Stats Revamp 1.3 - Sorcery Feedback!

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by Avair, Feb 10, 2017.

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  1. Heart Well-Known Player

    I have couple bugs to report:

    Condemn does now less damage to enemies with Bad Karma than enemies without it.

    2. If you summon Watcher or Fury and then activate armory you keep the pet even if your armory loadout doesn't have it.

    I hope you get these fixed! ;)
  2. Infamous Hacker Active Player

    According to my testing playing with the Fury yields the most damage by a good bit. Its a significant bit of damage that you only have to use offering with to make it work. Its almost like having a constant 25% supercharge available whenever you have power. All 3 playstyles benefit from using the fury in their loadout.... At this point im really just wishing Sorcery wasnt a pet power at all. I would like the option to not have to rely on the Fury for my damage.

    Playing from the tray is still inferior to the hybrid playstyle. Both styles yield greater damage with the Fury, but Hybrid gets to keep their power AND their damage going. Playing from the tray is dealing low damage and running out of power even after the extra power being given from the most recent controller changes. I didnt spec into might at all with my skill points, only with my mods. I sank 85 skill points into power and I still kept running out. Having to dump 85 out of 170 is a very unreasonable number IMO just to play from the tray. I played from the tray in an Olympus raid against other dps who were using the hybrid Solar Flame playstyle. I was last on the scorecard for dps until I started using the hybrid style myself at Hectae. Because I started using hybrid style (with the Fury) I made it up to 3rd in damage.

    What would be the problem with having the Pftt playstyle operate like mental does now on live? You dont stay fully powered because you slowly run out, but all of the powers you are using interact with each other to keep up their damage. Thats what we are asking for with playing from the tray. I dont see how you can expect playing from the tray to be truly equal unless you allow at least that much to happen.

    Finally I feel like as long as hybrid dps can split their skills/mods between precision and might EQUALLY and use Solar Flame, while playing from the tray has to dump vast majority of their spec into Power alone it wont be balanced. Less might means less damage. We cast our powers at the same speed the other dps do, so we will always be behind.
    • Like x 1
  3. L T Devoted Player

    What CR were you testing at? From the patch notes it seems like they did some kind of CR-scaling with Fury (which seems scary to me because that sort of thing has gotten messed up in the past pretty badly). I think you have to test at different CRs inside the tier to really see how things are working-- unless I'm misreading the patch notes, which could be.

    As far as Sorcery being a pet power, I'm ok with that. Pets are what gives sorcery its flavor and uniqueness.

    I think the general idea is that if you play from the tray, you split your skill points between power and might, and if you hybrid, you split your skill points between precision and might, so in both cases you wind up with about the same might. Probably not quite working right.

    Maybe what play from the tray needs is what most AMs have on live and what test builds started out having: An ability that triggers extra power back. Then you'd have to make a decision when playing fro the tray: do I want the extra ability I can use or do I want the burst of power?
  4. Fearless Fury New Player

    For Ritualistic Word, why not make it a conditional power ?

    Example of what I am getting at is this.

    If you have Watcher active in your loadout have it do the following.
    • Ritualistic Word gives Watcher power back. ( Same as current Live Server )
    If you do not have Watcher active in your loadout ( or not in your loadout at all )
    • Ritualistic Word does not give power back as there is no Watcher.
    • Increased healing. ( Same as current Test Server )
    This would then give the users more options and at the same time keeping it inline
    with the direction you are trying to go with the powerset.
  5. Black Dawn Steadfast Player

    So I've been thinking a lot about the "have to have a move to power your pet issue" and I'm wondering if there isn't an alternative path to this.

    What if: Gold Soul Aura (GSA) and Red Soul Aura (RSA) were brought back and when they are active they give power back to your pet? This would free up a space on our load out AND bring back the amazing visuals of both RSA and GSA. Also, in my testing I've found Offering to be...iffy...when it comes to keeping Watcher's power at max and it would fluctuate wildly even when there was nothing to heal/atack.
    Now a few conditions to this would be:
    • GSA would power Watcher and Guardian
    • RSA would power Fury and Guardian
    • GSA would only be able to be obtained whilst in healer mode and RSA would only be able to be obtained whilst in DPS mode.
    • The player would have to use powers to activate and keep GSA/RSA active (EX: currently on live you can use Rejunivate to activate GSA)
    • Different moves (more than one) could be used to activate and renew GSA/RSA.
    If you don't like that idea, I have another one:
    Whilst in healer mode, Bad Karma becomes Good Karma and heals you and surrounding allies. (This idea isn't as thought out, but I like it nonetheless)
    • Like x 3
  6. Infamous Hacker Active Player

    My problem is simply that my damage only goes up further WITH the Fury on my loadout. that will be the same across all CRs. It makes competitive damage limited to using only the Fury. Its damage will only improve as my CR does. It deals less damage than it does on live, thats what they have fixed with this update as I understand it. But its a separate HARD hitting superpower essentially. Thats why its SO good. If you make a loadout and test its rotation and damage without Fury, then make a loadout and test its damage with it then you will see the dps improve because of Fury. Thats gonna happen with every CR. The Furys attack hits FAR harder than every other non-supercharge burst power that Sorcery has to offer. Thats the problem. If it must be that way then i guess i just wont use Sorcery. Even though its my favorite power id hate to be kicked from groups because of my terrible damage out numbers without Fury.

    Hybrid play styles might abilities coupled with higher precision and the speed of Solar Flame makes for more dps than playing from the tray where you HAVE TO spec more into power to do it. If you dont and you split it between power and might you will be able to do your rotations maybe 4 times before you are out of power.... Thats not playing from the tray. The damage cant possibly be equal like that.

    We need an item or something that replaces your weapon and somehow makes playing from the tray viable. Thats one sugestion to solve the problem.
    • Like x 1
  7. Infamous Hacker Active Player

    lol Condemn needs to be replaced by Shard of Life or at least something more useful. All single target non-taunting powers need to be replaced. Final Ruin deals A LOT of damage to 1 target and even more to enemies below 35%. Its very useful. Condemn is a joke with no punchline... it has no use... It needs to at the very least be made into a cone AoE. A good bit of Mentals powers are AoE making their loadouts more effective over all. Condemn offers NO advantage against ANY of Mentals burst powers, or any of Sorcerys other powers for that matter. Its the worst ability by far.
  8. Immortal Kyrro Loyal Player

    Simple solution to make fury not effective outside a pet build, give all other might powers a base damage boost and have it negated when fury is active. It's really that simple, anything else results in things being out of whack and requiring multiple tweaks as progression happens.

    Making pets less effective at max cr to maxed out characters is a bad idea. I shouldn't HAVE to have a different loadout for entry level and max level for content. I WANT to have multiple loadouts based on how I FEEL like playing that day.
  9. tioalbert Well-Known Player

    Hello everyone

    I am the one that uses mascot, supercarga mascot, circle of destruction, abyss and other slots what is necessary,
    I feel even more weak my damages than before, I will not ask to return mascot as it was before, because I really like so.
    What if it is that I do not see when this active red aura, and I will not ask them to return aura image because I do not like problems with effects of offering on pet.
    speaking of offering agree with other players in that we do not have to spend Another slot for pet benefit and also in that there is no need to increase pet damage by interacting powers.
    I almost forgot to interact with powers of circle destruction is deficient by its requirements and abyss of souls does not have any, and red aura has few (if anything) powers that benefit from this.

    Then I suggest the following; Remove the benefits that give a pet and allow them to activate next to a pet red aura and in turn interact with the powers of destructive circle and soul abysses.
    I mean that these 2 powers when red aura this active increase damages or it is possible to active a second circle d. Or abyss souls within the reutilisation time of 12 seconds.

    And as an offering, I would be free to use it as an instantaneous mid-range healing that does not exist.
  10. Ala Rebeldex Loyal Player

    I just want to share my final thoughts on Sorcery after test it the hell out of it during this week.

    Pet Build feels stronger by a large margin then playing without it. I think one of the reasons this is more obvious is because of the last change did it to Condemn, which was perfect the way it was before; its own trade off is that is a single target ability, the cooldown reduction and nerf in damage was really uncalled for, i didn´t see anyone asking for it and hurts power management aswell (since you have to spend the double of power to do the same amount of damage than the previous version.)

    Another thing that i will suggest is to buff the Supercharge generators a lil bit more. This could happen in two ways, either increasing the amount of SC gained by cast or (which is the one i prefer) increasing the amount of damage done, im saying this because running with this abilities is a DPS loss that it does not get compensated by the time gained to reach the amount of SC need it to cast those Super abilities.

    And no, im not asking for a nerf to the Fury, just to make a No pet loadout on par with it.
    • Like x 2
  11. Mepps Sr. Community Manager

    • Added new abilities to provide more Play from the Tray (PftT) DPS and battle healing options.
    o Shard of Life – New Ability! Unlocks at level 19 – Cost: 300. CD: 6s. Range: 25m distance and 7m radius. Deals burst damage and damage over time to the target and nearby enemies. Benefits from Bad Karma. Healer Role: deals reduced damage but heals allies near the target over time.
    o Soul Bolt – New Ability! Unlocks at level 22 – Cost: 100. CD: 0.5s. Range: 25m distance and 7m radius. Projectile attack that deals damage to the target and nearby enemies. Benefits from Bad Karma. Healer Role: deals reduced damage but heals allies near the target.
    • Transmutation – Now unlocks at level 13. Increased cost to 200. Increased cooldown to 3s. Increased damage and healing accordingly. Updated animation and visual effects to deploy an instant burst of damage to the target and nearby enemies. No longer uses a projectile. Now knocks down targets and applies Bad Karma. Healer Role: deals reduced damage but heals allies near the target.
    • Offering - Now unlocks at level 5.
    • Fury now - Unlocks at level 16.
    • Condemn - By popular demand, reverted the cooldown to 12s and increased the damage accordingly.
    • Polymorph - Minor adjustment to damage values to account for CC.
    • Baleful Transmogrification - Minor adjustment to damage values to account for CC.
    • Karmic Suspension
    o Now a Long Range Target AOE (25m distance and 7m radius), rather than a Midrange PBAE (was 13m radius around self).
    o Updated icon.
    • Like x 6
  12. Celestial Powers Committed Player

    Unlike Electric (Surprisingly), Sorcery healing is falling down the hole of having too many abilities for specific scenarios which do very little in healing and require a lot from you.

    Shard of Life:

    Couldn't we get the old icon for this ability back? :(

    OK, Seriously, while it functions back to how it does similarly on live it is very lackluster, the range is much lower than I remember and the healing being received is pitiful especially for a 6 second cooldown and 300 power cost, I hate to say it but this ability is useless to heal with and a shadow of it's live variant, the burst and the HoTs need healing increases, the cooldown reduced and the power costs especially reduced because it requires too unique of a scenario to be useful for heal role. This might cause conflict with the DPS side so healing number increases as well as range increases might be the only options. These need to increase, big time. At 19000 resto it was critting for 3.4k with non crit HoTs of 100s...

    Soul Bolt:

    Old test Transmutation, this ability is worthless, low healing - this ability won't save anyone, It has the same issues I mentioned Transmutation had in the previous version of Sorcery - low range, low strength, what is the point of using this ability over the new Transmutation? Spamming Rejuvenate over and over will be better than casting this ability in everyone's in proximity to the blast. At my resto it was healing for 1200s


    Not exactly how it is on live, gives a flat heal no matter how many enemies there are and is basically the same thing as Shard of Life except all the healing is on one burst. So... what's the point in using Shard of Life if I have this? They're basically carbon copies of each other - they require the same scenario to work, deliver the same method of healing (Localized Group Healing) the only difference is Shard has a small HoT which at 19000 resto was doing 100s, this is completely useless. At my resto Transmutation was doing 4k crits. Make the healing based on your positioning but then this would make it too similar to Electrics Electroburst so the only retention for any uniqueness is to put it back to how it worked on live and increase the range because the version on live didn't have range to which was viable to use.

    Existing Issues:

    If you leave Circle you stop receiving healing, this alone makes this ability undesirable to use as I get punished for my team mates bouncing around, revert this please.

    All healing abilities are still way too weak in comparison to their cooldown/power costs. Despite having numerous ally targeting heals they heal very little and then you need to wait 3/6/18 seconds to use them again... Please stop restricting us on cooldowns and power costs, combined with weak healing it just feels spamming is necessary and everything ends up on cooldown to make sure people survive. Either restore our restoration/ability strength back to what it was before the NPC Damage change or reduce the power costs and cooldowns.

    These numbers won't cut it in hard content, heck even the group that tried DWFn on test at CR 180-188 couldn't beat the raid. Remove the Olympus raid or all easy raids and force people to do hard content so we can get real insight as to what the numbers need to be.


    Many people are arguing that having offering, which does no healing besides powering the pet is clunky and doesn't promote variation in loadouts. I saw someone suggest to make it back to how it was initially - Sacrificial Offering which placed a HoT on 4 people and powered the pet too. How about, you recreate this ability but rather make it an 8 man HoT but reduce the amount of power return it gives back to the Watcher? This way you're not pigeon holed to using it primarily because it does everything, Offering will give the pet more power to cast more burst healing while Sacrificial Offering would give you the same value in healing with less delay as the Watcher can take some time to heal and you actually have some choice in pet powering.
    • Like x 2
  13. Rokyn Dedicated Player


    1. Pet damage and Pet healing: I'm ashamed to say that I'm a valid pet user among the many anti-pet users in this thread. I love using pets with Sorcery. I guess I'm in the extreme minority but I don't like the changes to Fury hitting less at end CR and Watcher healing a bit less than before. I want to make sure that if I use a pet at end CR, that I can match another users who uses PftT/weapon/hybrid and vice versa. The way Avair described it, made it seem like if I was a pet user, I would be SOL if I was at end game CR. For people who don't want to use a pet, I definitely understand the concern but don't force changes that will make pet users like myself incapable of keeping up.

    2. The battle healer options (Soul Bolt, Shard, Transmutation): I feel these three abilities do too much of the same thing in terms of be even remotely useful. Each of the heals are much more weaker than other abilities (though I understand that these abilities do good damage and heal so I understand why one is weaker than the other). Try to mix up the mechanics on the three heals. Like make one of them heal more depending on how many enemy targets there are (like Cross Pol or Galvanize).

    3. I like the changes to Karmic Suspension. Very useful now with it's long range ability and supercharge gain.

    4. I have a suggestion for Circle of Protection to work like Soul Well. Where if you lay it down, it can heal everyone around 25m of it....whether or not you step on it. This is not a needed change but a quality of life change. It just takes a bit more skill in terms of placement.
    • Like x 1
  14. Rokyn Dedicated Player

    Well technically, Offering isn't a heal itself but the moment you use it with Watcher....the Watcher immediately does a burst heal that's pretty strong. It can do about 2 of those burst heals in that one Offering (6 second cooldown). It's very efficient.

    But I do like your idea except that it would almost make it mandatory in Sorcery loadouts since it will be really really good.
  15. Sage-Rapha Steadfast Player

    For the pet I would rather Fury attack three times again. Just make sure it only attacks with a full power bar; that way it can keep up and still be balanced out.
    What do you think?
  16. Celestial Powers Committed Player

    It was pretty strong before they nerfed it, it doesn't even heal all 8 people anymore, increase the healing to all 8 people if you want to keep it at this strength, it just feels very lackluster right now.
    • Like x 1
  17. Sage-Rapha Steadfast Player

    I wouldn't even keep it at the current strength.. it's a little sad lol.
    It's original strength should be restored to be honest.

    I would like to see Shard of Life increased to 12-24 on its hot at the base level.
    It's kinda too weak. The burst is ok being at 24-36. If it could become 32-42 it'd be even better.
  18. LeftToRight New Player

    Now that sorcery has some what of a normal pftt bring back the pet damage output

  19. Rokyn Dedicated Player

    I think it does heal all 8, check out one of my sorcery vids. At least that's what it looks like on my end.
  20. Cold Fusion Well-Known Player


    So many pets are ignored or abused and others go hungry... Don't let this revamp put more pets on the street...
    Don't let your pets be spayed or neutered... LoL
    • Like x 1
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