-B, Jun 9, 2017.

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  1. stärnbock Devoted Player

    i dont like to wait for the tendrills to hit the targets before you can exploit terror.
    if you could exploit terror with tendrills, you could set it up with mass terror maybe.
    at distance, you could even throw tendrills first and setup terror afterwards and still exploit...
    well, thats just my oppinion. maybe thats exactly the backlash of using tendrills devs had in mind ^^'
  2. FlreMint Active Player

    FireMint reporting again.

    I tried several rotation alternatives surrounding the Thought Bubble + Pyrokinesis exploit. I would like to clarify that the exploit has to do with the Encasement PI and not with the specific powers, Gadgets has its own version using Stasis Field + Self Destruct, and there are other cross power variants, for example, Hardlight can also encase multiple enemies and Atomic has a multiple encasements exploding power. There are other issues regarding the Encasements like:

    -Encasements Behave like objects:
    *Encased Enemies are protected from player damage. Not as if they were shielded but as if they were using Clownbox, when encased the adds transform into the Encasement, an object.
    * Encasement CC can be broken by group members, either with weapon attacks or some powers, when players break the Encasement *Object* the enemy is simply set free.

    -Encased Enemies might be scattered all over the area. I haven’t tested this on test server yet, but it seems like this is a solved issue, enemies encased in balls do not even roll, nice.




    My rotations:
    #1 Thought Bubble, Pyrokinesis, repeat
    #2 Thought Bubble, Pyrokinesis, Terror Tendrils (every other rotation because of power consumption)
    #3 Thought Bubble, Pyrokinesis, Staff Downward smash combo (Failed, the weapon combo CC scattered the sparring targets, messing with the Encasement Exploit)
    #4 Thought Bubble, Pyrokinesis, Terror Tendrils every other rotation, Dual Pistol Full Auto
    #5 Thought Bubble, Pyrokinesis, Menace, Dual Pistol Full Auto

    #1 39k/s
    #2 49k/s
    #4 58k/s
    #5 43k/s

    -I got a 61k/s on 70secs back on my previous post when doing the #2 rotation hmm no idea why.
    -Terror Tendrils do great damage yes, but: this only applies when there are multiple, slow enemies in front of the player, in a narrow space, they move slowly and take some time to reach enemies, they have one of the few animation that roots you in place, jumping won't let you move an inch during the full animation... similar animations are supressor turret summoning and tezla ball (please fix this). I think Terror Tendrils should be looked at but they are balanced in my opinion, they behave just like they did before WM and 99% of mental DPS never used them, but mass terror instead. Note that back then Terror Tendrils used to both apply and benefit from terror PI so if anything they have already been nerfed.

    I know fixing Encasements is no simple task, they need to stop behaving like objects so adds are not protected and players dont break adds out of the CC but they also need to keep behaving like objects, so that encased adds can be thrown at each other using Telekinesis or Polarized PIs.

    Regarding the Encasement damage PI, and Encasement weapoization, I believe they should stay, and they should remain the strongest PI in the game, as it has always been, just not as strong as it currently is. The reasons for this are:

    -They would normally involve precise Controller-DPS coordination (the damage credit could be splitted between the 2 of them). Every other PI lasts for about 10 seconds, encasements don't, in fact, the controller could try and encase adds and fail to do so if the adds are immune which seems to be the most common case on the revamp. This is a 'rare' PI.
    -Exploding Encasements sacrifices the crowd control effect, increased damage is to be expected in return.

    This took longer than I expected... I hope my time and the information I have provided help this game improve, even if its just a bit.

    Your secret admirer

    • Like x 1
  3. FlreMint Active Player

    Horrific visage:
    -Description says 'Enemies that get near the target are stunned and can become twisted as well'. This curently only applies on controller stance, make it so DPS can have it stun and set terror PI on multiple enemies as well. (Sidenote: Make Terror PI purple again por favor).
    -It is a terrible option for a supercharge generator, some healer powers are purely for healing, controllers powers do not have many controller-only powers except for recharge and the shield-power supercharge*. But I believe most mental players will agree with me that Horrific Visage is a very, VERY controller-ish power, not very useful as DPS, and this is ok. I suggest switching the supercharge generator to Psychic Prison - which is a useful power on both roles - lower it's base damage a bit, and also make it apply or benefit from a PI, it is really plain as it is... and lower Horrific Visage's power cost.

    *Shield-Power Supercharges, namely Bastion, Event Horizon, Battle Drone, Group Shielding and Active Protection Shielding, along with EVERY GROUP SHIELD (Group Transducer, Sacrifice and Mass Density...) are Suport-Only. This is because shields DO NOT STACK IN DCUO, meaning that if you, as a DPS, pop Bastion just after the controller's Bastion was activated, you just countered your controller, you replaced a solid shield with wet toilet paper. This is something that should be addressed on the Revamp, I dont think shields should stack, but make it so the shield with the strongest remaining shielding value overrides other shields. This way, DPS could still use controller shields to provide protection (weak, but it's something...) to group members, along with some (small amount, however still valuable) power, without the risk of getting everyone killed, if the controller shield was already active the DPS will only override it if his (DPS) shield is stronger than the remaining shielding from the controller shield, for every single group member. This issue was already taken care of on Gadgets Battle Drone, which only provides a shield on controller role and has extra damage for the DPS version. It'd be great to have a similar treatment for the rest of the shields.

    I may have exagerated with the colors this time... oh well, remember, RED is for Fire, BLUE is for Mint.

    Kyon-kun, denwa~

  4. Ala Rebeldex Loyal Player

    Mental right now is a "one trick pony". Tendrils its too good and the other abilities are still lacking (specially the short Dots).
    My suggestions are:
    - Adjust the damage of Terror Tendrils to the rest of the 200 cost moves.
    - Buff the damage of the Dot moves.
    - Give Mental a long 12 secs Dot move.
    - Give back the Dot damage to Psychic Shock.
    - Buff a lil bit the damage of the Superchage generator move (Its not appeiling with that lackluster damage).
  5. L T Devoted Player

    Mass levitation seems weak for a 200 cost DOT. These other powers might be doing slightly weak base damage as they don't seem to have particularly short animations:
    • Pyrokineses
    • Cryokinesis
    • Mass Terror
    The rest of the abilities seem to be right in line with other power sets. Psychic Prison is a 12 second DOT now, and stealth gives a really nice extra punch. Need to check which abilities other than Pain Blast will trigger it. Speaking of Pain Blast, it's massive single-target damage now.

    I think mental has a really nice flavor right now, with transforming the PIs. Unfortunately, I don't think it's going to wind up being practical as it's implemented, because you can find yourself stealing PIs from other players. Maybe have Pyro and Cryo add instead of transform.
  6. Ala Rebeldex Loyal Player

    Agreed on Pain Blast, it really packs a punch.
    Prison only does 8 ticks of damage, and the other decent Dot is Phantom Flames, which isnt great damage,ill rather just cast another Tendrils instead.

    I think that if u want to exploit the encase mechanic, the only thing u need is Pyro and be sure that u are running with a troller to help with the encase part.

    Overall, this Dots of Mental feel really weak, and seem pointless when u have a power like Tendrils in your loadout IMO.
  7. Mepps Sr. Community Manager

    Posts above this one have been reviewed by the team.
  8. Mighty Committed Player

    I think before any major changes are made to mental (other than looking into that thing where mental guy wipes my dazed PI), terror tendrils have to get a look at both their not splitting damage, and the bounce ability. One cast of tendrils will hit the three targets for a combined 39,000 -- and that's if they don't bounce and double their damage!

    Maybe it's time to dust off psychic blades?
    • Like x 2
  9. FlreMint Active Player

    On a second thought, just make shields stackeable, like they usually are on other games. If the animations could also stack and if we could have an indicator of the strength of the total current shielding (a number under the shield symbol under the HP-Power-Supercharge bar, and/or to have the HP bar increase with the shielding ammount in grey) that would be great.

    I am aware I am being extremely demanding, but only because I love you, son.

    Yeah I'm just copy-pasting quotes from now on... I did come up the first ones tho

    With deepest regards

    The Lannisters.
  10. stärnbock Devoted Player

    lets take a look at the style of the power and talk about pure cosmetics for a while:
    maybe if pyro would look like a telekinetic bolt (an energy wave in a wide cone shape) but instead of purple, be fire red instead... cryokinesis could look the same as telekinetic push (energy wave in a tight cone) in frost blue (and hit similar multiple targets)? i mean, no offence but: mental is a rather boring looking power, shooting basicly around ten rays just in different colors... mass hysteria: the ghosts you are spawning are cool, ok ^^ but how do others like the transformation? i realy hate that form change ^^' menace: got the same animation of the healing SC... ok, that is an awesome looking SC, but i dont know... do you remember the aura we had, when mentals SC came out first? not the one we have on live atm, i mean: the first, when the AM was new... that aura would be looking awesome both for the healing and the hysteria SC... at least in my oppinion...
  11. stärnbock Devoted Player

    i meant the first AM effect, the aura you got when resonance was actived.
    always hated how the 2nd AM effect covered the whole head all the time...
  12. FlreMint Active Player

    If we make those 2 powers into energy waves we would have too many energy waves :/ which quantum also has. I say let them stay as rays but make them more impressive, the purple base has to stay, pyro is a purple ray with a surrounding yellow spiral, psychic shoc is a purple ray with a static-ish spiral, the conceps are good just make them more impressive, a brighter purple with a brighter yellow or blue.

    About Horrific Visage... 'Disturb your target at its very core, damaging it and twisting it into a monster that cannot defend itself' says the description, in battle we have these adds who may or not have just engaged in combat, when suddently they are 'disturbed to their very core'... I dont know... it would seem to me that those ghosts are rather chill, so why dont we add the terror stun animation only to their upper part, let them wonder around just like they do, only while shaking and grabing their heads, this wont change its functionality, just make them look more... disturbed.
    • Like x 1
  13. stärnbock Devoted Player

    yeah, they rather look bored than terrified ^^ lol! btw: last time i checked, it was stated horrific visage hits 8 targets? does it?
    anyways, i like the purple too, but atm, only telekinetic push and bolt use those energy waves (just the cone wide is different),
    i guess it would be easier to just recolor them, than to make new beam effects, also why is it a beam if it hits everything in side?
    but thats only an idea of course, and only my oppinion ;) pls forum folks: tell me if you like the visuals or not ^^
  14. FlreMint Active Player

    It hits 1 target but can transform up to 7 more near targets. This currently only applies in controller role (fix needed here).
    • Like x 1
  15. FlreMint Active Player

    FireMint here

    I jumped on test today to check the new Terror Tendrils, as usual, the patchnotes are vague... they do not 'die' on collision, they explode, and that is pretty cool, their damage is more consistent now, the 3 tendrils will explode when hitting a target or a wall, or when their duration has ended. When exploding, each tendril deals damage in a small AoE, the same target will not take damage from more than 1 tendril, damage splits after 2 targets, so that gets rid of the damage exploit, I have to thank the dev team, to be honest I thought you killed this great power when I read the patch note.

    Then I sought to compare their damage with similar powers, Electricity's Spark Barrage, Sorcery's Soult Storm and Sorcery's Soul Barrage, they are essentially the same power, all of them cost 200 base power but Spark Barrage, which is 100 base power. I also got some other mental moves to compare. I casted each power 20 times and then divided the total damage done by 20 to get the mean damage done per cast.

    cr: 201
    Might: 22090
    125% Critical Ability Strike Damage
    25% Critical Ability Strike Chance


    Terror Tendrils, Spark Barrage, Soul Storm and Soul barrage are projectile abilities, they should have higher damage than other abilities since they might miss their target, similarly to the recent buff to Electricity's Electrogenesis to account for the aura bearers dying before the full duration of the ability. Sorcery moves seem to take this into consideration, Terror Tendrils damage needs to be in line with these powers.

    Mass Levitation and Pyrokinesis should do more damage than Cryokinesis, since they are DoTs.

    Thought Bubble is dazing enemies, the description says nothing about that.

    Pyrokinesis and Psychic Shock animations do not match the damage ticks.

    Enhanced Invisibility is still OP, increased movement speed, immunity to crowd control effects and an impenetrable shield for 6 seconds makes it objectively superior to Grandeur and Telekinetic Shield, and every other shield in the game, the only exception would be Gadget's Enhanced Stealth... which is doing exactly the same

    Horrific Vissage is a terrible choice for a Supercharge Generator since it is a controller power, not very useful for DPS, Supercharge Generators need to be useful for both roles, Psychic Prison would be the best choice, in my opinion.

    Please bring Terror PI back to Mental's Color Palette.

    Spark Barrage is a 100 base power projectile ability but as you can see, it does less damage than Psychic Shock which is a 100 base power ability as well, although not a projectile. That is Electricity's problem, I know, still Im making a note here.

    Stay fresh my friends

    • Like x 2
  16. McShotzz Well-Known Player

    Noticed that after exiting the Mass Hysteria SC for a brief moment the user has the terror pi animation on thier head
  17. McShotzz Well-Known Player

    And is thier any reason the damage from horrific visage is spread out among 3 lackluster pitiful hits. Makes the mive very awkward and underwhelming to use, also never been a fan of the controller effect of it.
  18. stärnbock Devoted Player

    horrific visage was chosen i guess because of the mass hysteria SC? one creates ghosts, the other sets them free... i guess.
    however: wasnt't thought bubble once a troll debuff? dunno, but: it would fit better for the bubbles is more like the troll shield SC.
    otherwise: i realy like to have a troll debuff as SC generator, because you dont have much room for anything else in your troll loadout.
    also i guess as a troll with that high amount of power consume, there is no way you dont have the SC gen and SC used asap... a lot...
  19. FlreMint Active Player

    My guess is because this is a troll-exclusive power... we can have it do more damage if the CC effect is removed in DPS stance, but that would suck since I am sure most Mental fans would agree that Horrific Viage is an essential Mental power and being able to stun with it on DPS stance helps survival a lot trough solos and duos. It should not be the supercharge generator... either Thought Bubble or Psychic Prison would be better supercharge generator options. Thought Bubble should be able to debuff again, and since the crushing PI was taken away from it, give it another PI.

    • Like x 1
  20. McShotzz Well-Known Player

    Even in troll role over the years personally ive never liked horrific, and now that its the SC generator just really bugs me. Even now i use the PI conversion for terrified over it.
    • Like x 1
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