Stats Revamp 1.3 - Sorcery Feedback!

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by Avair, Feb 10, 2017.

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  1. Avair Administrator

    Power Set Feedback: Sorcery

    If you haven't, please read this thread about overall survey results.

    In this thread, I will address the top 3 pieces of feedback for Sorcery. In some cases, I will describe what changes we are making based on your feedback. In other cases, I will describe why we are not (at this time) making changes. Thanks to everyone who gave feedback and remains passionate about the Sorcery power set. We appreciate it and want to make sure that we can continue working together to make Sorcery amazing.

    The top three pieces of feedback are:
    • Healing: You were concerned healing feels too weak
    • Pets: You were concerned about Pets and Ritualistic Word
    • Cooldowns: You were concerned that cooldowns feel too long

    The number one piece of feedback for Sorcery was that healing felt weak. This touches on similar issues that we saw with Ice and Electricity. The first thing we look at here is difficulty of completing content - can content be completed? If players are unable to complete content, find it too hard, or too easy, we will adjust these numbers. Currently we are not seeing that. If this is not your experience, please let us know.


    Many of you raised concerns about the viability of Sorcery DPS without pets. This splits into 2 issues: pet builds outperforming non-pet builds and Sorcery’s lack of options for PftT.

    For pets, we’ve reduced their damage to make them competitive with other abilities for players that are well equipped, but not fully maxed out. This means that when characters are weaker (lower SP, not fully modded, etc.), pets will tend to outperform raw abilities. However, once characters are fully equipped with mods, generator mods, tactical mods, skill points, consumables, etc., abilities should outperform pets.

    On pets, we also had concerns raised that Ritualistic Word no longer feeds the Watcher pet. We did this so that we could increase the raw healing from Ritualistic Word and to make bringing Watcher an option, not a requirement, for Sorcery healers. If we returned the ability to feed Watcher, we would in turn have to reduce the healing on Ritualistic Word, and we feel it’s in a good spot right now.

    Cooldowns and PftT

    We adjusted a significant number of cool downs on each power set, including Sorcery. You are welcome to read more information in the overall thread, but we have specifically lowered the cooldown of 3 sorcery abilities: Karmic Backlash, Shard of Life, and Condemn.

    We are also evaluating Sorcery’s options for PftT and recognize they have fewer than other power sets due to how many slots pet abilities fill. We’re specifically working to bring back Shard of Life and restore the functionality of Transmutation in order to address these issues, and would love to hear more feedback about the niche you feel these abilities should fill.
    • Like x 7
  2. Moja Developer

    Patch Notes:

    • Reduced the cooldowns of Karmic Suspension, Karmic Backlash, and Condemn, and adjusted their damage accordingly.
    • Reduced Supercharge Generation of Karmic Suspension to account for the new cooldown. Karmic Suspension should no longer build Supercharge from hitting objects.
    • Reduced the damage of pets at high CR ranges
    • Like x 1
  3. MsTickle Fate Devoted Player

    However, in the very next comment, Moja writes:
    So did you reduce the cooldown of 4 sorcery abilities, rather than 3, or what is the explanation for why you, Avair, mention Shard of Life, but Moja mentions Karmic Suspension, and neither of you mentions the other power? Are you guys on the same page, or what? :)
  4. Ala Rebeldex Loyal Player

    Why you guys had to touch condemn? The cooldown wasnt an issue IMO, now i suppose that the damage was nerfed to compensate.
    Not a fan of this change at all.
    • Like x 1
  5. Jacob Dragonhunter Steadfast Player

    This part confuses me. Why can't you guys just make Fury a Might Based Pet? Pet playstyles should be equal to PFTT, not better(unmaxed toons) and not worse(Maxed toons)

    As I've said time and time again, Players tend to look for Optimal Rotations without the need to Handicap themselves. With the formula you guys are using for Sorcery PFTT and Pets; People will just use Fury at a Lower CR and then switch to a PFTT when they become a high CR.

    In the long run this doesn't sound good and it certainly doesn't sound balanced. People shouldn't be under-performing because they either wanna use Pftt or the Pet.
    • Like x 1
  6. Mepps Sr. Community Manager

    This is likely an issue between different iterations. I suspect Moja's comments are most up to date, but we'll have to sort it out next week.
    • Like x 1
  7. VioletSorceress Committed Player

    That was already the case at Live Server.
    Pets were performing very well at entry Cr with close to no modding going as far as Betas and Synthetics. At 189-190cr the likes of Mental, Gadget and Ice are performing way better than Pets. Im worried how much weaker Pets will feel at maxed content gear now.

    I think better approach would be to increase Power return penalty Fury has instead of weakening it at high Cr.
    And at the same time buff at least 1 damage abilitiy's damage output and power cost to 300. Id like to see Soul Well moved to 300 power cost and with stronger DoTs. That way players wont be able to use Fury along with high power cost powers meant for PftT.

    I think you meant to say that you reduced cooldown of Karmic Suspension since Shard of Life is still not restored to Sorcery with this update.

    If and when you restore it, I think Shard of Life would be best as a high burst+short dot utilizing Bad Karma PI for extra damage and something like 6 sec cooldown and 300 Power cost.

    As for Transmutation's current Test Server effect and animation(and this is something Ive noticed about Ice's Snow Ball and other fast 100 Power cost abilities), I think the animation is too fast and that super short 0,5 sec cooldown cant be utilized at all. You probably noticed that everybody is talking about HB's Solar Flare while discussing Hybrid or as we know it Weapon clipping play style because Solar Flare is one of the fastest and at the same time potent enough combos in game. Current Live Server animation of Transmutation is much slower and cooldown is surely longer than 0,5sec but it still fits perfect to clip multiple Solar Flares in a row.

    I appreciate that you guys are trying to bring new stuff to the game but turning Transmutation into super fast projectile doesnt help at all. You have to have a specific loadout and rotation in mind when you implement any changes. Id rather get Liver Server version of Transmutation with increased damage and 200 Power cost instead of 100.
    • Like x 1
  8. Maxwill Committed Player

    Can you be more specific please?
    • Like x 1
  9. Infamous Hacker Active Player

    Im overjoyed with these changes, and very pleased that you are looking at balancing the 3 playstyles. Im also dementedly happy with the return of Shard of Life, and the functionality of Transmutation. The niche I personally feel like these powers should fill is simply coverage, utility, and dependability.

    Coverage: Shard of Life was a LONG range power with a considerable AoE burst. Transmutation was a fast AoE burst power, whats not to like there? We simply didnt have this before Transmutation came along.

    Utility: Shard is a very long range power interaction applicator that also dealt more damage over time, I think Soul Siphon was made inferior as a long range Power Interaction applicator by Shard of Life. Transmutation was an excellent way to take advantage of the power application at a long range using a burst power. Both of these powers had a superb AoE making them optimal for use in DCUO as we HAD TO stay as far away from enemies and bosses as possible.

    Dependability: They were the best (fast) ranged attack options in Sorcery, as the others were simply inferior. Soul Storm was slow and unusable (you've fixed that). Soul Barrage was always terrible in damage/animation, it felt like this power was a throw away ability that was put in there because no one wanted to think of something more useful (you have improved its damage, but I still feel its rather uninspired especially considering its an exact replica of Electricity's Spark Barrage power). Whats uniquely terrible about Soul Barrage/Storm is that they still can and will miss their targets A LOT. For a long time Soul Siphon was a weak ability, its damage simply didnt compare to Transmutation and Shard, so I left it off of all of my loadouts. Ive been forced to use the Fury for so long anyway, that there was NO reason to even take a second look because I didnt have the space in my loadout for it. Shard can miss its intended targets also (its very annoying when it does), but over all it happens FAR less than Soul Barrage/Storm, and it was by a wide margin more useful. Transmutation was arguably the MOST dependable power Sorcery had. If you missed for whatever the reason with this power then attacked using a weapon the damage would re-apply onto your new target sometimes. Also if you used it on one enemy and another lunged at you or happened to come into the AoE after the animation and visual effect for Transmutation had ended the damage would somehow comeback to hit the new enemy as well. I dont know if that was intended, but thats how it is currently on live and its pretty amazing.

    I hope this is what you meant on feedback for the niche they filled.
    • Like x 1
  10. VioletSorceress Committed Player

    Ive noticed that Gadget's Fear Gas is a mobile channel now, what about my request to change Soul Storm to a mobile channel as well ?
    Atm we cant move while we cast it and if we try to JUMP damage stops, not great situation for a 3 ticks channeled ability.
    • Like x 2
  11. Black Dawn Steadfast Player


    Thank you DEVS for bringing this back to the game. I am just so happy. Thank you again and I look forward to testing further.
  12. Cold Fusion Well-Known Player

    [quote="Avair, post: 390176


    Many of you raised concerns about the viability of Sorcery DPS without pets. This splits into 2 issues: pet builds outperforming non-pet builds and Sorcery’s lack of options for PftT.

    For pets, we’ve reduced their damage to make them competitive with other abilities for players that are well equipped, but not fully maxed out. This means that when characters are weaker (lower SP, not fully modded, etc.), pets will tend to outperform raw abilities. However, once characters are fully equipped with mods, generator mods, tactical mods, skill points, consumables, etc., abilities should outperform pets.[/quote]

    A few things guys...

    As has already been stated... We already have this pet on live.
    Great at entry tier CR not great at top tier CR.
    If y'all are going to revamp... You need to fix the problem.

    Pet powers have never been a PFtT power set. If people want that they can choose from other powers.
    Same if people don't like combo powers Hard Light and Celestial are not for them... Are y'all going to destroy their combos damage to off set for PFtT so combos are only great at entry tried CR but weaker at top CR tier ? No.. No your not.

    Don't forget your feedback is from a very small sampling size of the community.

    Earth and Sorcery are pet powers plain and simple... Don't fix what's not broke... Fix what's broke.
    • Like x 1
  13. WildcatHunter Committed Player

    Please do the right thing and get rid of pets being cr based that way you can balance these with everything else in this revamp. Otherwise you end up with them either over or underperforming now and definitely in the future. Everything else in this revamp will be stat based and stats matter don't leave fury and crystal as is.
    • Like x 1
  14. WildcatHunter Committed Player

    Moja I'm sure its been considered but why continue with a non damaging stat being demanded for dps. If you have 3 play styles and 2 true dps stats make higher might increase power regen. This latest version and future ones are said to benefit from a balanced build for hybrid so you go full might for pfft, prec and might balance for hybrid and full prec for weapon. I feel like forcing pfft to center their entire build mostly on power is senseless along the lines of how ice tanks used to benefit more by speccing resto (healer stat) instead of dom (tank stat).
  15. Jacob Dragonhunter Steadfast Player

    It's not back in the game, it was a typo. Looks like Karmic Suspension is here to stay despite it's negative feedback :/
  16. WildcatHunter Committed Player

    I'm on my phone so fishing through that long post and doing a proper quote is hard but here is one from the end "We’re specifically working to bring back Shard of Life and restore the functionality of Transmutation". Wouldn't need to bring back karmic suspension.
  17. Black Dawn Steadfast Player


    EDIT: but if:
    Is true, then it can still be brought back to the game. They might just still be working on it. Which give me hope.
    *Blue ring of Hope scans Dawn*
  18. Jacob Dragonhunter Steadfast Player

    Did they say this on twitter or what? I'd Like a Link to see proof if this is true. Because right now it's confusing, and I seriously dislike KS.

    • Why do we have 4 Different Karma Applicators? We have COD(Circle of destruction), Karmic suspension, Soul storm, and Baleful Transmogrification.
    • Soul Storm should be mobile and either it or circle needs to leverage bad karma
    • On a personal note: I still want Shard of Life to return, Karmic Suspension just sucks in comparison.
    • Karmic Suspension is also only mid-range, so compared to SoL; KS doesn't have any damage over time,doesn't have healing overtime, and has weaker range, do I need to go further on how this doesn't work as a replacement for Shard Of Life?
    • Besides just being meh, PftT works pretty well with Sorcery , but it's so bland and so boring;I'd much rather play hybrid like in the old days.
    Avair, you had pets being listed in your "Specialized Playstyles" back in the original stats-matter 1.3 thread. If that's the case then why is the formula you guys have set in the OP of this thread, gonna have Fury under-performing to users who are using PFTT and are fully geared?

    If you really want a Simple Solution to those problems, just make Fury a Might-based pet and let us test it out.
  19. WildcatHunter Committed Player

    Very confusing and unclear but its actually in the last sentence of the first post top of this page. I would vote for an equal percentage split on fury's stats so prec+might=fury dps since most would prefer to use fury in a hybrid loadout. Avairs post about this weeks general improvements says that hybrid style will benefit from a balanced prec/might build.
  20. Xibo Loyal Player

    Pets always were CR based since your creation and no need to change that for Might or Precision based. The problem is that as already mentioned above by Violet that only on raids, Sorcery is under-performing against Mental, Gadgets, Munitions and Ice because adds have high health. In my opinion, the solution for that could be increase slightly the power return given by Offering.
    • Like x 1
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