Stats Revamp 1.3: Gadgets

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by Shin-O-B, Jan 27, 2017.

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  1. Shin-O-B Developer

    Probably not any time soon... After Mental had Thought Bubble replaced, there was a sudden outcry for it to return. The debuff on Stasis Field is low cost and should still work, even if the encase does not take hold. Also, to help with some of the issues with encasements Napalm Grenade, Thermite Mine, Sticky Bomb, and Self-Destruct Signal will be able to explode encasements in the next build! :)
    • Like x 4
  2. Shin-O-B Developer

    It's possible! No promises though... ;)
  3. Shin-O-B Developer

    Good catch! Thank you :) That's pretty hilarious!

    We would love for this to be the case, but it is not possible right now. In an effort to make Self-Destruct Signal more compelling, it will explode Stasis Field encasements in the next build. :)
    • Like x 1
  4. BumblingB I got better.

    What about stat allocation for a specific test at say 166CR?

    Can you consider also allowing it to be mobile, as well as any other channel or cast power in the game?

    :(

    Cryo-Foam or Cryo-Field? As Cryo-Field is very meh, compared to other powers that are a higher range and cost/cooldown.

    How different is the damage compared to cryokinesis? Both are low cost spam, but cryokinesis sets up pi and benefits from it.

    That was the problem. Fear Gas now is cryo-foam, while Cryo-Foam is like another grenade power. The animation on it for the cost and cooldown are not equal to powers that do the same.

    I would very much like encasements to go, like you did for Mental. As for EMP, I know you said you don't want Gauss to be too much of everything, but it was a good spot for it. I would prefer it to stay on that, but if it had to be changed, something single target or medium cost would be better suited.

    It's understandable, I can live with it. Too bad there is no options for other power sets.

    Yeah, that's great, but content dictates otherwise. Even now, a rage DPS, that has to be on top of an enemy can't last long with it's mechanic. A dead player does not damage. I'll bring up Penryn's post in another thread about back flip. Options for skirmish makes it more useful to know. Right now, it's more ontop of, than in and out of. Which makes it harder for players that have specific movement modes.

    Which is my point. Cooldowns on those should be lowered. The power cost itself are deterrents from spamming them. If I am speccing for power based on Avairs set for pftt option, I should be able to slot higher costing powers. If I run out, I can work on rotations for them. It's a reward for having a good spec. Just spamming lower costing powers breeds bland rotations.
  5. BumblingB I got better.

    That's a good option, but that doesn't help other players that now are unable to hit them if they are encased. Are you (the devs) going to be adding encasement breakers on all powersets?

    Also, I really liked Thought Bubble being replaced. :/
  6. Karasawa Loyal Player

    Le sigh. Well that's nice that you guys really care for the minority of players that actually like encasements (lookin at you Sir Ivy) even if it's to the detriment of the rest of us. May as well give Mental back its encasement too (sigh).

    Could we look into making it so *any* damaging ability cast from *any* group member can explode an encasement? That would make this situation more tolerable for the rest of us at least.
    • Like x 1
  7. TheDark Devoted Player

    Seriously... aside from the high power cost on EMP, it's not bad as a defense debuff. The whole reason is got bad traction in the first place is because players didn't know it could debuff from far range and jumped the gun with negative responses based on that. It's fine as is. I prefer another debuff with multitarget damage for offensive troll reasons. Having a power that is single target damage for defense debuff with that in mind would be silly. It's not a well thought out suggestion.

    With Stasis field now having encasment breakers (something I've asked for years ago and glad to see now) it makes for a more engaging aspect for controlling Assuming you guys can adjust power heals.

    As for The crit innate, have you tried strict locking the bonus within stealth form? The problem is the crit innate carries out on a. attack even after stealth form is gone. The crit innate should only apply to powers in stealth form and end when the form has ended. In other words, damage role form or controller role form end the crit innate buff even if it's a DoT type ability.

    Also, are there any plans to adjust decoy? It's nerfed based on exaggerated feedback.

    I'm wondering about FG... If you reduce the channeling duration... you might reduce the damage too much. What % were being thought of in damage reduction?
  8. Mystere Well-Known Player


    Thanks for the information. One comment, the taser, fear, vortex, pdart combo you mentioned has a few issues:

    1. The animations and dovetails make it feel clunky to cast consecutively
    2. Fear gas has a long channel time that you cant jump clip and winds up being a big dps loss compared to weapon combo clipping - in fact, whatever power rotations you pick need to be balanced again a weapon combo, pdart option. When testing, you could weapon combo clip into BattleDisplay weapon combo into pdart and then just weapon combo pdart and outperform almost everything else.
    3. Taser, fear and vortex have range issues while pdart doesnt. There should be a viable full range option for the combination when PfTT.
  9. Crimson Mayhem Loyal Player

    This rotation should work Power consumption wise but as I noticed earlier, there are no cheap multi target damage powers anymore. That makes this rotation either unpractical in most situations, or at least feel that way.
    I can imagine that the damage difference wouldn't be all that bad since the single target powers should do more damage relatively than what we are used from live, and PI damage has been lowered so that having only one electrified target should be a minor damage loss. Still, it would be good to have at least one cheap spammable multi target power. I don't think anyone would care if PDart got reverted to an aoe and had its damage adjusted accordingly.

    This is a real bummer. Gadgets has always been known for versatile PI (check) and fast clipping - the latter being attributed mostly to Fear Gas JC and Stealth clipping. Being forced to channel FG for the whole time is going to be a major setback for the characteristic Gadgets playstyle.
    Why couldn't it be similar to how it was always on live, doing less than full damage when JCed? You could just let us have the dot ticks and leave out the PI burst at the end if we JC, or move the PI burst to the front again and let JC kill the dot instead. Couldn't the damage be shifted a bit between the burst and dot?

    On top of that, the removal of the Stealth crit bonus (which is OK) currently threatens to kill off our other key clipping feature as well. Please find a way to make the Stealth specialty powers more useful. As I pointed out a few days ago, the Mines don't have a niche and the Stealth only powers don't feel worth it either. I would really like for Stealth to become a viable mechanic especially since you said you aim for all powers to be viable in some way.

    My suggestions are these (updated):
    Stealth - cooldown lowered to 12s to allow for a quicker rogue like build going in and out of Stealth often
    Thermite Mine - cheap cost [100], applies aoe burn (it's a melee range Napalm alternative)
    Implosion Mine => Flash Grenade (fires instantly) - medium cost PBAOE burst, exploits burn (it's a cheaper more spammable version of Sticky Bomb, and combines with Thermite Mine)
    Surprise Attack - applies Daze (and if possible, could lower Stealth cooldown to allow for retreating to Stealth quickly after succesfully using it)
    Cuff'em - exploits Daze (combines with Surprise Attack, and if possible, could affect the Stealth cooldown as well)
    • Like x 2
  10. Shin-O-B Developer

    Unfortunately, it wouldn't be as simple as flipping a switch to allow all abilities to do so. We would either need a major code change or we would have to modify each ability one by one to make that happen. For now, this change should help out Gadgets in a mechanical (and thematic) way.
  11. BumblingB I got better.

    That is rather disappointing, but if we have to keep encasements, then I guess this will do.
  12. Shin-O-B Developer

    We care about all of you! :) However, I would like to take more care before removing and replacing abilities again. With Mental, Thought Bubble was replaced with a mechanic that Mental was outright lacking: a pull. It seemed like an easy decision at the time, but feedback suggests that it may have been a hasty one.

    That said, the return of Thought Bubble isn't completely off the table. As we all know, there are a lot of issues with encasements and I think that we can all agree that it would be better to improve them than to remove them. I wish I could tell you that it is an easy problem to fix.
  13. TybeeTahiri Devoted Player

    I just want to throw this feedback out there: the problem with encasements, even WITH a breaker, is that before you break them, in the chaos of a raid, someone has likely already hit them and bounced them away.

    Is there no way to just root the Stasis Field encasements, like Hal Jordan's cage ?

    Ps Thanks for the hard work :)
    • Like x 2
  14. HoiiowDreamz Dedicated Player

    The only negative feedback I saw about that replacement was the fact you guys didn't make the pull optional. You replaced one problem (encasement) with another (unwanted forced pull + debuff combination). If you made it like how Munitions + HL's pulls/debuffs were, it wouldn't be a problem.
    • Like x 1
  15. HoiiowDreamz Dedicated Player

    Not a perfect solution but one method would be to bot clip the encasement with the breaker so it breaks like half a second after it registers. But some people don't like the idea of bot clipping so meh.
  16. Crimson Mayhem Loyal Player

    This is exactly what I would like to see. Well, at least it's the first part. Make encasements rooted/heavy and cube shaped like Hal's cage or Clown Box so that they can't be moved around by attacks (although maybe picked up). The second part is allowing for all damage to pass through the encasement and hit the target, although that may be less important. If encasements can be used as "hard" cc to take one or two NPCs out of the fight, carry them somewhere and have them stay there, that would be decent already.
  17. BumblingB I got better.

    I believe a lot of people would appreciate that. Especially if it is hard to allow other powers to be encasement breakers. At least this way if we setup the encasement, we would have time to break it again. In solo and duo content, I definitely would be knocking away my own stasis fields and if a troll is using it as an SC generator, then we definitely would see problems arise in group content when it both blocks damage and allows for them to go flying everywhere. Like a billiard table.
  18. Penryn The Gadgeteer

    New Bug Reports

    Battle Display
    Nothing is being displayed under "Current Effects" when I use this power.

    Cuff'Em
    Still applying the Terror PI. Needs to be Dazed.

    The in-game description needs to be updated so it mentions "Retains Stealth."

    Gauss Grenade
    Does two damage ticks if both Frostbite and Burning are applied before using Gauss Grenade:
    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dc...revamp-1-3-gadgets.283808/page-6#post-3896049

    Fear Gas
    Producing an inconsistent number of damage ticks:
    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dc...revamp-1-3-gadgets.283808/page-6#post-3895986

    Holographic Decoy
    Still applying the Terror PI. Needs to be Dazed.

    Paralying Dart
    In-game description says it is vulnerable to interrupt, but the vulnerability was removed.

    Stasis Field
    Stasis Field is not producing damage on nearby enemies when the encasement is destroyed with Napalm Grenade and Sticky Bomb:
    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dc...revamp-1-3-gadgets.283808/page-6#post-3896023

    Suppressor Turret
    The patch notes say "Suppressor Turret - now has a 15 second duration and 30 second cooldown". However, you can summon it again immediately after the 15 second window.
    • Like x 1
  19. Penryn The Gadgeteer

    Question
    The descriptions for Napalm Grenade, Self-Destruct Signal, and Sticky Bomb all read as follows:
    "Enemies Encased by Gadgets will explode and damage nearby enemies."

    What happens if I encase something with Cryo-Foam and Cryo-Field? Does that count as a Gadgets encasement?

    EDIT:
    Initial testing seems to suggest that this description only applies to Stasis Field encasements.

    The wording is vague enough that it could lead you to believe otherwise.
  20. BumblingB I got better.

    Oh... dang, I was hoping it would burst any encasement.
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