Stats Revamp 1.7 - Light

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by spord, Jun 9, 2017.

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  1. spord Developer

    Hey everyone, we’re back with another set of Stats Revamp updates! This thread is for feedback specific to Light powers. Before testing, please read the notes for our general changes here.

    The biggest concern from Light players was power usage when playing from the tray. This should no longer be an issue for players that purchase the Power Mastery box as well as points into the Might box. It is important to note that when you purchase Might you will also get some Power too.

    Most of the other changes made were related to the Ability Output Update section of Avair's post. Here are a few of the changes:
    • Fan & Impact - These now have unique icons instead of sharing icons with Flight abilities
    • Recharge - Increased Controller Group Weapon Buff bonus to 20%, up from 10%
    • The following abilities cone attacks now have a wider angle:
      • Fan, Minigun, Ram, Impact

    Upcoming patch notes-
    • Recharge's base power cost is supposed to be 300 now
    • Like x 1
  2. Mighty Committed Player

    Spord, so far I've only tested at the dummies tonight with no PoT running, and I seemed to blow through a lot of power playing from the tray with power regen up. By that, I mean after going Chompers, weapon tap, Ram-Whip/Fan-Impact/Spike, weapon tap/Ram~, I was empty usually in about 8-9 seconds. Just to be clear on terminology, when you talk about light from the tray are you thinking about a Power-Construct/Power-Construct~ approach, or going deeper into the combo chain from each ability before clipping?

    Initial reaction is, power still feels a little thirsty on power costs, but it's difficult to gauge that without a POT up. I think light'l be interesting because there's real ability to throttle up when the power is good, and back it off when it's not, I love that. Also, I think it'll be a real boss-melter with stacking grasping hand and snap dots. Excited to play that.

    Results-wise, Chompers+Ram-Whip/Fan-Impact/Spike~ at 17,276 might and full crits I fell in the 24-26k range consistently. I think I could push that with two trolls, I'll try and rope some in this weekend. Didn't have a ton of time to play with different approaches tonight because I had to build a new toon, etc. Will update over the weekend. Thanks for the work all of you have put into this update, and thanks for listening. It's a helluva lot of fun to clip again. :)
    • Like x 1
  3. Polythesis Active Player

    There is a bug on chainsaw tap x 5 times and hold melee until chainsaw holds in the air, then tap x5 again and repeat and repeat (however there is no power regen after the hold) - it does not go into light claws as it is supposed to.

    Got it to go into light claws, but still you can chain chainsaw infinitely (without power regen - so until it runs out)
  4. Swiftduck Loyal Player

    that is not a bug. YOu have always been able to infinitely chain the chainsaw.
    • Like x 2
  5. Mighty Committed Player

    With two trolls I'm hitting in the 28-33k range pretty consistently at 17,303 might. I bump the bottom of the power barell after a few rotations, but I'm able to meter my usage by varying speeds. Not sure what the other powers are hitting by comparison but on its own this feels pretty good.
    • Like x 1
  6. Mighty Committed Player

    Wrapped up a solid night of rotation testing thanks to Hollow Dreamz lending me his trolls. All in all, I like where light is at right now. It has this old school feel to it, I can clip and play fast, or I can lean into my channel abilities and let my power regen. Really the only thing I'd change is that I'd suggest just the slightest power reduction on constructs combos, or alternatively, bumping the regen slightly. I wouldn't trim it any more than say from 100 to 75. Specced full 175 SP into might, with two trolls spamming power, and using only 200-cost tray abilities, I was still reaching for my soder at cr 189 after a few rotations. Just a nudge and light from the tray I think is in a really good place. Also ballistic assault seems to work really well at putting up good DPS while allowing your blue bar to bounce back. Outside a slight adjustment to power consumption/regen, you guys did well on the tray stuff. This is the happiest I've been after a light update like ... ever. Really, thank you Spord and co.

    I'll spend some more time tomorrow playing around with a weapons-based loadout and other stuff, then I'll do a bug check on PIs and stuff to try and give light a thurough look since it seems like I'm the light feedback guy on this go-round.
  7. Rubsarb Level 30

    Light is feeling a bit better, but there are a couple issues I'm seeing regarding risk/reward.

    For example, why does boxing gloves hit for so much less than claw when they both require lunging the enemy? This goes for alot of the melee type attacks HL has.

    I recall earlier in the stats revamp that the scaling of damaging superpowers will also be dependent on the risk/reward during execution. In simpler terms, the more risky the move, the greater damage the move should do. Case in point, light claws is one of HL's strongest attacks, but that makes sense since it requires lunging towards the enemy (literally right next to them). This should apply to boxing gloves, chainsaw, etc.

    Currently on test, there is no reason to ever contemplate using any melee type HL superpowers since the risk/reward aspect isn't there.
    • Like x 1
  8. Swiftduck Loyal Player

    not even entrap (swing)?

    Currently on live its the hardest hitting ability melee wise. Is this still not the case for HL? It was the last time i checked but this was a couple months ago and i no longer have pts installed to check.
  9. Rubsarb Level 30

    Claw, for example, hits hard and rightfully so. However, chainsaw, boxing gloves, etc should also hit for just as hard given those moves require being next to the target to execute.

    On a bigger note, I don't think more power cost = higher damage is always a good metric. Risk/reward is another variable that should be considered. For example, boxing gloves should hit as hard as a 300 power cost move, but at a lower cost since the risk is dying is much greater. If the risk/reward variable isn't included, there is never really a good reason to use melee moves in general given the much higher risk of death.
    • Like x 3
  10. Mighty Committed Player

    I've tested dozens of DPS setups now, all told maybe 10-12 hours, and I really can't find anything that I'd ask to be changed, especially considering the love some of the other powersets need. I mean, maybe chainsaw seems a little light on the damage, but entrap+swing makes up for it. We have good ranged AOE to AOE combos - which was the HL issue pre-AM. We have a solid DPS super in ballistic assault. A person can infinite combo and do modest damage, or clip and do great DPS. I'm not handcuffed by powerpoints. It's all there. I still have ongoing concerns about power cost in general, but push come to shove I'd really rather take the tradeoff of increased damage potential at the cost of power economy. If light went live as is, I'd be pretty happy.

    Personally, since GU36 I have not shied away from being critical of the development team. Hopefully the criticism was mostly constructive - even though I acknowledge it wasn't at times - but it was always coming from a place of love for this game, and love for the hard light powerset and specifically a fast-paced playstyle. That said, I think you have to give the good with the bad feedback. Again, great job on this revamp and bringing lanterns back the pace of play most of us fell in love with. Thank you for listening to us.
  11. Cyro Committed Player

    Any chance chainsaw can be changed so it doesnt lunge like frenzy?
  12. AbBaNdOn_IGN Committed Player

    Whats the problem with that? Its melee, how do you expect to close distances between kills when your doing chainsaw combos????

    Thats one reason why I dont use it on live, it cant track targets for crap or close distances, so your just stand around swinging a chainsaw and hitting nothing...

    Maybe I used it wrong on live... I would start combo chains with it... If it was 2nd move you would gain mobility with it? happens often enough where ur infinite chain is interrupted or you and your target get seperated, and you need to jump right back on them. Strong tracking and closing only helps the melee powers.

    The only reason I can see for chainsaw not to track and close distances is so you can move through instances and get from one group of ads to the next relatively easily. There are already other powers for that, especially on assault side. So I dont understand why you want a melee power to perform worse at melee...
  13. L T Devoted Player

    All that's true, but light seems kind of broken to me with no ability to counter using combos.

    Light was designed, from the get-go, to be play from the tray. Your ring is your weapon. Having to stop my combos because I need to lunge wrecks it. Lots of the powers are vulnerable to interrupt-- that's really only ok if you can use them to block break.
  14. Mighty Committed Player

    I feel you, but the ability to counter with constructs is relatively new. Don't get me wrong, I was a big proponent of getting them in there, especially after they slapped vulnerability to block on chainsaw. The thing is, though, if I'm not mistaken ability to counter and the vulnerability to counter was removed with the update. I just watched some video I've taken on test and it bears out, I'm not vulnerable to counter while in construct, I think light blast being the exception, again I'd have to go back and look, but 35ers are traditionally vulnerable, and for good reason. The other thing to consider is, under the old Tunso AM, if you stopped your infinite combo for any reason you were penalized in some fashion or another. Here there's no ramp-up, no precision neck mod to charge, you can jump in and out of construct damage as combat dictates. It's really a great design and address so many of the issues we've had for years.
    • Like x 1
  15. L T Devoted Player

    I didn't realize that. The way the counters work on live seems very natural.
    Yes. I can verify that whip, boxing, and claws are no longer vulnerable to block. But the channels are still vulnerable to interrupt, which is kind of annoying.

    One definite good thing is that, with power mastery, hard light can flow like hard light again. I could do lots of melee and range rotations and not run out of power unless I started clipping combos with powers.
  16. Swiftduck Loyal Player

    Not vulnerable to block? Damn. Looks like HL just got even more op in pvp
  17. Surtur Well-Known Player

    When were the animations for Grasping Hand & Snap Trap removed? I missed it.
  18. spord Developer

    Grasping Hand's visual effects aren't drawing as an unintended side effect of pulls no longer stomping out other crowd control effects. I'll get that fixed. Snap Trap's construct is broken immediately if the target is immune to crowd control.
  19. Realsaiyin Active Player

    Spord, could you please fix the animation for Light blast too? Since game update 57 the beam coming out of the ring is bigger than the size of the ring, i don't know how to explain it better but use Light blast and you will see what I mean.
    • Like x 1
  20. Celestial Thor Well-Known Player

    I would like that too, but for the mean time I just turn down the fade.
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