Stats Revamp 1.4 - Nature Feedback Redux

The thing with elec when it first dropped was it was almost entirely burst and that just wasn't what elec was about imo. Some of us wanted the dots to be good to so you could have a mix of dots and burst not just one playstyle. Elec right now is basically how it always was it has something for every situation except now everything else is inline with it not way better.

One thing you previously failed to grasp is that once all 3 Poison DoTs are set their damage potential goes to Harvest.
So what we really had to compare is:
Swarm's damage, animation time, lack of CC and power cost (350)
Vs
Harvest's total dps, animation time, stun effect and power cost (200)

Now which one in your opinion should deal more damage ?

The 3 parts of Nature dpsing are Harvest, Swarm and Voracious Plants.

You dont want strong Swarm and VPlants are already balanced with comparable spammable abilities from other power sets.
That leaves us with Harvest and Poison refreshing, which if buffed will help Nature only in boss fights while leaving it under performing everywhere else because of long set up times. Devs already made a compromise pretty much preserving our AM by keeping Refreshing in tact.

Believe it or not, DoT Refreshing is the easy route in boss fights since you are eliminating and dont need to use or cast Swarm.

With strong Swarm, you had to cast both Swarm and Harvest to keep with damage. If only Poison stacks get buffed like you propose Swarm becomes optional and just VPlants spam will deal more damage.

Miscalculation or not, putting the emphasis of Nature's dpsing to Swarm was the right thing. It was keeping Nature in check for boss fights and it was helping with burst vs adds.

Those who actually play nature stated this exact thing would happen.

Never officially posted it even though I've said it to friends, but just ask for a ranged aoe burst power for nature to fulfill that role for adds that replaces swarm. Had no problem with nature doing damage, just that it was from the pet. Several other powersets have had abilities added/removed/changed significantly so nature shouldn't be an exception. I'd have a range aoe burst power added to nature and I think Crappy was talking about to changing thorn shield I think it is (point-blank melee move) back to how it used to be or something along those lines. And as a sidenote, no matter how much they buff nature, it won't compete with atomic, rage, or hl melee on bosses, nor will it beat hl or atomic for ranged damage. It'll be more power efficient, but it won't be op damage.

EDIT: Long range dog barks for burst? Tossing a bone, prob gonna miss.

It will need swarm beefed up to at least 2.2k hits at max, in addition to some burst options.
That wouldn't push it to be OP but it would make it better than average, which is something this powerset NEEDS to be.

Druids in WoW have an ability that spawns a mushroom at a targeted location. There are several types, including one that bursts for AOE damage. Something similar would fit thematically for Nature.

Shin-O-B,
as you can see everybody now agrees that after recent changes Nature needs some form of buff.

Basically, buffing Poison DoTs will bring tons of balance issues for Nature in different content.
Like once player sets all 3 DoTs in boss fight he can just block and refresh with Harvest every 10 sec while doing too good PASSIVE damage at close to none power cost or risk.

Buffing Swarm will keep Nature diverse, having decent enough tools for short term fights.
In previous example, stronger Swarm keeps Nature power hungry/fair and also would force players to be more actively battle involved investing more in animation time rather than just blocking in tough situations where other power sets' damage will just stop if they block.

I've never used nature live but I decided to test out and I agree with some saying that swarm doesn't hit as hard. I compared it to electricity Dots. The rest seemed ok to me.

Possible dog form revamp ideas:

It seems like there isn't a clear vision on what dog form is supposed to offer. I propose revamping the power to give it a meaningful purpose.

Ability 1 (Fling): Throw your targets in the air, dealing a burst of damage
Ability 2 (Knockdown): Leap at your targets forcing them to fall down, dealing a burst of damage
Ability 3 (Thick Coat): Bristle your fur gaining a shield that stops damage for 5 seconds
Ability 4 (Lick Wounds): Heal injuries, healing is based on might/power
Ability 5 (Pack Mentality): Howl and summon 2 additional dogs to assist for a sort time. While active, Lick Wounds healing is shared among them
Ability 6 (Hunt): Enter stealth, while in this form speed is increased, a crit modifier similar to gadgets/mental is added, 2 new abilities are presented on loadout bar. (Growl) unnerve enemies causing a defense and attack debuff, doesn't break stealth. (Lunge) Finish off an opponent with a devastating attack, acts as a finisher if enemies are under 35%

Passive buffs in this form should include a permanent defense buff, and crowd control immunity buff. Most of these abilities don't need new animations, just renaming old abilities and updating descriptions/values.

This version of dog form is a melee combatant that deals burst damage with added crowd control elements to alleviate damage directed towards you. With a shield and self heal, dog form gets added durability and sustainability. The "pet power" would work similar to abilities like Swarm and Snow Devil, temporary dps boosting while also deflecting damage away from you by having enemies focus on the other dogs. Stealth is revamped to have combat usefulness, and allow players to access debuffs and a finisher. Cooldowns are negotiable, but should be designed to keep the form balanced and effective in end game content.

I agree on swarm and for a "miscalculation" man did it work well and also match up with the numbers other powers did perfectly while bringing nature together and making it work better then it ever did in terms of different situations. I wonder if they just said miscalculation cause some complained, but whatever the case i don't see it coming back.

I think just buff dots up so 3 dots,harvest,carnage and voracious are in line with other powers. Raise the cost of harvest since it will be doing more damage and thats a wrap for the dots.

Then put thorn shield back to how its always was (Burst damage Spread/refresh) but give it a high melee burst damage at 300 power cost and a 3 second cooldown.

Add another 300 power cost range burst ability and nature should be in good shape but all of those things need to be done not just one for nature to work correctly.

This post is for Shin-O-B

So when finding out that swarms damage was unintended and you had to bring the damage down on it why wasn't the damage taken from swarm factored in to the dots to compensate for swarm being reduced? I'm sure you guys know internally where the powers stand performance wise....i hope but even if you guys aren't sure that why i post those data logs and include the links so not only players could go in and see exactly what each abilities are doing but for you guys as developers to. The charts i presented showed nature with swarm and with out. All the data was there to help you guys so you could make the right changes whatever they may be and not have something like whats going on now happen.

Changes like that scare us cause this game has a very bad track recored for doing things just as what has happened here and never making good on them. I'm really hoping for much more communication cause nature needs some serious help in the dps department. Nothing was even said in this thread about anything till changes where already made and i hope in the future we can discuss changes before they are made.

Please don't let us down with nature is been bad for to many years now. Last time we got a update the guy working on it went on vacation during it and we didn't even get any improvements just more handicaps.

#Naturelivesmatter

why even bother to make wolf martial arts only? why not just let us choose wich weapon we want then?
either bring back its unique combo attacks (bug form aswell!) or get rid of this restriction completely!

all powers consume more than 100 power... only one exception... give is more options, pls!

Here are some base damage numbers for Nature. If you'd like to figure out how much damage these abilities would do with 10,000 Might, just pick a base value and multiply by 88.

• Harvest (300) (Long)
  • 34-38 Burst
  • 1-2 DoT (x12 per poison-stack; 3-stack cap; 37 hits @ cap) (AoE)
  • 71-112 Total Possible Damage on 1 Target

*Note: Harvest's DoT will do 2-4 base AoE damage to surrounding enemies but only 1-2 base damage on your targeted enemy. Also, the DoT will start splitting damage only after there are 4 targets present instead of the typical 3 targets.

• Roar (300) (Mid)
  • 21-23 DoT x6 (AoE)
  • 126-138 Total

• Savage Growth (300) (Mid)
  • 1-2 DoT x11 (AoE)
  • 11-22 Total

• Briar (200) (Long)
  • 34-37 Burst (AoE)
  • 1-2 DoT x13
  • 47-63 Total

• Vine Lash (200) (Long)
  • 61-67 Burst
  • 1-2 Burst (AoE)
  • 1-2 DoT x12
  • 74-93 Total

• Serpent Call (200) (Long)
  • 3-4 DoT x6 (AoE)
  • 1-2 DoT x13 (AoE)
  • 31-50 Total

• Impaling Thorns (200) (Long)
  • 19-21 DoT x4
  • 76-84 Total

• Thorn Burst (200) (Short)
  • DPS Role:
    • 1-2 DoT (x12 per poinson-stack; 3-stack cap; 36 hits @ cap) (AoE)
    • 36-72 Total Possible Damage on 1 Target
  • Healer Role:
    • 39-43 Burst (AoE)

*Note: Thorn Burst's DoT will only start splitting damage after there are 4 targets present instead of the typical 3.

• Swarm (200)
  • At 0 CR:
    • 39-43 DoT x17 (AoE)
    • 663 to 731 Total
  • At 189 CR:
    • 1366-1505 DoT x17 (AoE)
    • 23,222 to 25,585 Total

• Voracious Plants (100) (Long)
  • 27-31 Burst (AoE)
  • 1-3 DoT x3 (AoE)
  • 30-40 Total

Observations and Feedback:

Roar does surprisingly high AoE damage and Vine Lash does surprisingly high single target damage. Voracious is alright, but it'd be nice to have a 200-cost, burst AoE option that leverages the PI.

Speaking of Vine Lash, it has a very small and very weak AoE damage component that only does 1-2 at base. Was that even intentional?

Also, what in the world is up with Savage Growth? It does wayyy too little damage for a 300 cost, midrange ability. Am I missing something here?

For Thorn Burst, it's not exactly obvious that the ability gives you a 6 second shield in addition to the damage. Would it be possible to maintain that thorn bubble animation around your character for the whole 6 seconds just so people are aware that it's actually a shield? Also, I'd like it if the DPS and Healer role functions were merged somewhat. In DPS role, it only does damage if there's already a poison DoT on your target. Otherwise, it doesn't do any damage at all in DPS role, which is kind of odd. It'd be nice if it still did some kind of burst damage even if there are no poison stacks present.

Both Harvest and Thorn Burst gave me a hard time when trying to figure exactly how their DoT spreading works. From what I gather, both abilities place some kind of aura on your target if it had a poison PI on it. That aura does AoE damage, but it only starts splitting at 4 enemies instead of the typical 3. Is that intentional?

Finally, Swarm still does a lot of damage. Even after the damage was corrected, it still seems to be the single most damaging ability Nature has.

For healer role I have to say that the instant group healing powers : flourish and cross polination heal too low compared to other powers.For example with my restoration I heal about 3.400 with galvanize, arc lightning, electroburst, recover (electricity powers) and ritualistic word while with cross polination I heal about 2,2k and with flourish about 1,3k+ has 6 seconds cooldown while other powers have 3 seconds cooldown( pheromones are too low can't depend on them) so base healing out for cross polination and flourish has to be brought in line with other powers + add 3 seconds cooldown for (flourish only) .

I'll try to make a video one of these days to show you exactly what I mean.

I was asked to post this by a fellow tester:

leave the werewolf and the were gorilla but take the dog out never liked that anyway.if you want to you could put telepathy in that spot if you wanted 2. so that we could control the animals or plants.

My suggestions

• Make the Rampage SC clip-able
• Increase PI damage of Poison
• Increase Burst damage
• Maybe make a new Burst Power that has a giant tree (or vine) fist coming out of the ground and does more damage to poisoned enemies.