Stats Revamp 1.4 - Rage Feedback

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by Moja, Feb 24, 2017.

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  1. Moja Developer

    Read Avair's stats revamp 1.4 post here first!

    General Patch Notes – Rage
    • All combos now use Might to determine damage. Combos to perform “Precision versions” of abilities have been removed to conform with new balance standards. We recognize that this can affect players' modding choices, and have a plan to make the transition as painless as possible. For more information, see Avair's post.
    • Abilities that leech health have been standardized: DPS Role = 25% leech and higher damage. Tank Role = 100% leech and lower damage.
    • Relentless Anger – Since the core functionality of this ability was shared by other Rage abilities, Relentless Anger has been reworked:
      • Relentless Anger: Cost 200. Cooldown 6s. Leap forward at your target enemy, dealing damage and knocking down enemies in an area while generating Supercharge. Applies Plasma Burn.
    • Frenzy – Updated animation times and visuals. This should generally increase the speed of this ability and make it feel less clunky.
    • Dreadful Blast – Second combo piece is now available while in Tank role.
    • Outrage – Added a Tap Melee combo piece that repeats the base ability. Both this ability and the base ability can transition into the Hold Melee combo.
    • Violence – Now applies Plasma Burn.
    • A number of other small adjustments have been made to costs, cooldowns, cc, power interactions, etc. to adjust abilities for the new balance standards of the Stats Revamp.
    Rage Tanking Updates
    Rage has received a number of adjustments to Tanking in order to bring it into balance with other Tank powers while preserving its unique flavor and reinforcing the core theme of aggression:
    • Tank Passive now grants 50% Defense while not blocking, as well as Scar Tissue.
    • Scar Tissue now grants a scaling Dominance-to-Health bonus, starting at 50% and scaling up to 130%, based on your Combo Meter (which now triggers off hits from powers and weapon attacks). This was to fix the infinite health glitch from Live while giving Rage more consistency in its max health and encouraging Rage Tanks to attack to build up their survivability, rather than blocking. As a reminder, Tank Dominance is much higher in the Stats Revamp than on Live, so this represents an increase in the average health bonus granted by this passive.
    • Several abilities in Tank Role now grant Fervor, a buff which increases Defense by 55% while not blocking. When combined with the Tank Passive Defense buff, this yields the same mitigation as (fortified) blocking. This enables Rage Tanks to actively attack while this bonus is on without losing survivability from not blocking.
    • The “Heal back damage taken” mechanic from Severe Punishment and Vindictive is now a buff called Enrage. It will now only restore a portion of damage taken (currently 75% in Tank Role), rather than 100%. Since Rage’s base survivability has increased, this allows Rage Tanks to still benefit from having a Healer during Enrage, and allows for a better balance in content rather than the binary “immortal or dead” paradigm that exists on Live. The vulnerability period after Severe Punishment ends has also been increased to 4 seconds, creating a little more space for NPCs to put pressure on Rage Tanks without mandating 1-shot mechanics to compensate for Rage Tanks’ survivability.
    • A number of self healing and leech mechanics have been adjusted to scale with Dominance and Restoration at the same rate as Shields, making these more attractive options for Rage Tanks’ self healing.
    • In total, these changes should result in less drastic extremes in survivability between Rage Tanks with Enrage active or not. On average, Rage Tanks should be on par with Atomic and Ice Tanks on Test. Expect to be slightly less invincible while Enraged, and considerably more durable while not Enraged. These changes should also promote a play style of actively attacking while Enraged, rather than turtling behind block. After all, you’re a Rage Tank: be aggressive!
    Given the unique style of Tanking that Rage has, we’re looking forward to your feedback to make sure we’ve nailed the balance between Rage Tanks and other Tanks on the Test Server, while still preserving the feel and theme of Rage Tanking. Thanks!
    • Like x 2
  2. light FX 10000 Post Club

    U guys are making all tanks battle tanking and taking away what makes them different. All the uniqueness is gone. Imo the battle tanking is being done because too many people wanna pew pew all the time so now its dont bother blocking or do any of the things tanks do in MMOs. Its just pew pew away so dps people can play support by still just mashing buttons. Going to test this but after reading the changes i think all the skill has been removed from rage tanking by getting rid of the rage crash mechanic. Heading to test and will give more feedback later.
    • Like x 5
  3. Jafin 10000 Post Club


    Rage Crash is still there, it hasn't been removed.
    • Like x 6
  4. light FX 10000 Post Club

    From the way those notes read it doesnt function like it does now on live. Maybe poor choice of words on my part. Should of said it functions differently.
  5. SasquaT Dedicated Player

    1st what i notice is Plasma Retch dosnt make damage over time its just one tick .
  6. Arathian Level 30


    I'm not quite understanding how this takes "Skill" away from rage... currently all I do as rage is proc Severe Punishment and hold block, and HOPEFULLY I wont die, that doesn't seem very "skillful" nor fun. and there is nothing unique about that for sure.

    I am genuinely happy and excited for these changes! rage tanks get to be...enraged!
    • Like x 3
  7. Jacob Dragonhunter Loyal Player

    Oh dear... where do I start...


    What did you guys do to rage? You somehow took this powerset and made it worse...(Negative feedback incoming)

    • First off, what happened to our self healing? Our self healing mechanic(Aka) Rage-crash made it somewhat viable to melee, because it was our trade off for doing so. Now if you try it on test it's completely gone. I tried Rentless anger, and I tried Severe Punishment, neither work.
    • Extending the cooldown of Dreadful blast, bad idea. If you want to range DPS, with rage it's completely messed up. On live: Dreadful blast has a quick cooldown so you can continously use it if you need to back off and range. On test: You have no alternatives to dreadful blast, and the cooldown has been set to 2.5 seconds. So Range DPS is completely messed up.
    • Plasma retch: You can't jump cancel it, at least make it mobile.
    • We Rage players are handicapped now: We have no ranged options, Are forced to melee, have no healing, no-trade offs.
    • Channel hate: Why not make this a Secondary ranged DPS combo? We need something to rotate between dreadful blast so it won't become boring.
    • Galling eruption: If this thing costs you 300 power, it should at least have access to full range.
    • Relentless anger: I hate having to lunge at people, other powersets don't need to lunge towards enemies just to use a Super-charge generator. The healing back was taken away, in return we got a useless PI applicator.
    • Ferocity: Tanks don't need extra damage, just make this a self heal alongside ire:
    • Berserk: Why doesn't this thing leverage Plasma burn?
    • Outrage.. The 2.5 second cooldown on live was Hated.. Why did you guys extend it to 3 seconds? We wanted Outrages cooldown lowered, not increased.
    • We can still get interrupted... annoying and sad considering we gotta put ourselves at even more risk then we did before.
    TL;DR: Congrats. I thought rage was gonna be a better powerset come revamp, but no.. Just no.
    You guys handicapped rage completely. No self healing, Ranged DPS ruined with awkward cooldowns, cooldowns increased for no reason, Lack of ranged DPS moves.


    Sorry, but no; I'd rather take rage on live(As boring as it is) versus this watered down version.
    • Like x 7
  8. Jacob Dragonhunter Loyal Player

    You can't Jump cancel it anymore, it'll do damage overtime but if you jump-clip it you'll miss out on DPS.

    I asked this about Fear gas(which in a way was very similar to Plasma Retch) and they said They removed the benefit of jump clipping.
    • Like x 1
  9. light FX 10000 Post Club

    So u go into rage mode and then hold block and thats all? U dont cast a power to stop your rage crash? U just hope u dont die even tho u can use say evis chain and stop from crashing and most likely dying? If im reading what u wrote correctly then i dont think u know how to rage tank. Maybe im misunderstanding something here but im going off what u said. Like u do know u can stop the rage crash so u dont die? And u have to cast that rage crash cancel power at a certain time so u dont die. Like u can get knocked down and need to cast an immunity quick to pop up and then hit your crash cancel. That is where the skill is.
    • Like x 3
  10. SasquaT Dedicated Player

    Heh so thats gona be slow fight system which i dont like the most in mmo .
    Hit one key and w8 ok now you can hit 2nd key sounds like EverQuest II pfffft .
    [IMG]
  11. Lt Skymaster Dedicated Player

    I have to test these changes, but you guys are killing the tank role.
    Rage has had the mechanic for the longest time, and you're just dumbing down rage tanking.

    Saying things like "people not using the enrage" will have it more easy what is that supposed to mean? Why do you want to make the whole game easy for people that don't even care about learning something as elemental as the rage mechanic?

    Instead of fixing issues like a lot of bugs that rage has or problems that rage has like the fact that if he dies while in rage mechanic you can't use it again until the cool down is off. Sometimes the not being able to cancel the rage crash because being stunned even when you clearly used the power to cancel it. Among others, you again prefer to change things that were working well.


    If you say that the rage mechanic was invisible mode for rage tanks in live that's the worst lie you could ever tell yourself. No offence but with some of the recent changes I wonder if you play the game to a high level.


    However I do have to admit that the transition from Prec to Might combos is an asserted one.
    • Like x 4
  12. Arathian Level 30


    Yes, I am aware of the mechanics required for rage tanking, apologies on my end for over exaggerating. Yet I still believe that There is not much to the power currently on live, I made a longer extensive post on my personal opinion of the current live state of the power on a Gotham City thread, but to avoid derailing the topic of conversation here. Ill restrain from quoting it.

    Would you mind to elaborate on how you think these changes on Test are inferior or not as preferable to Live? What would you personally like to see changed that wouldn't jeopardize the overall direction the revamp is heading in?
  13. MyDpsIsBetter Committed Player

    Where do I start, Dps side of things this power set doesn't even feel like Rage before AM which was really fun.
    I attempted a easy rotation of Plasma Retch and like others was greeted with now its fear gas status and ur dot is loss.... i don't know whats going on with the devs but this simple dumb down non sense isn't what we want........
    That aside I then tried Galling and for it's power cost it still has limited range this moves needs to have some distance. I like the new tap to Outrage but like others said why the increase in cool down this Power set plays so slow it is worse then what we have on Live.. Dreadful blast I hate the fact on live this is the only means rage has of range dps. I am in favor of it going back to a range dps rotation for Plasma Rench jump cancel blood lust weapon combo in dreadful and repeat currently with a melee based rage loadout I feel really limited power wise no matter how I spec.

    Dps Wise
    My Advice
    "Out Rage"- Lower the base Damage and power cost of Outrage if damage is the issue. Decrease the recast to 1 second allowing the move to be spammed again.
    "Berzerk"- should apply Plasma P.i and also Be reduced to a 25 or 35% super charge.
    "Galling Eruption"- Should work as Inferno and CoD and be put on the target, If this is not possible then lowering it's power cost is a must.
    "Mangle"- Has no purpose on this game sadly, It needs to be replaced my suggestion is allowing Rage to enter a state where incoming damage is reduced in dps stance by 70%, and 10% while in tank Stance and increasing damage done in tank role by 70% and in dps role by 10%. Allowing for a short period of time allowing Rage dps to melee in any content for a brief period of time. I know in raids we normally spec slot for range powers but if this state gave us a pre rendered set of close range powers it would be ideal.
    "Range Dps" Needs a over haul as dreadful blast on test is very limited with it's increased cool down and using it repeatedly on live makes it extremely boring. My Suggestion nobody really uses Ferocity it's animation kills it, turn it into another range dps combo ability that applies a explosion after 5 seconds dealing 20% damage taken back after that 5 seconds, would be a great utility for bosses.
    • Like x 2
  14. Jacob Dragonhunter Loyal Player

    A couple of suggestions/request:

    1. can yall investigate why Galling eruption's animation is causing me so much lag and FPS drops.
    Before yall get any ideas "It's just your internet, it's just your specs" etc, It happens on live and it's still happening on test.

    2. Can revenge be changed back to the pre-update 58 version? Before it got slowed down and changed by a certain dev that I shall not name.

  15. DistantWalker Well-Known Player

    WHAT? WHY?! Im a Rage main it was my first DLC power i loved the heals! The heal made me feel like i was a unstoppable force as described. You took it away?! Rage was so unique, you reworked relentless anger???? WHY?? See no no no, this is when we have to stop the devs and tell them to go back because why? Why was this needed? SOOOOO many other alternatives, why take away something that made rage like no other power?! This....really hurts..
    • Like x 2
  16. Trexlight Loyal Player

    (EDIT: Made corrections to the Combo Counter Health increase calculations. Fixed all of that. Its working as intended)

    So I haven't Tanked an instance yet besides running Wayne Manor Gala with Penryn. Tanking Groups of Adds with no healer or without Remorseless Recovery, you're gonna have a bad time. Rage Tanks will now be hugging our Healers and they'll like us even more now.

    So some numbers I calculated wearing the 166 Gear from the Test Box with no mods, white or coloured:

    Shield
    Redirected Rage - ~30.12%

    Using Penryn's Formula he shared back in the 1.3 Ice Feedback section, I found the strength of the Shield. I was wearing CR 166 DPS Gear:
    Damage Cap = Base Percent Modifier * ((112.5% * resto) + (150% * dom))
    Damage Cap = Base Percent Modifier * ((112.5% * 7091) + (150% * 142))
    Damage Cap = Base Percent Modifier * (7977.38+ 213)
    Damage Cap = Base Percent Modifier * (8190.38)

    Next I found the Damage Cap for Redirected Rage and its 2467. I then divided 2467 by 8190.38 and got 0.3012 which equals to 30.12% Shield Modifier. Shields are much stronger in the Revamp and lasts for either 6 secs duration or until its Health is gone. The higher your Resto/Dom should increase the Shield's Damage Cap.

    Scar Tissue
    Neat name and is the uniqueness for Rage Tanks. Its within the Severe Punishment ability where 75% damage is turned into Heals and if not Canceled, all that damage comes back as one hit. Canceling the Crash is still a thing by moves like Outrage, E. Chain etc and abilities will reduce it like Galling Eruption, Plasma Retch, etc. I'll go more in depth with each ability tomorrow if my Cold allows me (head cold, thanks Nyquil).

    So it has two functions in Tank Role: Increases your Health by 50% of your Dominance and Health increases as your Combo Counter goes up and MAXES out up to 130% of your Dominance.

    - The Increase of Health works. Formula I used in excel: (Wearing 166 Tank Gear from Test Box)
    Health = Base Health (DPS Role) + (50% * Dom)
    Health = 19472 + (50% * 9025)
    Health = 19472 + (4512.5)
    Health = 23984 while in Tank Role

    - The Combo Counter health increase feels wrong to me where the Math comes in My Math was wrong (just as I expected). I tested on a Sparring Target hitting it 1, 2, 3 etc times to note the Health Increase as the Combo Counter went up and found this:

    Combo Counter # / Base Health (Tank Role) / Buffed Health / Increased #
    x1 / 19472 / 24886 / 5414
    x2 / 19472 / 24886 / 5414
    x3 / 19472 / 25789 / 6317
    x4 / 19472 / 25789 / 6317
    x5 / 19472 / 26691 / 7219
    x6 / 19472 / 26991 / 7219
    x7 / 19472 / 26991 / 7219
    x8 / 19472 / 26991 / 7219
    x9 / 19472 / 26691 / 7219
    x10 / 19472 / 27594 / 8122

    I stopped at Combo Counter x10 and want to see if I could get to Maximum Health so i went up to x50 on the Counter and got:

    x50/ 19472 / 31204/ 11732

    Same number appeared at x100 on the Counter too so I figured 31204 is the MAX Health can get buffed to using the Counter at MAX but the calculation doesnt look right and might be on my side but Ill show you the formula I used:

    Health = Base Health (Tank Role) + (130% * Dom)
    Health = 23984 19472 + (130% * 9025)
    Health = 23984 19472 + (11732.5)
    Health = 35717 31204

    Now the above Health is what I calculated to be our MAX when our Combo Counter hits that Max number (I did not go through the breakdown or x11- x49 on the Counter just due to my illness and time frame but will get those numbers this weekend). When x50 is reached on the Combo Counter and even farther its maxed out at 31204 and so that must mean the formula is actually increasing by ~80% of Dom and not 130%. I also have not tried doing calculations to find the % of Dom each Combo Counter Tick increases the Health but Im sure its all here and just need to piece it together later. The Combo Counter health increase is working as intended, i of course used the wrong Base health Number to show the increase.

    Questions
    - Regarding Remorseless Recovery and Infuriate, it says "Capped at a Percentage of your Dom and Resto". I know this is only the first weekend the Power is out and much MUCH playing around is to be done but wondering if you elaborate these %s when you have a moment. With the Abilities work, I doubt I'll be able to reverse engineer to find the numbers lol.

    - Will Severe Punishment do anything for the DPS Role similar to what Relentless Anger does on Live? The Damage Aura I would like added to it for DPS purposes but thats just more of a request. Still gotta play around more with DPSing after i look more into Tanking.

    - Power Costs on Combos is certainly different than i expected when I saw them on Atomic. You have some at the 100 Power Cost but others are at 200 Power Cost where oh yes, the 200 Power Cost abilities are very hard hitting but the Power Drain is quite noticeable. Im still going to suggest bringing back the Self Power Heal Ability from Revamp 1.0 for Play from the Tray playstyle have viable Power back Return since Weapons are not used here.

    Feedback
    I Tanked a Duo and Melee PftT DPSed Seeing Shades Solo so I havent gone into heavy content much but Tanking I dont feel like a God anymore. the 75% Damage to heals is very noticeable and makes you beg you have a healer although with using Remorseless Recovery will help out greatly in those situations without one. May become a new staple for Tanking as we push further into Revamp testing. DPSing I did have Power Issues and Ill have a video of that out Saturday morning ish if I can. When i ran out of Power I didnt have the bored wait like I did with other Powers. Soder was up or Supply Drop was right there but it was still a Power issue. Especially using Frenzy and it being a 100 Power Cost Ability and THEN it has 6 Combos afterwards can eat up your Bar.

    In terms on being balanced with the other Tanks, I will agree. Rage on Live should not exist in the Revamp but of course its only the first playthrough so improvements can be done and thats what we should focus on. I hope to get into some Raids and see what mess I can get my parties through. I plan on using my Shield for the first time and see how it lasts with our 4 seconds of death while Severe is on CD lol.
    • Like x 6
  17. Trexlight Loyal Player


    Relentless and Severe Punishment did the same thing so combining it into one move was the best decision and one of the things the Revamp accomplishes which is to remove duplicate abilities. It would be nice if Severe gives the Damage Aura from RA in DPS Role but its a request at this point.

    Rage is still unique, we still have our core mechanic. Its just been reduced because its overpowered compared to the other Tank Abilities. Its not the best at the moment but thats what we are here to test to see if it needs to be increased a bit more which i believe it does. Lets not chicken little the situation just yet and get in there and give it some proper testing.
    • Like x 5
  18. DistantWalker Well-Known Player

    overpowered? are you serious? rage was never OP it wasn't even the best for tanking at all. Rage was the only power IN THE GAME that had its own way of healing. Wasn't a resto based Heal. They turned it into something totally different alot of rage players are upset about this. This was unneeded this is like the 4th time rage has been nerfed in some form. CHANGE RAGE BACK PLEASE!!!

    Why cant they just leave rage alone? Nobody is going to want to test this we want our 100% heals back!! And relentless anger and severe punishment was not duplicate's they had different feats but still were heals. Nobody asked for this nobody wanted this change. This was just adding to reason why DC is getting hurt more and more. They change things that DONT need to be changed.
    • Like x 4
  19. Burning_Baron Loyal Player



    I agree. Rage is going in a more active direction(all tanks should imo). It fits the power thematically. Popping your power to get buffs and then turtling sounds like the complete opposite of what rage should be about. A few number tweaks will put tanking where it needs to be. I am going to hop on test for this power now (fire and earth as well. If we give thoughtful feedback we will almost never have to block unless for immuniities . Besides if any other tank had to be a Battle tank(which is a stupid term all tanks should be able to do more than be meat shields) Rage should have been one before atomic.
    • Like x 6
  20. Trexlight Loyal Player


    Okay so here's the thing. I refuse to have you derail the feedback of this thread with wild antics that you have shown here and in other posts. If you want to post feedback based off your gameplay with numbers, footage, screenshots then ill join in a discussion with you but this right here, you are not helping because you are not providing proper information that myself and other testers can go by.

    Rage is overpowered on Live. We dont need a Healer, we need a Controller more. Healers feel useless with healing Rage Tanks and this is one of the things they wanted to change was to make healers more usable for Rage Tanks. Yes, we took a nerf to the Damage we absorb and make into Heals but it isnt the end of the world. We still have our Crash mechanic, our Health stacking mechanic has been changed and with my notes I made above it may be a bit bugged but thats expected when testing things. Its never gonna come out shiny, it takes time to polish. Players being upset over a change is as common as finding Pidgeys in Pokemon Go.

    If you wish to complain about the power, please go to Avair's main post and complain there since thats exactly why the thread is there. Comments posted in these Power Threads are about giving feedback on the powers and everything within them. If you are not going to do that, then you are not helping. Your feedback will still be heard in the other thread but this place is for specific feedback, not complaining about change. Lets please keep these posts on topic and keep it organized for when Moja and the Devs come and read this stuff.
    • Like x 7
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