Stats Revamp 1.7 - Atomic

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by spord, Jun 9, 2017.

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  1. krytine Loyal Player

    Shouldnt the combo style do better? I mean doesnt this involve a higher risk and reward and shouldnt that be the thing that makes that power unique i mean electric should still be a compound power but its not rage celestial and hard light get interrupted all the time so shouldnt that be a higher reward then pft ?
  2. L T Loyal Player

    Combos are doing very well in my tests, but not as good as nature. There's no need to bring them down at this point.

    The hybrid play is lacking:
    • a high power cost, high damage ranged ability
    • DOT abilities

    The Radiation aspect of Atomic seems ready-made for DOTs. Electron Flare is a good ability-- but it's melee only. Could Radiation Shower be made into a DOT? Ionizing Eruption? Could a DOT be added? Could there be some power interaction that turns a single-target effect into a DOT? Hybrid play was workable when I tested, but it lacks both the big bursts and parallel background damage of other power sets.
    • Like x 1
  3. CrappyHeals Devoted Player

    Atomic combos for 30 second parses are putting up 40k plus easy nature is def not on that level. People need to run 30 second parses unless they are using the log analyzer to average it out cause 10 second parses aren't to stable and don't show correct data all the time cause of damage spikes and other things. For instance with one loadout for nature i was running 10 second parses and getting 34-35kish but when i moved to 30 seconds it was more like 30-32.

    I really wish there was a standard so everyone was on the same page for testing. Also testing without 2 trolls will get you incorrect data to. So unless you had 2 trolls and used 30 second parses i would do your testing over. Not being mean just saying when tossing out numbers we should be doing this with the most accurate conditions as possible.

    I'm also not asking for a nerf to combos either just pointing some things out.
    • Like x 4
  4. L T Loyal Player

    That's a good point. I gave it a like.You definitely need to look at sustained DPS and not short bursts; and there's a lot of value in everyone testing the same way.

    That having been said, I strongly disagree with some of it.

    10 second parses can be fine, as long as you minimize crits, and take into account power consumption. "I can do 1 10 second parse at 46k" is not the same as I can do "10 second parses at 46k forever and not run out of power".

    Running with no troll might skew things, but running with 2 troll-bots can skew things in an entirely different way. Power is a thing now; endless power through AM is gone. There will be underpowered trolls, incompetent trolls, good trolls, and everything in-bewteen. It seems to me that running with essentially limitless power is an interesting data-point, but not the end-all as to how a power can perform.
    • Like x 3
  5. L T Loyal Player

    Don't stay away. Please! More testers hammering on things and reporting problems will make for an improved final product.
    Respectfully, there's never been a revamp like this. This is power balancing combined with re-introducing weapon mastery combined with undoing CR-differential. All of those previous changes spent like a week on test and then got thrown onto the live server. This is nearly a year of testing and 8 major revisions so far.

    That having been said, you have a point. The problems I saw with prior testing:
    • Too much time in front of sparring targets ignored the fact that in content your rotation tends to get interrupted.
    • Throwing away low 10-second parses ignored the fact that it's more challenging to sustain damage with some power sets.
    • Unlimited power in front of sparring targets ignored the fact that you could actually lose power return from some AMs
    • Only looking at peak sustained damage ignored the fact that some power sets took forever to hit their peak.
    Did I miss any?
    • Like x 1
  6. CrappyHeals Devoted Player

    Things need to be tested at the highest end possible so when it hits live great players don't crush everyone cause things that weren't tested to the max weren't properly balanced. And as for power with 2 good trolls people will be fine and just cause everyone might not run with the best trolls doesn't mean things shouldn't be tested to the max and properly balanced.

    Also for 10 second parses sure you can use them but to be accurate you would need 30 of them in a row non stop then you would have to average them out to get correct data and they would all have to be flawless parses no mess ups.
    • Like x 1
  7. CrappyHeals Devoted Player

    This last update to combos has really took a dump on some combo powers like light and atomic, more light but atomic to. I honestly think we should not be using this formula for combos and should roll it back to the prior version. Combos all can't be balanced under the same rules cause they all don't work the same. Things were just fine before this change, maybe somethings needed slight damage adjustments but thats it. I know you guys are trying stuff and thats cool but this is just one of the things that you have to say "well that didn't go as planned"

    We really need to stop with this blanket formula stuff and balance things separately cause what works for one power or thing might not work for another as we keep seeing time and time again.
    • Like x 4
  8. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    Atomic got dumped on, it didn't need to be nerfed, the damage just needed to be spread out more so the final input is worth using. Now atomic is sadly bottom of the barrel in combo land. Hybrid isn't much better either.
    • Like x 6
  9. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    One question regarding atomic damage, why is there no 200 cost melee power in the combo set? Did players request that or something? Ranged options (for combos) are 100 (nuclear burst), 100 (beta surge), and 200 for (neutron bomb). Melee options are only atom splitter and thermochemical explosion, both at 100 each. Would it be possible to make TE 200 cost and up the damage to match?
    • Like x 1
  10. Charmed Legacy Dedicated Player

    Those combos are for the tank side and need to be kept at a 100 power cost.
    • Like x 1
  11. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    So atomic dps combos are doomed to be 100 power cost then? I understand what you're saying about the tank side, and that makes sense. Do tanks need to use both melee combos, or just one? Otherwise, what do you suggest? Another different (e.g. new) melee combo that costs 200 so that it can do damage? Or should atomic combo dps just use neutron bomb all the time? Remember that it's ranged too so the damage will always be inferior to melee.
  12. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    I'm fine with them giving us new combos, but I don't want the power costs of an already power hungry tank to increase. Atomic combos need to be bumped up anyway, but not by increasing the costs.
    • Like x 4
  13. Maxwill Committed Player

    2 trollers?Is that what every group will have or should have?
    And you still do your parses with buffs like : nitro/flex, omega , t8 trinket,back up, orbital ,supply or supplies from other 2 trollers?
  14. Maxwill Committed Player

    Combos can be balanced if they work in the same way , for example if some combos take same amount of time to be activate and they wark in the same way then they should have same damage formula ( same power usage and damage out ) for example some combos from rage, atomic, light.
  15. Charmed Legacy Dedicated Player

    I think taking some of the absolutely useless powers in Atomic's tree and making them a melee combo with a 200 cost would be a good idea i.e. fracture would be s good one to make into a melee combo. I don't know if this would be hard to do or not is why I haven't really suggested it. If anything he could reduce the range on the ranged combos and buff up the damage. Something needs to be done for atomic dps without hurting the tank in the process. As Fatal said earlier its the bottom of the barrel in combo land.
    • Like x 1
  16. CrappyHeals Devoted Player

    Every raid group will have 2 trolls when this goes live. And i never did or will use trinkets buff colas or anything like that for testing just a straight up rotation with 2 trolls and five min of parses put into the log analyzer for correct data and averages. If someone is using buffs, trinkets and no trolls they are testing wrong and will def not get correct information.
    • Like x 4
  17. Maxwill Committed Player

    Saying every raid group will have 2 trollers when stats matter goes live means that you know the future?
    And I have a feeling that you used some buffs when you presented some numbers, for example the 42k with celestial .Best way to prove our numbers is to put videos showing our stats , current effects etc, not just give away numbers.
  18. Charmed Legacy Dedicated Player

    Really hoping you're going to add CC back to Atom Splitter in 1.8. Tanking suffers soooo much without it if you don't have a troll with perfectly timed CC's which has only happened to me once in all the many times I've tanked with Atomic on test. The problem I have encountered most is no CC's at all, and that leaves me praying my healer doesn't let me down with the 500 stuns I'm encountering while attempting to maintain combos and my aura. It has even been so bad a few times that I lost my aura which isn't something that typically happens to me. Outside of the power costs I think Atomic tank would be perfectly fine for survivability if the CC was just implemented back to Atom Splitter.

    I personally won't be playing Atomic tank anymore if it goes to live like this. I don't want to be dependent on the troll and the healer to hold my hand for every last little thing. Doesn't make me feel like much of a tank when I can't even go to the next group of adds with out my healer being with me. This makes me sad too as it's my favorite tank power in the game. :(
    • Like x 2
  19. CrappyHeals Devoted Player

    Obviously you haven't tested much cause if you did you would know raids require 2 trolls cause of high power costs and not just for dps.

    Also about celest sure i had a 40 plus average for it but that was way back when ScH and HcS were not balanced correctly, recently its no where near that. You must be looking at outdated data from previous builds.

    And i can assure you i don't use buff colas and stuff like that i just know what i'm doing and i have folders upon folders of data sheets on everything i test to back my findings up.
    • Like x 4
  20. Maxwill Committed Player

    1st of all I did test and i know raids can be done with 1 troller and with 3 trollers for very power hungry dpses.
    2nd about celestial is when it wasn't fixed so it wasnt outdated date, check my youtube.
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