Stats Revamp 1.5: Earth

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by Shin-O-B, Mar 31, 2017.

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  1. Shin-O-B Developer

    Expect a medium cost Jackhammer in the upcoming build, along with a slightly reduced cost Upheaval. I'm interested in seeing how it feels; especially in high pressure and high power consumption situations.

    Pets could use some love (across multiple Superpowers) in general. It's difficult to prioritize tuning them over bug fixes and required tasks, but will are certainly not done with them. Please continue to provide feedback on them though! Pets will have their day :)
    • Like x 1
  2. Shin-O-B Developer

    Thank you very much for posting your footage! They were more helpful and informative than you know. It was really cool to see you trying out different tools while tanking!

  3. MAXILIANO Loyal Player

    After a brief test with the tank, I really felt a difference now that the npcs damage was adjusted.
    I really feel stronger.
    However I have encountered a problem very much like what I have encountered with the atomic.
    The crowd control.
    It's so easy to take care of a boss, but it's really hard to take care of the crowd! Even more now that I'm not blocking!
    They keep throwing me around, and it gets really complicated.
    I think it would be great if Fortify Golem in tank mode could be used when we are stunned or being attacked. This would help a little. I noticed doing Nexos alone.
    Epicenter: It would be interesting if Epicenter could overturn adds when we use it. This would help a lot!
    Allowing us to take a breather to at least recharge our power or use some other power. Or just stay alive!

    Now a request:
    Would it be possible when we invoked Brink to come back with the "poeria" that surrounded us? This image full of "waves" besides ugly, disrupts the vision of the character, and represents nothing in relation to the Earth! The other was much more beautiful and had more representation.
    Thank you.
  4. Mepps Sr. Community Manager

    The following changes are moving onto test today:

    • Pebble Blast - now a single target Taunt
    • Stone - cost reduced to 200 from 300, is now a multi-target cone, and no longer Taunts
    • Rumblecrush - cost reduced to 100 from 300
    • Striking Stones - now applies Crushing P.I. instead of leveraging Crushing P.I.
    • Jackhammer - cost increased to [200, 100, 100~] from [100, 35, 35~]; now leverages Crushing P.I. instead of Daze P.I.
    • Upheaval - cost reduced to [100, 100, 100, 100] from [100, 135, 165, 200]
    • Soothing Sands - Updated particle effects
    • Tectonic Break - now leverages Daze P.I. instead of applying Daze P.I.

    • Many of you noted concerns with pets generally, and we will review based on this feedback.
    • Some of you commented on needing to rely too much on Gemstone Shield. We have reviewed the comments, but do not plan changes here. Shields are good and are a key part of tank gameplay.
  5. JohnnyDWellens Level 30

    The changes to Jackhammer and Upheaval are good. Also looking forward to what you guys come up with for pets.

    However, I must say that it is troubling that you guys hear our feedback about relying on Gemstone Shield too much and you plan on not doing anything. Relying on it, by the way, is a total and complete change from live where Gemstone Shield is an "Oh sh%t!" move to most and not an absolute staple of a loadout. Yes shields are good, but Earth's mechanic isn't shields and we shouldn't be forced to rely on the only shield Earth has. If we're telling you that, as Earth Tanks who tank the raids on live consistently, this is a huge change that we're not comfortable with I would think you guys would take that to heart and not dismiss it.

    And if shields were a key part of tanking then every tank power would be relying on a shield. But Rage and Atomic aren't (Ice excluded because that's the mechanic of the power). Shields should be an option, not mandatory. If current testers can survive with Atomic and Rage without needing to take their respective shields then Earth should too. Earth's unique mechanic isn't shielding and the emphasis on the tanking needs to be more focused on the absorption with Aftershock and Brick.

    Lastly, are you guys not going to respond to our requests about adding in a different Earth Tanking supercharge? Are you not going to make any changes to Entomb and adjust it to be a better tanking supercharge option? If you changed it to any of the options we've suggested then Earth tanks have more options for their loadouts and you'll do away with a supercharge that no one runs with. (No one is an exaggeration, but seriously, this move is useless in the powerset.)
    • Like x 4
  6. Shin-O-B Developer

    The difference between Earth tanking versus Rage and Atomic is that the latter two have a lot more healing at their disposal. Rage and Atomic also have more required abilities for their tanking loadout compared to Earth. That said, what do you expect to use on your loadout while tanking?

    We buffed the strength and full duration of Gemstone Shield with the expectation that it would be used. If a backup is needed, Hard Light Shield is there for you.

    We have no immediate plans to add a new Supercharge. Creating new abilities is more time intensive than tuning existing ones, and we still have two other powers to update. If you want my personal opinion on the Supercharge ideas, I think the idea of a Mega Golem (or something like it) is really cool!! :cool:

    While Entomb probably isn't the best Supercharge for tanking, I would be interested in hearing opinions about it from a Damage Role perspective.
    • Like x 3
  7. JohnnyDWellens Level 30

    My personal opinion is that if you guys are going to take the time to revamp the powers, go all out and make them the best they can be. And if you work out a new supercharge for Tanks it creates another option so maybe people who don't want to use Gemstone Shield can run a loadout where they work up a supercharge and pop Mega Golem when ready. See what I'm saying? 'Eh? Get it? Options =D

    I love Gemstone Shield and always run with it. However I do not use it nearly as much as I have to now on test. It's always been my backup for when someone goes down and I want to pick them up, or a healer drops and I want the extra mitigation. What do I do now in these circumstances if blocking doesn't work and I'm already relying on Gemstone Shield to keep up even with a healer? What do I do for my "Oh sh$t!" moments? Why, pop out Mega Golem and let him mitigate my damage for me while the healer gets up! Or use Envelop. What I'm saying is that by making Gemstone Shield a staple of a loadout, you've made it almost mandatory. Rage and Atomic have more required abilities because of their mechanics and that makes sense. But what makes Earth so interesting has always been that it's had options. No Earth tank had to run exactly the same loadout as every other one. Gemstone Shield wasn't required. The only required abilities were that if you ran Brick you needed Fortify Golem to keep him going.

    What's my ideal loadout? I don't really have one...again Earth is awesome precisely because of its options. Currently on live I have 3 armories for tanking and I change them out depending on what I'm running or what I feel like doing. Sometimes I jackhammer for juggles and to free up a power slot not taken by Fortify Golem (usually I put in a 2nd breakout or a 2nd pull) and sometimes I use Brick. Sometimes I use Earthen Grip/Lasso/Low Pressure and sometimes I use Epicenter. Sometimes I use both! But if you were to ask what my go to loadout's this one:

    Gemstone Shield
    Soothing Sands
    Totem (It really should have a juggle/knockdown on loop in tank role. Ever 6 - 10 seconds)
    Lasso/Low Pressure/Epicenter/Earthen Grip
    Fortify Golem
    Brick James

    I know I keep repeating myself and I'm sorry I'm dragging this on. I just want to reiterate again that if you guys are going to invest all this time into getting a stat/power revamp right, then do it right this first time so you don't have to go back. Drop Entomb and put in the Mega Golem (or if that's too much I'd settle for summoning 2 - 3 large totem like objects that sprout up around you and suck up incoming damage by a percentage as long as it is active). Don't make Gemstone Shield an absolute must, it should be optional if we want to take it and we shouldn't struggle because we don't. Which means we need ulterior options to keep us alive such as maybe making Totem itself a form of damage mitigation. Maybe as long as it's active we have another 5% - 10% damage mitigation, try it out and see if people are more comfortable. I think for all Tank powers besides Ice, shields should be optional and not necessary.

    Thanks to you if you read all this. I know you guys are working hard to bring everything in balance, support role and DPS. I commend you guys for the undertaking. The game needs an power overhaul (in my opinion). And while I personally have a few issues with some of the changes (Seriously, Electricity NEEDS an option to go fully DoT based if it wants to) I think you guys are doing well overall. And thanks for taking the time to answer my questions and hear out my responses.
    • Like x 2
  8. HoiiowDreamz Dedicated Player

    Just started testing earth, 2 initial notes:
    1. jackhammer is now slightly better than upheaval. I was getting 28-29k with jackhammer alone, 25-27k with upheaval so it's better than before.
    2. the earthquake supercharge needs to have an updated description saying that the aftershocks cost "x" amount of extra supercharge. I first I thought it was bugged because it didn't perform the aftershocks but then I decided to test it at full supercharge and it went through and drained like 90-95% I think. Did like 380k damage but still. I'd rather know whether or not I can do the aftershocks before I hit it so I can avoid doing an unintended melee attack afterward.
  9. JohnnyDWellens Level 30

    Also, Earth should be able to survive on it's own shouldn't it? Without need to reach into iconics?
  10. Karasawa Loyal Player

    Sounds like non-pet Earth tanking is a bit like Ice, but with more defense and fewer shields. Is that a fair characterization?
  11. hotsizz1e03 Committed Player

    OUT WITH ENTOMB in with MEGA GOLEM FTW!!!! I just Hope he becomes MEGA and aggros HEAVILY!! :)
    • Like x 1
  12. Cyro Committed Player


    Mega golem
    • Like x 1
  13. Rokyn Dedicated Player

    Some quick feedback but I don't like having Jackhammer benefiting from Crushing. It doesn't flow well in the rotation and I can't use Unstoppable with it. Unstoppable is useless for Upheaval since Upheaval is ranged. I would work better if Upheaval was Crushing (since more crushing powers are ranged) and if Jackhammer went back to Dazing since theres more melee-midrange Dazing powers. Unstoppable works well in tandem with Jackhammer. I also don't like that I need to set up two different PI's for the Earth combos. That's annoying at least to me personally.

    Also having Debris Field benefit from PI instead of just inflicting, is extremely weird in the timing. I have to pop a burst PI applicator move and then do Debris Field. That's power hungry and a unneeded rotation and I have to keep up with the timing of the PI instead of depending on Debris Field's cooldown.
    • Like x 5
  14. DarkAya Committed Player

    I would like to turn into giant Brick or Crystal and smash! Something like Ice Elemental would be great.
    I think current Earth's supercharges are not so great, is the 'Envelope' as useful as Fire's 'Eternal flame' for 'oh crap' situations?
  15. Aggro Well-Known Player

    Let's talk supercharges, not making new ones although yes it will be cool, but fixing the old ones.

    I'm talking in general all powers. Munitions on live yes overpowered but useful to always have in the loadout. I'm not saying all supercharges have to 1 shot a group of adds but if I'm going to use 100% super meter I'm expecting that of a 1 shot or close to 1.
    • Earthquake:4 stomps slow animation use of all super meter. I want a 1 shot on last stomp.
    • Meteor Shower: 50% give use maybe close to half of the damage.
    • Entomb: incase 1 add if killed, explode multiple by x damage.
    [NOTE] What I'm saying is make the super worth it, to actually have, this if anything should be "Overpowered" or at least leaning on that side and no I don't mean just earth, ALL powers should be balanced on a overpower equal range. Just munitions? Makes me sick to my stomach.

    If this is a option for the devs to decide, adding health might need a increase remember 8 players, I just would like a supercharge to mean "supercharge" and not just something that will stay off my loadout forever becuase the build up takes too long and the reward is poop.
    • Like x 1
  16. Aggro Well-Known Player

    I agree with the changes, but why change jackhammer to crush? I mean it doesn't really matter
    • Jackhammer Bug: 200 power cost change on first hit I felt the change both on power and damage.
      BUT, on the 100 power cost after the first hit I'm hitting either the same or less than the 35 power cost combo punches.
    • Upheaval: still stronger then jackhammer with lower cost and lower damage.
    Although upheaval isnt a bug i thought i would put it there for you guys to figure out jackhammers issue
  17. Rokyn Dedicated Player

    Envelop is your new OH SH*T! move on test server. It works great! Just like Ice Hibernation, it heals you up to full health, it aggros now, and it's an indestructible shield. On test server you rebuild SC really fast as a tank since you're constantly attacking. After playing with it a bit more on test, I changed my mentality a bit and I tried to see if from a different perspective.

    Gemstone shielding is now part of your tanking rotation similar to Density for Atomic, Ice Winter Ward, Rage Redirected Rage. It's super strong and helps against "stress damage". It gives the healers some room to heal you and the cool thing with Gemstone is that you can control the amount you want the shield to take, if it's heavy damage like in can let some damage pass through and let the shield last longer. And the cool thing with Defense is that it stacks with shields, absorption apparently doesn't do this so there you have it.
    • Like x 2
  18. HoiiowDreamz Dedicated Player

    Roughly the same for me. I ended up standing like a ever so slightly further in distance from midrange to be in range of unstoppable and sonic cry.

    I was doing:
    debris field - dot, benefits pi
    totem - dot
    sonic cry - burst power, apply pi
    tremor - burst power, benefits from pi
    unstoppable - burst power, apply pi

    alternating hb fist slam for melee between sonic and tremor and I was netting like 40k consistently.

    For range:
    debris field
    sonic cry

    upheaval 4x clip with sonic cry and or unstoppable rifle tap repeat

    if i was gonna be technical and float the midrange borderline of like 1.5 squares away from the 3 sparring targets, i could have unstoppable and sonic cry for dazed pi. If I had to go pure range, I'd prob use gag glove and or tec instead of sonic cry to alternate with.

    For melee without upheaval or jackhammer, I was getting 40k using a rotation similar to my ice. For ranged with upheaval I was netting 37-38k. Small nerf, but the main thing was that neither used jackhammer still. I couldn't find a rotation with jackhammer that would put up more than 35-37k, which makes it not worth it still. Whenever I checked it, Jackhammer alone is doing more than upheaval, however, jackhammer was still like 27-28 compared to 25-26 from upheaval, but pre-nerf upheaval was like 30. And I'm not sure if the cooldown of jackhammer that should be lowered to so I can literally replace it with upheaval to run the same rotations but slightly more damage or if we should increase it another notch, i do not know. I know jackhammer affects tanking, so whatever trade off you feel is better is fine with me considering I'm fine just using upheaval. I want to use jackhammer because it's fun, but if I can't as a dps, then it's not a make or break I don't feel like earth dps'ing anymore type of deal.
  19. 120ME New Player

    Good afternoon devs, just wanted to say I have Bennett playing this game since it came out on hard disk, and I feel like you all could go with a different approach to earth super charge, and I'm going to give you a prime example. For example when you are fighting John Constantine in ruin cathedral where John summons a big brick golem that tanks and protects and taunts his enemy, so I feel like this is already implemented in the game, all you have to do is add it in. Here's a video I'm going to post for yall loyal fans of dc who forgot about this.

  20. Rokyn Dedicated Player

    Updated Feedback 3.0

    Tanking Feedback
    • The changes to Jackhammer I didn't notice too much of a difference for Earth. Earth stats wise, is the least power hungry tank of all. If anything my damage went up which is great.
    • After feedback noted, using the shields and crowd control in my rotation and depending on Envelop as my OH SH*t! move.....I think I'm starting to understand the idea the developers are trying to implement. I'm definitely getting a hang of it all.
    • I didn't get a chance to properly test Pebble Blast with another tank but if anyone has, I just want to confirm the Single Taunt is working as intended.
    • Localized Tremor requires PI to crowd control, still? Let's change this.
    • Overall, it feels smooth and the tanking requires careful use of your tools to survive. Crowd control, shielding rotation, countering enemies, and positioning.
    Damage Feedback
    • It seems like I'm doing good damage but I'm not really sure. In the video below I was in competition with a Celestial DPS the whole run till I flipped to Tank on last boss. I'm not doing horrible damage that's for sure. I was using PftT with Earth Combos.
    • I'm not sure if it was the controller's fault or if it was mine, but I did run out of power...eventually with my Jackhammer rotation. It wasn't instantly but over time I would fall in power. Soders and supply drops did help through during these moments. I used Jackhammer (main attack), Rumble Crush (cheap PI applicator), Debris Field (DoT), Totem (DoT), SC, and Sandblast (Finisher). I would switch out Debris Field for Shards in the duos since the DoTs don't completely register on the low HP targets. Might and Power specced and balanced equally, reserve tank, and replinshing adapter for the weapon mod.
    • Upheaval rotation is very power friendly. Upheaval, Stone, Debris, Totem, SC, Sandblast
    • Earth combos and Pet is virtually impossible since it's very power hungry. At least with Jackhammer it is. I haven't tested with Upheaval only. And I haven't tried three trolls.
    • A weapon-pet based build is actually very strong. I'm not sure if it's because weapons were buffed for testing but it holds it's own against Earth PftT. I was fully specced precision with core strength mod. I used Fortify, Reinforce, Unstoppable, Sandblast, Neo-Venom SC, Crystal.
    • There isn't many single target options for Earth, I don't know what would be changed for this. Aside from Pebble Blast, Sandblast, and Entomb.
    • I'm conflicted on the multiple PI thing for Earth. Not many powers use Crushing. Dazing on the other hand is more popular. I think removing Crushing would open more options to Earth....possibly. I don't know.
    Supercharge Feedback
    • Seems like Entomb requires the add to be crowd controlled (encased) in order to do the AoE damage. If performed on a boss, it's just doing single target damage. Hopefully intended. Without the AoE damage, I'm not sure if it's still as strong to be a 50% supercharge.
    • Earthquake and Meteor Shower seem to be fine to me. I don't notice a difference. If anything, Earthquake should be stronger since it's melee and Meteor is ranged.
    Video Feedback

    Base Multiplier Chart for damage data coming later tonight! With the chart, you can see the raw damage of each ability :D
    • Like x 5
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