Stats Revamp 1.4 - Nature Feedback

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by Shin-O-B, Feb 24, 2017.

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  1. CrappyHeals Devoted Player


    Ok this vid here isn't me taking shots at gadgets and i don't want this to be changed, i'm just trying to point out that things always don't follow the same rules or don't work the same as everything else.

    Now sticky bomb is a 300 power cost ability with a 0.5 second cooldown (thats bending the "rules" a bit) so in the right situations you can take advantage of that and net yourself some very good numbers and quick. Actually is the fastest and highest burst damage on test right now.

    So take add fights right when you come into a raid everyone is gonna be dropping supply drop after supply drop so there will be tons of power plus your own and a soda for you to do this and pick yourself up some great damage. Then any other time someone drops a supply drop you can get in some more sticky spam or just when you have some extra power. So while you can't do this all the time there will def be opportunities to benefit from this.

    If your worried about swarm you should be more worried about sticky (and making natures dots stronger) cause i can gain much more dps from using a tactic like this when i can. Swarm keeps you in the game around the 20k-22k mark and gadgets sits right up there to only thing is nature,elec and other powers don't have something that can net them that kind of dps in such a fast period. Yea you can argue power cost vs swarm but end result vs end result they both get to the same place but i have nothing that can compete with that when power permits. Nature has no way of stepping up its game with a supply drop other then the bonus damage and maybe dropping a super but gadgets can drop a super and spam sticky till power is low enough then go back to your normal rotation.

    Moral of the story sticky bends the rules everyone is trying to hold things to just like swarm, but the thing is these "rules" aren't always going to hold up cause some powers just work differently then others. I could pick out even more things like this but this isn't the place for it i just wanted to get a point across.

    If you want go to Madrabbits channel and check out the runs he did in a faster paced setting like a duo and you can see that even though swarm seem strong it isn't all that and the elec guy was still able to edge out, it just works in a different way then some other things. Elec's electrocute is weaker then natures swarm but elec has stronger burst then natures voracious plants so its a give take and they both come out to the same result just get there differently.....I feel like i said that before my bad if i did.

    In this vid im speced full might in my gear, all crits and 69/69 might/power with 2 trolls. If i speced for a power build i'd beable to do this a bit more when the situation permitted it. Heck you can even set up a cheesy all power and crit armory just for add fights to get the most out of this. Like i said you can't do this everywhere but there will be times you can and it puts out great dps and with no setup times.
  2. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    If sticky is over performing and out of line, it should be adjusted. That is different from swarm. It isn't from weird splitting damage, it just does way more damage than your stats powers do. I think they should lower it's damage and take what they lowered and add it to the other dots or burst.
  3. CrappyHeals Devoted Player

    The issue with sticky is its a 300 power cost with a 0.5 sec cooldown, but the way gadgets works i think its fine cause while it does bend the rules it still gets to the same place the other powers do in the end. Also if you gave it the regular 3 second cooldown gadgets would stink.
  4. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    That isn't a good comparison, since it's not a pet and it can be scaled with your stats. If they feel it's out of line, it should be adjusted. If it is intended that's fine too. It being a 300 is a cost prohibitive spam, while swarm is a fire and forget pet only to bring it back when off cool down.

    I don't want swarm physically changed only it's damage spread out.
    • Like x 1
  5. CrappyHeals Devoted Player

    Both powers bend the rules but still end up with the same end result that was my point regardless if its a pet or reg power.

    Hey i give in, i'm not gonna argue it anymore if you guys wanna make my power better thats cool with me :p
    • Like x 1
  6. VioletSorceress Committed Player

    Once Poison DoTs are set, player can/should refresh them for 200 power cost with Harvest about every 10 secs.
    Recasting Swarm every 12 secs cost 350 power.

    Power costs wise its normal for Swarm to do more damage than 3x Poison DoTs.

    Another reason for Swarm to do more damage is Poison DoTs and Harvest have CC effects while Swarm is pure damage based.
    • Like x 2
  7. CrappyHeals Devoted Player

    Something else besides the imbalance giving dots more power will do is a lot of things will have to be reworked if some of swarms damage is moved over to the dots.

    1. You would have to shift the damage to only 2 dots cause you would still need swarm plus dots to reach max potential and you could't divide the damage up between 3 dots cause there isn't enough spots on the bar to run 3 dots,swam, carnage and voracious. You would be forced to run wolf form for every boss encounter cause now you would have to have all your dots plus the other things i mentioned out to do well. Leaving a dot out if they were all scaled up would really hurt your dps but the way it is now sure you do better but its not make or break. So like i mentioned the damage could only be divided up between 2 dots say vine lash and briar.

    Another thing is now you need wolf form as a place holder to reach max damage so on adds that puts nature in a bad spot you would never get do as good as nature could cause of setup times and not having all the powers you need on one bar. Not only do you have to stack your dots but your going to be either missing a dot or swarm and not having either of those things will poop on your dps. Not to mention that now we've gone backwards and took a trip to the past and have to spread dots on adds again and we all know how bad that turns out from a dps stand point. Just when all the nature player were happy that we didn't have to do that people got to go and complain about something.

    Problem #2. Now if swam is weak nature just lost what keeps it competitive in burst damage so its going to need either another burst power thats a hard hitter or serpent call would have to be bumped up but even serpent call is slower damage cause its just some rapid dots leading into weaker dots, plus its the super builder so you really couldn't mess with it. Voracious couldn't have the damage upped at the cost of power either cause thats natures spammer and we can't loose that so we would just need a new burst power.

    Honestly a lot of work would have to be doen to get things right if swarm was changed and why mess with the power when its finally working so well. Right not for burst situations Serpent, Swarm, carnage, voracious, a super and any other power you choose is a great build for adds and keeps nature hanging in there. Then for bosses you can run 2 dots,swarm,harvest,carnage and voracious or you can do the wolf form to setup your dots and have a super to use also.

    One or two people here act like swarm is so great you just bring it out and win lol thats not the case at all you'd get run over in dps like that. You still need to use other powers and have a set rotation.

    Right now nature is perfect. Some people are just to focused on one ability and struggle to see end results. I always compare nature and elec cause they are very similar and both get to the same place and have the same setup times they just do it a little different with tradeoffs in dots vs burst.

    Nature is the only power that came on test and doesn't need to be messed with and works pretty well in every situation cause of how things in the power set work. Theres something for every situation and i love that about nature this time. Nature finally works great and i couldn't be happier. Hats off to the devs for a job well done.
    • Like x 1
  8. DaBeama Well-Known Player

    This thread is long so I didn't go through every page to see if this was mentioned. Last night I was testing it and noticed roar did no damage.
  9. Cold Fusion Well-Known Player

    I'm just curious if people are taking into account that pets are CR based and devs have already said that pets will be stronger against other powers if both people are not modded/ leveled .. but weaker if both powers are leveled and modded...

    I'm paraphrasing of course... But surely y'all understand that dots won't benefit nearly as much as burst powersets from increased levels of might from gear and mods...Not to mention colas and supply drops ... If they nerf the pet it will severely diminish nature's damage potential at max level CR.

    The devs need to give max gear to us on test to really balance test Pet powers or Sorcery, Earth and Nature will hit live as the weakest powers in game.
  10. MyDpsIsBetter Dedicated Player

    Huh.....
  11. Ala Rebeldex Loyal Player

    Yesterday i ran Oly with a Leaguemate who was using Nature at 166 cr on Test, he was on top of the board using just Swarm, Serpent Call, Briar, VP and Chaotic Growth. The rest of the DPS´s were above 175cr, i was HL at 175 and was on second spot but with a gap of almost 2 mill IIRC, spending almost the double of power he was using.

    I know that HL is in a bad place now to compare, but there its something fishy with Nature damage output, and i firmly believe that Swarm its the source of this inbalance. I don´t care what other player here its gonna say further,i just hope that the Devs go and test this for themselves and do the math on their own instead of taking my word or anyone else's for granted.
  12. tiempo Well-Known Player

    I was with Crappy yesterday testing overall and discussing/comparing powers. I too thought swarm was a lil OP (but it was really Canivorous Plans - SC) when nature hit the scene but then I realized I was criticizing it out of context, truth is, a power can't be judged by itself, if you judge a power out of context it can be made to seem OP, like the case of Sticky bomb vs Swarm. Spam sticky bomb for a 10 sec parser and you will get an easy 22k parser (that's more then Mental can put out total atm on test), then you start putting it into context (in use with the powers that surround it within its tree and factor in its power cost) and all the sudden you realized it hits that hard because everything else is kinda weak. Then you put yourself in a real situation and find that spamming a 300 power cost move isn't always viable, so you do it when you can, while maintaining a constant hybrid rotation, and voila, your getting top tier dmg....but leave those possible spams out of it and your power will seem weaker then it really is, giving some a skewed perspective on how to judge how their Power is doing dps wise.

    In the case of Swarm you have the same scenario, cast Swarm (unspammable) and watch it's DPS in a 10 sec parser....about 8k Sticky bomb will beat it by a mile, now all the sudden sticky bomb looks OP, but its not, it's splitting dps wierd, but not OP (It's power cost keeps it in check). Now you cast swarm and just spam voracious plats for a 10 sec par and you get 16k, not even close to 22k, but you put those 2 Powers in a raid in equal hands, using the most out of power to squeeze dps out, and I assume the dps will be close. (I say assume because I have yet to test this particular Test, but with all the testing I've done and numbers i've seen I feel confident enough to know how a powers DPS will turn out in OLY by looking at parsers)

    Now Crappy's argument that says Swarms scales with CR and not might, is what keeps IT in check (as power cost does for sticky) and if you compare Swarm within its own context of powers you will notice that the Dot's just don't get there dps wise. Then your natural instincts would tell you well then, just lower swarms damage out and give it to the dots. But there in-lies the problem, cuz now you take away what kept swarm in check, it scaled with your cr, and your putting it On the dots that can be pushed past the scale with skill points, also taking into account that you will just have to buff 2 powers instead of 3 because it will just eat up too many slots on the LD, and the power overall will be more power hungry as you will have to keep casting these more often, and you may loses dps on mobs within skilled groups taking out mobs within seconds while your'e setting up your dots.... Things is this, what some may think is the solution to this, it's what actually keeps it in check, and solutions are given to problems, and in all reality, more testing has to be done to see if it really is one. Where I do see a major problem is in the damage out that other powers are putting out all together need to be brought up to this standard of dps. It provides a great pace for the game and will breed balance across all powers. So every Power can get a 20-22k parser at 166cr with base stats. Oh yeah....weapons need a re, rebalance repass rework.

    Just on a side note, I was finally able to get 22-24k with Atomic....Power hungry as hell, as are Rage and HL (*COUGH COMBO POWERS) but that's for another thread.
  13. HoiiowDreamz Dedicated Player

    I can show you how to get 24-27k as atomic later ^_^ I could only do it for 10s without a troll.
  14. CrappyHeals Devoted Player


    You can't even begin to compare light with anything at this moment cause its in a super bad place power wise and anything you can do consistently puts out pretty bad numbers. If the 166 nature guy was beating people that much higher then him those people just had terrible loadouts. Nature is good but not even the best power on test. I hate when people give comparisons like you just did cause they hold no merit unless you know everyone was equally skilled and using good loadouts. Theres so many variables to consider like what kind of players were they casual or try hards, fully modded, white mods, league buffs, how were they speced, how many skill point, skill level. did they use their orbitals, supply drop and supers every chance they could. Don't come here with random comparisons giving squeed data

    This thing some of you have that think swarm is this god like power is ridiculous, swarm is not tipping the scales especially at 166cr, the others were just using bad stuff. I bet your buddy thats elec beats the nature guys most of the time doesn't he.

    Edit: Oh to add to this i watched a vid of your buddy as nature at 168 beat a guy that was 188 nature. Same power but the other guy was just bad or using something bad, so don't go blaming swarm it was just bad players or laodouts
  15. CrappyHeals Devoted Player


    Heres some data i posted earlier in the thread with a comparison vs elec. The sheet i presented of elec wasn't a cherry picked sheet i could replicate or find ones using better loadouts with better numbers its just to give a reference point where they stand and they are neck and neck. Well in the elec sheet is a bit lower then one nature but you can match that with a dif loadout.

    Click the links and dissect if your interested.
  16. Ala Rebeldex Loyal Player

    You are not my boss and i don't owe you anything so you can't tell me what can or can´t do or say.
    I have ran many times with all the Leaguemates on Test, i have ended at the top of the scoreboard several times, and when i don´t i´m never that far from the rest of the DPS´s of the League, anyhow, i don´t have anything to prove you, you are just one random guy on the internet to me who is very biased on this topic. My feedback is to the devs, not to you.

    In my opinion Nature is the strongest powerset available on test now. If you don´t like what i say, that´s your problem and i honestly don´t care, at the end one day, the Devs are the ones who call the shots, not you.
  17. Ringz Dedicated Player


    I thought the video you posted at the bottom was the proof but it was part of your sig, so now we're left but nothing of your word..... Please refrain from doing that. Your post reminded me of 4 years ago, when people would make threads saying how this power is op because they gotten beaten by it with no context into skill level, mod, spec, rotations. And sadly enough the devs listened to them.

    Thats why we are here where we are at now because of people like that, when we should be focusing on adding new things to the game, not playing catch up. If anything post a video of it to back up your statement.
  18. CrappyHeals Devoted Player


    Not biased i just see the entire picture and all the other thing it will affect unlike you who only sees a single power and since its works in a different way then other pets you think its a issue.
  19. Ala Rebeldex Loyal Player

    This was the run:


    Sadly i couldn´t finished because i got a phone call before Hecate´s fight, but at that point he was top DPS like i said on my previous post. At the end of the video you can see my name on the board: Alarebelde HL.
  20. CrappyHeals Devoted Player


    I don't think this is the vid hes talking about but this is his buddy running at 168 beating some guys higher then him. Mind you the 188 guy is nature also so the reason this gut beat people at a higher level them him isn't cause of nature its either cause of skill or laodout choice.

    Comparisons like this are not what we need


    Edit correction i guess it was the vid . My point proved
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