Stats Revamp 1.5: Quantum, Earth, and Celestial

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by Avair, Mar 31, 2017.

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  1. Crimson Mayhem Loyal Player

    I think we're talking about the same things here. All I'm saying is that with the revamp, unlike the AM meta, there won't be just a single possible build or even a single optimal build because the revamp meta is by definition much more open. By FOTM I mean popular builds that are easy to copy and play, the ones that will always exist because many people just don't care about exploring and crunching numbers. With the AM meta it's difficult or impossible to make a build that's different from the FOTM, but with the revamp we can deviate and still be viable or even better than the FOTM.
    Of course it's unrealistic to expect just any build to perform, there will still be people sucking with Full Auto spam and that's a necessity.
  2. Soul Dedicated Player

    Oh no, then we disagree.. I definitely claim that after this revamp there will only be one optimal build for each powerset.
    Viable and Optimal are not the same - there may be multiple options to play with and get content done, but only 1 build will be Optimal.

    It's only a matter of time until the min-maxing is done and we find whether Powerset X goes with PFtT build X or Hybrid build X for optimal performance.

    If what you're saying is that your expectations out of this is having more than just one OPTIMAL build for every powerset.. I think you'll be disappointed.
    • Like x 1
  3. Jacob Dragonhunter Steadfast Player

    There's always gonna be someone who's gonna try to shove one "Perfect" Playstyle down our throat, that's a given knowing how the playerbase is.


    But the ultimate point of the Revamp is to make sure that we aren't at a big disavantage if we prefer to use something outside of said optimal build.
  4. Soul Dedicated Player

    Well that's a reasonable goal.
    Having more viable options to play with and finish content the way you want to - that I understand.

    But if you also expect multiple ways to "Be on top".. I think that'll be a disappointment.
  5. Jacob Dragonhunter Steadfast Player

    I don't expect to be on top, not sure on everyone else's perspective.


    If the Gap is very small from being on top with optimal vs being not optimal I'm fine with that.


    Now if the Gap becomes huge like Quantum to Gadgets, or Electric to Any other powerset on Live then It's gonna become an issue.
  6. Soul Dedicated Player

    I don't think anyone can tell you how big the gap will be yet.
    I was just worried people think there will be no gap at all.. That's setting up the Devs to fail.
  7. Jacob Dragonhunter Steadfast Player

    I really wouldn't be too worried about the whole"People think there will be no gap at all" Honestly, if someone's thinking the Stats-revamp is gonna turn out like that then they aren't being realistic.

    Veterans will expect there to be a gap undoubtly, that's just the nature of this game and other MMO's. The Gap as much as some people hate it, it's the sole reason why we have variety in this game.

    As Stated before-hand: The only logical way for powers & playstyles to have no gaps at all is if they are 100% the same. And I think most would agree with having more variety at the cost of a gap, versus having no gaps but at the cost of variety.



    I know what I said is kind of confusing, but I can't really explain it in any other way.
    • Like x 1
  8. Crimson Mayhem Loyal Player

    Well as I said, not being restricted to AM opens it up for niche specialization. If nothing else, then for single vs multi target alone. AMs are aoe by design so it's not really possible to specialize for single target. Without AMs, well at the very least there will be two different min-maxed builds for each powerset, one for single and one for multi target. That's assuming many people will actually care for a single target build, I think the majority will be fine with having a multipurpose aoe build that works decently for anything.
    Again, I'm expecting options for optimized builds for niche situations and versatile min-maxed FOTM builds for standard aoe situations. General purpose builds that will be popular won't be optimized for different situations but just work well in most content. Copy-paste FOTM builds aren't usually popular because they do the most damage, or every wannabe Gadgets DPS would run around with Stealth and tryhard bot clipping. They're popular because they are efficient from an effort vs performance perspective.

    But I guess we can theorize about that for hours and we won't come to a conclusion anyway before this goes live :D
    • Like x 2
  9. supalova20 Well-Known Player

    AVAIR..? for Weapon combos specifically SOLAR FLAME and SCISSOR KICK....since SCISSOR KICK is a longer combo than SOLAR FLARE is SK better for power regen? an which hits harder? or can anybody please answer these 2 questions? need that knowledge
  10. stärnbock Devoted Player

    QUESTION:
    why are there finishers (-35%) benefitting from PI's and why are there some wich do not at all?
    if a finisher gets stronger with PI, then it should be harder than those wihout PI... don't you think?
    however: if you realy want to bring powers in line, then this is a balance issue and should be looked at...
    i guess! further: maybe all finishers should get to benefit from PI, but with ALL PI's available for the power...
  11. stärnbock Devoted Player

    right, thats what i think too. there might be pfft, hybrid, weapon loadouts, each one adjustable for single/multiple targets...

    anyways: is it that splitting goes like:
    1 target: 1x100%
    2 targets: 2x100%
    3 targets: 1x100%, 2x50%

    or am i completely wrong? if it splitts like this, single target would allways be on the downside, if its not a finisher.
    but the finisher would only make up for it if under 35%. otherwhise its garbage. maybe someone can explain?
  12. Crimson Mayhem Loyal Player

    That's not how splitting works usually. It works like this for Sticky Bomb and that one Munitions power but usually, splitting works like this:

    1 target: 100
    2 targets: 2x100=200
    3 targets: 3x67=200
    4 targets: 4x50=200

    Single target abilities have a bonus multiplier though so in single target situations a single target power will do more damage than a multi target power with the same properties.

    That's why multi target powers in the revamp are generally inferior in single target situations and single target powers are generally inferior in multi target situations.
    • Like x 2
  13. stärnbock Devoted Player

    thank you for explaining me ^^
    though i have no idea how these "bonus multiplier" for single targets work...
    for me, i think it would be more fair like this:

    1 target: 200
    2 targets: 2x100=200
    3 targets: 3x67=200
    4 targets: 4x50=200

    would it not be more easy to balance like this and whithout bonus multi?
  14. Crimson Mayhem Loyal Player

    The bonus multiplier is purely internal, it just means that single target powers have higher base damage than multi target powers. If splitting worked like you're suggesting then there would be no point in single vs multi target builds because effectively there wouldn't be multi target damage anymore. Having the single vs multi decision makes it more interesting to make character builds and adapt to different situations instead of having just one loadout that works equally well in all content.
    You're right though, that would be easier to balance. In this case it's not necessarily a good thing though.
    • Like x 1
  15. stärnbock Devoted Player

    i see... in my oppinion, the splitting is hard to figure! maybe this makes sense... i dont know, at least not for me.
    i guess we will need to change loadouts before/after every bossfight, or have multiple armories for it ^^
  16. stärnbock Devoted Player

    when thinking on SC generator:
    earth has one that is clippable yet only works at close range. quantum stuns hard all over the mapp. celest doesnt apply any PI, mental is single target only... some advantages, some disatvantages. however: there is only one per power. either choose it and try to include it in your loadout (some times you have to rethink your whole playstyle to include it) or ignore it and try to make up for it...

    QUESTION:
    would a second generator for every power be an improovement?
  17. stärnbock Devoted Player

    group buffs: in single player and duos, there are blue bubbles refilling power
    in alerts, you get buffs for every role thats missing.
    in raids, thats where everything is how it should be like everywhere else: no bubbles, no buffs.

    i think if this would be consistend throughout the game, it would be better because otherwise is confusing...
  18. Crimson Mayhem Loyal Player

    That's what I've been doing for years! It's not all that effective in the AM meta though since most of my damage comes from EMP anyway and whatever 123 powers I use is basically irrelevant.

    I would actually like that, options are always good. HOWEVER I wouldn't want any other powers to be transformed into SC generators. I'd rather have more SC generators as new powers/powers that got removed at some point. Considering that it would allow us to use two SC generators on one loadout, maybe that wouldn't be a good idea though, not sure.
    • Like x 1
  19. stärnbock Devoted Player

    eh... wait a second: i got a QUESTION:
    pfft needs to spec A LOT into power, if not only low power spamming.

    HOW is this even possible, if you get into stat clamped events???
  20. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    PFtT is ALOT easier to pull off at lower cr then it is at higher cr, their power cost scaling system needs to get looked at.
    • Like x 3
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