Stats Revamp 1.3!

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by Avair, Jan 27, 2017.

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  1. Sage-Rapha Steadfast Player

    I would do it but I don't have the tools necessary for video recording.
    But anyway yes that was the question. Would you like to see Play from the tray vs Weapons vs Hybrid in a raid setting?
    If so please note it so that players can record it.

    I bring it up be sure we all want those playstyles to reach equivocal potential and I feel that especially in end game content, we may need to show you the parity between the three in an endgame raid setting.

    Thank you for responding by the way.
  2. SixSigma Well-Known Player

    If the goal is to be able to play 3 different possible ways, how difficult would it be to create additional "Load Out" trays per option. As in, one tray for Hybrid, one for PFTT and one for Weapon. This way each one can be adjusted independently for balancing. Each player could switch between Tray Loadouts the same way we manually switch between roles.

    Switch Role > Tank > Hybrid
    > PFTT
    > Weapon
    > DPS > Hybrid
    > PFTT
    > Weapon

    Additionally, any of these tray/role specific loadouts could be saved in our Armory's.
  3. Avair Lead Systems

    It would be difficult to do this on a test only basis and I do not think that is how we would want to go live (if it is what we want in the end, it would be an added feature rather than one in the initial scope). However, we are very interested in hearing opinions on the matter. The more specific, the better.

    I do like watching videos of players playing. It helps a ton, especially if they explain what is going on and the problems they have with it.

    We currently have plans to adjust every power set, but the specific adjustments change over time, so I cannot say the details at the moment. I am sorry.
    • Like x 1
  4. Celestial Powers Committed Player

    Does this mean you're considering reverting the healing changes back to their live variants and build upon those abilities or are we more or less stuck with how certain powers function now? And I mean the way the healing powers worked off one another like the Bio Charge PI and Golden Soul Aura as well as any abilities that were completely changed?
  5. Mystere Well-Known Player

    This may sound a little too like WM or AM, but consider whether you want to add some kind of dmg bonus in these circumstances:

    Weapon Focus - you get an increase to weapon damage attacks if consistently using weapons without an ability (except for weapon buff ability). Almost like the ramp up time for Hard Light currently. The ramp time wouldn't have to be long - with the key being that it is uninterrupted weapon attacks (no sneaking in a power).

    Pftt: Same as above, the longer you go without using a weapon the more your damage scales up.
  6. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    Toggle system for weapons. Where while one power is active, it gives a change based on that towards what you are going for. This would be very useful for weapon only builds.

    I do believe you have all the tech required. Basically while active, you get a boost to precision attacks and offensive attacks would be greyed out. This way, hybrid builds wouldn't benefit the damage buff.

    Example of what I'm talking about. I'll use Gadgets.
    Loadout Battle Display, Suppressor Turret, Distract, Gauss Grenade, Holographic Decoy, Bunker Buster

    So Battle Display would be a toggle. If you hit it, Gauss Grenade and Suppressor Turret would grey out. But your weapons would gain damage buff that would compensate for the loss of might attacks. If you wanted to switch to a hybrid mid damage, you hit BaD again and lose your buff, but you now can hybrid might attacks into it. Where all defensive powers and super charges would be allowed while active.

    The reason why I think you have the tech is the one Rage Supercharge that is a toggle as well as you were able to disable wm crits while AMs were being used.
  7. Mystere Well-Known Player

    Or its a precision boost with a might decrease - so you could still use powers but with less effectiveness. Vice versa for pftt.
  8. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    Now you are thinking with Portals! :D

    But yeah, something like that. A toggle that allows for it, but for a pfft, I wouldn't like that because it would take a slot that I would otherwise prefer to have a power I can hit on it. While with weapon combos, you would be using the buff anyways.
  9. SixSigma Well-Known Player

    Totally understandable, it would be a large undertaking. It was more of an idea for the future if it were to lead to that.
  10. Karasawa Loyal Player

    When I first heard you were going to try and balance between 3 forms of DPS I thought it was quite ambitious. Maybe a little too ambitious. Other posters also seemed skeptical (and were probably a little more vocal about it) but I have been curious about something since then:

    What's the difference really between 'Hybrid' and 'Weapon Focused' playstyles?

    They're both expected to use abilities and they're both expected to use weapon combos aren't they? Perhaps balance would be more easily attainable if instead of 3 unique modes of play there were only 2; weapon-usage vs. no weapon-usage.

    Also, I have another concern regarding our ability to PftT. One thing this game always did well was having risk/reward in any form of direct damage. Weapon combos are either blockable or interruptable, tray abilities consume significant power, and even the AMs on Live typically make you vulnerable to interrupt for the duration. On Test, with the right setup we can cast our abilities essentially forever. Where is the risk? Or as someone else more eloquently put it;

    I think this problem would be especially apparent in an inevitable player-versus-player environment. Both sides would be completely focused on their own rotation with no need to pay attention to what their opponent was doing since there would be no way to actually stop them from just spamming their abilities. There would be no counterplay. They wouldn't be vulnerable to interrupt, or vulnerable to block, or ever run out of power (if setup right) so you may as well just focus completely on your own rotation and forget about paying attention to the battlefield.

    This may sound crazy, and I know I'm contradicting my previous feedback but.. maybe you should bring back the "Self Power Heal" abilities from v1.0 and make them more like the AM self power abilities on Live (Battle Display, Psychic Resonance, Cold Snap, etc). That way self power abilities would be required for PftT, they would not inadvertently increase the effectiveness of Hybrids, they could be given risk in the form of vulnerabilty to interrupt, and (unlike Live) you could actually balance their damage potential with other playstyles this time.
    • Like x 1
  11. Harlequin Loyal Player

    I do not envy your work here. Considering that the goal post is ever moving ("In fact, we are likely to increase the cap over time in order to keep up with player growth, so it could get worse.") balancing this mess is sure to be a real head scratcher. Consider how much easier that work would be and how much more freedom you would have as a system designer if there were a cap on the number of SP each player could have.

    I have believed from my very first experience in this game that the SP system was potentially the biggest flaw the game could have. The gap between the haves and the have-nots has and will continue to contribute to the difficulty in balancing the game in a major way. From what you just said, it's only going to get worse as the SP cap gets higher and higher.

    Tying player power to feats was a mistake. The unfettered inflation of SP will eventually cause the game to collapse under the weight of insane stats. IMO, of course.
  12. Maxwill Committed Player

    Hi Avair

    Yeah would be great if we get some damage bonus from using weapon mastery successfully and the weapon hits that take longer to complete should do more damage , also please let us know how to increase damage with weapons, I asked this so many times, how much precision = to 1 dps or how much precision = 1% more damage with weapons ?
  13. Immortal Kyrro Loyal Player

    I don't know if this has been brought up or not, but requiring tanks to spend X amount of sp into useless crits (healing helps some powers more than others) is unfair. Could healing crits work on both healing out and received? Not necessarily at the same scale but enough where spending those sp there doesn't feel like a waste? Or even another category for absorption or mitigation. Something.
    • Like x 1
  14. StealthBlue Dedicated Player

    You could accomplish a better version of what you are after just by using 4 different armories, since they each need different skill point allocations.
    pfft armoiry is power heavy
    weapon is precision heavy
    hybrid you may want to be might heavy
    then have your support role as the 4th armory
  15. Nucleus DC Well-Known Player

    Avair I am a little worried that we are at a point where the "plan" has been thrown to the waste side and we are now shooting from the hip on whatever sticks to the white board in fully developing this "Revamp." This revamp has when from a STATS MATTER development to a total rework of DCUO power-sets and it seems that all options are open and no real plan is in place.

    Very scary indeed...please tell me i am wrong
    • Like x 3
  16. Maxwill Committed Player

    How about 10 precision =1 dps, or 1% damage increase for weapon hits or powers?
    4 Restoration=1 healing out more or 1% healing out increase ...
    Shields working how they work on live : 100% of Dominance + 100% of Restoration (some shields exclude restoration or dominance on live I think, which is ok)
    In that way our SP which we spent so many months working on will finally pay off, they will prove its worth, also some of us spent alot of ingame and real life money (millions ingame) 100 + euros to get some feats like from time capsules so I strongly suggest we see our hard work and money affect alot our stats and combat performance .
  17. Mystere Well-Known Player

    Another idea...

    The players that can't figure out 1,2,3,4 on live will never figure our how they should allocate their skill points based on their desired playstyle. These people clearly don't read forums etc so will have no idea that for Weapon focus use prec, hybrid pick might or prec, pfft power etc. Thus, how about adding something that walks a player through. At the respec station you choose your focus, Weapon, Hybrid, PfTT and then you automatically allocate their SP to the idea allocation. You can add an advanced tab so that experienced players can manually overwrite the allocation. It would save a lot of heartache.
    • Like x 1
  18. Cold Fusion Well-Known Player

    Well a Hybrid would benefit most from mixed stats.. But less in a single dedicated stat.

    Tray Build benefit dedicated might

    Weapon Build benefit dedicated precision

    I know I'm stating the obvious on those facts...

    So a good way to buff weapons or Tray Build without buffing Hybrid as much or at all would be a percentage based + buff and - debuff that needs to be equipped.

    Example: Tactical feet mods .. 3 sets in the base vendor.

    1st set has the normal feet innate and + 5% might buff and - 5% precision debuff.

    2nd set has normal feet innate
    +5% precision buff and -5% might debuff.

    3 set just the normal feet innate.

    Seems like the Tray and weapons build would gain more of what matters and lose some of what doesn't matter as much for a net gain.
    But Hybrid would break even as long as powers and weapons damage was balanced there would be no gain for them either way.
  19. Derio Steadfast Player

    For Hybrid most players in the community feel its not picking a stat but spreading them out as Hybrid is more of a balanced build. Meaning you have the best of both worlds. When people think Hybrid they think of Precision and might mods. Not just precision or just might. Because unlike the other 2 builds you are using both weapons and powers. You arent using weapon as much as a pure weapon user and you arent using powers like a PftT user.

    An example for Hybrid is having both might and precision mods. Having big heavy cost power moves that apply dots and burst and supplementing damage with weapon combos while you wait for your moves to come off cooldown. The traditional weapon clip to power, weapon clip to power playstyle, as compared to the other playstyles.

    Since SP got reduced in value mods are dominantly the most important next to gear.

    PftT: Might and Power
    Hybrid: Might and Precision
    Weapon only: Precision and Power or simply just full Precision mods.

    The factor of a person using both Power and Weapons equally come into play when we think of Hybrid
    • Like x 1
  20. loupblanc Dedicated Player

    1) New SP reset item for Test Server, allowing specified Skill Point number

    - Reduces time for testing.

    Testers can immediately login and create a character on Test Server with exact amount of Skill Points as their character(s) on Live, and get a direct comparison between performance on Live versus performance on Test, if Stats Revamp were to go live now. This avoids people having to guess and / or extrapolate testing numbers to get an approximate idea of their character performance if Stats Revamp were to go live now.

    - Easier testing for different Tiers.

    With each revamp, old Tier content has to be checked to ensure they are tuned correctly. Set testing benchmark for different tiers eg
    - T1 - 40 Skill Points
    - T2 - 60 Skill Points
    - T3 - 80 Skill Points
    - T4 - 100 Skill Points
    - T5 - 140 Skill Points
    - T6 - 160 Skill Points
    - T7 - 180 Skill Points
    - T8 - 200 Skill Points

    2) Gift items for Testers devoting time to Test Server

    The grind in the game has increased. The gear grind. The money grind to build enough in-game currency to get vanity items and / or increase Skill Points. Any Tester devoting more time on Test versus playing on Live and building up their character(s) and / or in-game currency is making a choice towards trying to improve the game versus grinding on Live and thus, should be rewarded accordingly for their effort.

    3) Specific time where developers are on Test Server with Testers

    Having Testers and developers test together on Test Server with increased interaction and discussion builds the community, along with the potential to improve future solutions to current problems (Live Issues, QOL Issues, Stat Revamp Issues) etc.
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