Stats Revamp 1.7 - Celestial

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by spord, Jun 9, 2017.

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  1. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    With all due respect, CC has a place in talking about the revamp, since it's not about raids only. It's about actually playing all content. It also has a place in the discussion because it's inherently connected to total damage out. Any kind of CC reduces dps. But I respect your point of view and I'm sure the devs will take both into account.

    P.S. I also miss RcW's animation. It made me actually feel kind of like a god that they would kneel before me.
  2. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    I totally agree that the game would be a lot more entertaining if they didn't factor in CC to power costs and damage. It was so much fun using powers with it (like impact and ram) just because of the animation and gameplay factor. But I guess they want us to focus just on pure damage value now, instead of those fun things. When faced with a CC ability now, you can't think "this ability's CC is a lot of fun to mess around with". You have to think "is this CC worth the dps loss, or can I live without it?" I wish it wasn't that way.
  3. McShotzz Well-Known Player

    The description of curse says it will heal you over time if the afflicted enemy dies, it is not. But Cleansed curse is working.
    • Like x 1
  4. Charmed Legacy Dedicated Player

    Ok what you need to take into consideration when talking about the CC's help make the combo aspect of Celestial achievable. Yea we take a damage loss for having the CC's (and no I don't think CC should dictate damage), but if we didn't have the CC's think how many times and how easy it would be to get interrupted during the combos. This would make Celestial DPS the biggest pain in the as* and damn near impossible to pull off combos in melee range if CC's weren't there. CS and AcB's CC in healer stance is beneficial for that one stray add that drops aggro from the tank in a raid, or for those moments in an alert when you (the healer) get the aggro. That CC gives you time to still get your HoT up and allows for someone or the tank (depending on the scenario) to take the aggro off the healer.
    I have to agree with Fatal, don't bring CC into this thread. It shouldn't factor in on damage, but it does have quite a few benefits to having it. I like my CC just the way it is too. Too many useful CC's and other abilities are being removed as is in the powersets that have left me salty, lets not add to the list please and ty.
    • Like x 1
  5. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    Again, as I said to Fatal, it bugs me when people say "don't bring this into this thread." You can certainly give your feedback. The devs will listen to it. I will also give mine. CC, and self-heals, and shields and everything else related to the power, all affect how this revamp works. Don't get mad at me for mentioning CC, I'm not the one who decided that those kind of abilities would affect power cost and damage. That was the devs. And if you would read my post carefully, you would see that I also stated that I'm comfortable with the way CC works in the case of celestial. The only ability I said doesn't make much sense is Consume Soul's single target pull. As a healer, or dps, what is the point of having a pull for one add?
  6. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    People say "don't bring this or that" into the thread because they care about their favorite power and don't want to see it ruined. CC actually benefits celestial quite a bit in duos, being able to pull adds, or toss them around, stun them, etc, helps keep adds off of us so we can use our combos. Take it away we lost our only form of protection from being CC'd out of our already long combos. That's why I'm saying just leave it as it is.
    I'll be pissed if all our CC is removed and I'm constantly juggled out of combos because there's nothing to keep the adds at bay.

    As for your single target pull, every healer power has one. Sorc = soul syphon, electric = attract, nature = vine lash or whip (forgot exact name), celestials is consume soul. If they remove cele, they might as well remove all the other healer power pulls too, then that would destroy what makes that ability unique in its own aspect.

    I'm trying to encourage the devs to give up on this CC nonsense for the DPS formula, hence why I said leave it as it is, I don't want to give them anymore ideas...
    • Like x 3
  7. Charmed Legacy Dedicated Player


    Look Fatal and I both get really touchy over Celestial. The CC needs to stay on Consume Soul. The pull/CC is effective for dps and pvp and doesn't need to be tampered with. Enough powers are getting stripped of their CC's, as I said before lets not add to the list.
    • Like x 2
  8. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    Also worth noting CS pulls and stuns as well, the stun is what makes it useful.
    • Like x 2
  9. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    Actually, not just healers. Every powerset has a single target pull. It's reminiscent of the time when they wanted all the powers to be able to tank, troll, heal, whatever. Still, if it's part of the dev's vision, that's fine with me.

    Actually regarding the whole CC thing, I had an idea, but I don't know if it's technically feasible. I love CC effects, as I said earlier, as much as you do. I think they add flavor and fun to the game, and even go beyond just a simple practical aspect to help us dps better. But others are crying that they need to squeeze as much dps as possible for raiding (in the case of Light's chainsaw, Light Blast, Ram, Impact, etc.).

    So the idea is this. What if the devs created a third Role tab. We could switch between DPS, Support and Expert tabs. In the Expert tab, all abilities would have their CC completely removed. That way raiders would get what they want, and we can just DPS alerts, etc. with all our CC intact. Just an idea.
  10. Mighty Committed Player


    Crying?

    Fan 300 power cost ability = 21,000 damage
    Ram 200 power cost ability = 21,000 damage

    The difference? Fan CCs. In troll stance. So light has zero ranged AOE 300 burst that does what other 300 bursts do, because they either add a PI or they do a CC. Or both. Additionally, many of the moves are at nerfed DPS because it's a controller powerset and basically everything does CC, ergo basically everything has a damage reduction. Finally, light is significantly underperforming all non-combo powers' max DPS potential. So excuse me for working within the system to get it brought in line.

    Crying. Jesus, dude ...
    • Like x 2
  11. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    That's my issue, we shouldn't need this cause CC shouldn't be a factor. HL is more clip heavy so I can see why they'd ask for that. Celestial is slow, it's like a tank, slow but powerful, while HL is the chopper gunner. So the CC for us is a form of protection (as I already mentioned). Hence why you see the different view points in the threads.

    As for your idea, what role would it be? Cause you know support players would have a cow if it was DPS exclusive, there's enough focus on dps as it is.
    • Like x 1
  12. Charmed Legacy Dedicated Player


    It really shouldn't be necessary to have a third role tbh. The CC's just shouldn't be factored in to the damage equation, and most definitely shouldn't be removed.
    • Like x 1
  13. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    HL is only clip heavy for people who play it that way. Those same people could play Celestial clip heavy if they wanted to. My point is, there are a few people in each thread who seem to feel that they're the only ones that have the right to an opinion. As if the devs can listen only to them and the way they want to play the power. Now HL has virtually no CC, have you tried using Light Blast in actual content?

    So, there will always be some people asking for removal of CC abilities to better raid damage, and others asking for it to be kept for non-raid content. I'm only expressing my opinion of each of the CC abilities. You can do the same.

    The best solution, though, I agree with you. CC shouldn't even factor into the damage/power cost equation. But it does, so here we are. Feel free to keep expressing your opinion of what you feel about that, and I'll do the same.
  14. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    You're in the wrong thread, bro. Fan has a pull in dps stance as well, hence the power cost. And as you see in the light thread, I said that it makes no sense to me now that light's abilities have no pushback. Ram has no CC whatsoever. The real problem is that the devs factored CC into the power/damage equation.

    The problem is you're focusing solely on damage for raid situations (and I applaud you for looking for that). But you need to understand the revamp doesn't only affect that. It affects the powers completely, people don't just play the game in raid situations. For solo content, duos and alerts, your wanting to squeeze out max dps is taking away my enjoyment of the power in other situations. I'm not arguing with you, because I don't blame you, I'm just saying that the devs put us into this very uncomfortable situation that kind of eliminates a lot of fun in the game by focusing it completely on 1's and 0's.
  15. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    Cause these are people that have played the power extensively in live (I've mained as cele for almost 4 years) and know what is what with it. When you play a power for that long you develope a personal bond with it and get emotional over every small change, as you can see.

    I don't want to change something that doesn't need to be changed. Instead of coming up with ideas to enforce the flawed trade off system we need to be against it. Hence why I'm not suggesting anything to do with CC, that guideline needs to go and I won't support any idea that's in support of it.
    • Like x 3
  16. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    I respect your point of view.
  17. McShotzz Well-Known Player

    Well with all this talk of CC effecting the damage potential of an ability, im wondering that along with the request for healing to be removed from life drain if the CC effect could be as well to boost dmg in line with other SC?
  18. spord Developer

    This is a known issue that is being worked on. It is meant to work in both roles Cleansed or not.
  19. FlreMint Active Player

    FireMint out of nowhere

    if you have 2 powers with the same damage output, 1 does CC, one does not CC, which would you chose?
    CC should be a factor in the powers damage.

    The inconsistency is that DPS stuns are normally only effective in solos and duos, not in alers or raids, so when talking alerts or raids: if you have 2 powers that exclusively do damage, the only difference being that one power has a higher damage output than the other, the one with lowest damage output becomes obsolete. We got a problem here.

    Now the solution

    If the player dominance is lower than required dominance to stun on a certain instance, when using a power with a CC effect, there is no CC but, instead, a bonus 'resistance; damage. The description could look like this:

    Admonish:
    Judicially deal enemies divine justice, damaging and knocking them down. Extra damage will be dealt to enemies that resist the knockdown effect.

    ~voila

    I know nothing about celestial, so I will rarely wander in this thread... just dropping my humble suggestion

    I think it would be great if this condition applied to every power with a CC effect in DCUO.

    As always, stay fresh my friends

    FireMint
    • Like x 1
  20. McShotzz Well-Known Player

    What if(probably hard to do) that move that loses Dmg but can CC deals extra damage if the CC cant be applied, making it viable in alerts and raids. By can't i mean dom restraints and such not like resistance when CCd too much
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