Stats Revamp 1.3: Gadgets

The cooldown problem is across the powersets. Its like they focused on power cost and dmg ranges for power cost but forgot about animation times and dovetails and recharge times. Makes the flow of combat within the powersets feel clunky. This forces you to go to weapon combo clip into a fast recharging hard hitting combo. For gadgets I saw best dmg opening with Napalm into weapon combo into pdart. Low power usage with recharge times that aligned to weapon combo length. You can spam that and outperform almost everything else. The same type of mechanic worked for elec, atomic and mental. If they don't fix this all of the power sets will play the same and be boring as hell.

I do agree with you.

Though to be fair, Avair mentioned they are going to revisit cooldowns after this testing period:
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dcuo/index.php?threads/stats-revamp-1-3.283783/

With respect to Gadgets, I find the current cooldowns on several powers to be clunky. I've commented on several specific powers in previous posts. It has been hard for me to find a loadout/rotation that feels natural/fluid. Playing the Hybrid style, I'm clipping my weapon attacks with the next power in the rotation and it all feels very slow/robotic. Even if I have enough power, I can't do consecutive casts on specific powers due to the cooldowns.

Just to get this off my chest...it's great that you brought back cryo foam but you went and changed it so while the power name is there it's not the power it once was and you should have just left it out instead of messing with it. When people said they wanted cryo foam back they didnt mean what we got they meant cryo foam that we had for 6 years. This changing things like this has gotten out of hand and to all you guys testing and want change and wanted cryo back have a back bone and say so don't just go along with it cause you feel important that your helping test this stuff.

You guys can't be happy with how things are especially with the huge amount of useless changes and the long list of bugs. Just like how we said we didn't like the pace of combat so they take that and turn it into we want 5 dps lol common already.

I went on testing some rotations and Pdart needs a buff. Let it be like cryokinesis. Which setups and consumes it's own PI. It can be a low cost spammable power. A good range dazed PI setup. Otherwise you are using Fear Gas for that. Which I detest when you jump cancel it you lose your damage, but at least it does still setup the PI.

So, can Paralyzing Dart be a PBAOE around the target that setups Dazed as well as Consumes Dazed?

i've read that they decreased the cooldown of the powerdump to 1.5 sec which result in controllers being pure batteries again.. even when they dump every 1.5secs and with a SC up they cant keep some people powerbars up. i thought they said they wanted to get rid of the battery aspect of controllers? but instead they bring it back to the old days where u need 3 Batteries (not controllers) to keep some people power bar up. whos bright idea was it to make EMP a defense debuff? or add a SC gen on stasis field? which made it to have a rediculous cooldown and sinds its a defense debuff aswell it limits the debuffing not to speak of tank hating on the encasement statis does. gonna keep my hopes up for more changes to come though lol.

I don't see how PFT is going to work with this build.
There are only three cheap damage powers: Stasis Field, Taser Pull and PDart. SF is an SC generator so it does crap damage and has a long cooldown - not useful for 5 second rotations. All three are single target so they're unpractical for multi target situations. The other options are Stealth and Distract which are long cooldown utility powers. That means, assuming that the suggested 1 cheap - 3 medium - 1 expensive power setup works, I'll have to pad my rotation with a cheap power that either can't be used every rotation or has negligible benefit for a standard (multi target) situation.
Can we please get a guideline for how much we should invest into Power/what our Power pool should be to allow for the suggested 1-3-1-SC PFT setup? With 36k Power at CR175 it still felt very tight and after a few Breakouts I went dry every time.

SUGGESTION:
I'd prefer if PDart and Sticky switched Power costs (to be more similar to what we know from live), and Sticky to be a multi target Daze setup again. PDart would probably need to take the place of the expensive Burning utilizer then. That way Sticky would be the go-to PFT starter, setting up a multi target PI for cheap cost, allowing for a smooth transition to the medium cost PI chaining with Gauss/CFoam/FG/Napalm up to an expensive PI finisher. PDart could stay single target in that scenario to have an expensive single target finisher option.

BUG: PDart description says vulnerable to interrupt but it isn't.
Why is EMP Pulse still vulnerable though? It shouldn't be unless its damage is higher than the other expensive PI finishers.

that was my suggestion. following notes:
- formally on decoy, which did no damage and I wouldn't like using as a dps
- stasis had poop damage, which was a requirement for SC gen stated on mental earlier so i'd prefer a weak dot than no damage at all (maybe make napalm explode it to get rid of the encasement to help with not being annoying)
- that was when gauss grenade was still a ranged debuff option instead of EMP which I hate.

Seriously what is wrong with how gadget is on live. Rework emp and battle display and I'll be happy. Why is this so hard?

I think a slight tweak to a few powers, like Turret and EMP/Pdart. Remove Battle Display and replace it with another power. It would work fine under their change from the forced 2x4 makeup. It would be just fine.

Edit: Oh and remove encasements.

So I did a couple of Iceberg Lounge runs to compare between PFT, Hybrid, and WM builds.
These are my specs and experiences:

• CR175 with 170SP for each build

PFT:

• 10xPower VIII
• 110SP into Power, 60 into crits
• Replenishing Adapter, Reserve Tank, Escalating Might, Max Damage
• Stats: 34810 Power, 8995 Might, 9234 Precision
• Rotation: Napalm -> Foam -> Gauss -> Throwing Knives -> repeat
  • I went with 4 medium powers instead of the suggested 1-3-1
  • Throwing Knives does the same damage as Gauss from what I could see, instead I could have used Gauss twice in a row or Fear Gas, but I'm not touching that one anymore as long as I lose the full damage on JC
  • Asphyxiation Gas on bosses whenever ready
  • I'm aware that some of the PI aren't working properly

Hybrid:

• 5xMight&Power VIII, 5xPrec&Power VIII
• 100SP into Power, 60 into crits, 9 into Hand Blasters Mastery (1 leftover)
• Replenishing Adapter, Penetrating Strikes, Escalating Might, Max Damage
• Stats: 28731 Power, 9533 Might, 10017 Precision
• Rotation: Napalm /> Display -> Solar Flame /> Foam -> Solar Flame /> Gauss -> repeat
  • "/>" means clipping here
  • Asphyxiation Gas on bosses when ready

WM:

• 8xPrecision VIII, 2xPrec&Power VIII
• 90SP into Precision, 60 into crits, 20 into 2H and MA Mastery with 2H->MA combos
• Replenishing Adapter, Penetrating Strikes, Relentless Precision, Max Damage
• Stats: 22178 Power, 9073 Might, 11939 Precision
• Rotation: Napalm /> Display -> 2H Spinning Punch Mastery -> Sticky Bomb -> repeat
  • at this point I realized once again that the 2H->MA combos are some of the worst and clunkiest WM combos we have
  • because of all the low damage taps in the WM combos, they were doing garbage damage so I just said screw it and switched to Home Run clipping
• Second Rotation: Napalm /> Display -> Home Run /> Sticky -> Home Run /> Foam -> repeat
  • feels way better, I don't understand who came up with some of those ridiculous WM combos
  • Asphyxiation Gas on bosses whenever ready

Results:

• PFT clear time: 9:30 min
• PFT feels better than before but a rotation with only medium powers or 1-3-1 as suggested still leaves me dry before I can defeat any of the bosses because of all the CC forcing me to breakout
• Having a cheap multi target damage power (with or without PI) would go a long way here and at least enable a 1-3-0 setup
• No Power problems on adds thanks to blue bubbles

• Hybrid clear time: 7:50 min
• Feels oldschool and smooth, no significant Power problem
• Only Problem was getting interrupted constantly but that's a matter of chosing the right weapon and combo for the right occasion - using melee combos on Penguin easily gets you killed so switching between two weapon types would be optimal for this instance
• Also, Gauss (and occasionally Napalm) constantly missed because of Solar Flame's CC in combination with the awful Grenade ballistics - PLEASE make Gauss especially more like Paralytic Dart, this has been a problem for years

• WM clear time: 8:55 min
• As I said, 2H->MA WM combos feel bad and don't do enough damage to justify the feeling-bad-ness
• Home Run clipping is surprisingly smooth and I didn't have Power problems as long as I didn't overdo the Sticky Bombs
• Replacing Sticky with Foam or another medium-cost power may allow for using Suppressor Turret, I didn't use it because its duration seems bugged

So the hybrid approach was notably faster than the other playstyles. PFT still had some Power problems even though I pretty much maxed out Power from an average player perspective. To be fair, I didn't have generator mods or league proficiencies this time around. Those would have boosted me up another couple thousand points and probably made PFT perfectly viable. On the other hand, I already had to sacrifice 8 affinity slots and all Might investments for this build.
WM felt bad. Castbar clipping is clunky already but the 2H->MA combos felt uncomfortable and not strong enough. Home Run clipping on the other hand felt super smooth. I never had Power problems with that even though I used two expensive powers (Sticky and Display), and the knockback from my combos kept all the mobs from doing any serious damage to me.
Solar Flame clipping was quick and smooth as it should be. Considering that PFT was my first run and I got interrupted by loot windows, PFT and WM seemed to perform similarly. Hybrid was faster but for several reasons I wouldn't call it straight up superior just yet. All three playstyles seem to be viable though, especially with more time spent on optimizing loadouts and rotations.
Weapon choice, PI and cooldown fixes along with generator mods could have made significant differences there. As I said above, shifting around some of our powers to have a cheap multi target damage power would be great for PFT.

To be honest I like the way they setup Napalm, Gauss, Fear Gas and CFoam to allow for chaining between Burn, Elec, Daze and Frost. That's much closer to what I expected when they announced "advanced power interactions" AM, and much better than the minimalistic 1.2 version.
Mechanics wise I also like how Power management works with the revamp.

That said, here are a couple things I don't like currently:

• Encasements suck, seriously no one was ever heard saying "LF TROLL WITH ENCASEMENTS" or "I'm so happy you encased those guys, GG" - at least give us an encasement breaker if we're going to have an encasement on a key power
• Counter vulnerability on EMP needs to go
• Further delayed damage on Sticky Bomb instead of three faster ticks, most of the time my trash adds were dead before Sticky went off
• The new standard weapon buffs are kinda boring compared to the old different stat and Proc buffs, also having them at 50% uptime and 6s duration just makes them high-variance and doesn't help long WM combo builds at all
• PDart feels kinda useless, as I said I'd prefer if it was a single target expensive finisher utilizing burn, and Sticky being a cheap multi target Daze setup
• Fear Gas sigh
• Still not sure how the Mines are supposed to be used
  • TMine is a burn setup but it's expensive so Napalm does it better
  • IMine is an electrify exploiter but EMP does the same thing for the same cost
  • imo they need their PI and possibly costs shifted around so that they either work off each other or at least have their own niches in the PI web
• Surprise Attack and Cuff 'em feel useless as ever
  • I'd consider using them if they instantly reset Stealth cooldown to allow for a rapid hit&run Stealth build with Mines - that's something we never had so far
  • Thinking about it, I actually like that idea! Shift around the PI and costs a bit to make Surprise Attack, Cuff'em, and the Mines to interact in some way, then give us a way to return to Stealth quickly after Surprise Attack, Cuff'em or just incoming damage takes us out of Stealth

Though I agree with how you saw the PI cycle, those are the only ones that really do that. And to be honest, not all different than what we had before.

The mines are just flavor at this point. Like encasements, they would be too specific and not used. If they were a PBAOE at your feat that had instant cast, like a grenade lob (Think Gauss at your feet.) they would be very useful. Since it's a range situation, you have risk vs reward to go with it.

Suprise Attack and Cuff'em is just silly to me. Those would be more beneficial in PvP than PvE. Like they were originally. Stealth Mechanics are just awkward when it comes to PvE. Sometimes you are detected, sometimes you are not. If we are building for PvP, then them being left in would be fine, but since we are testing for PvE, I don't even see them letting you back into stealth being all that beneficial. Then again, I always though stealth was just weird in the powerset and never used it. I know Penryn loves stealth. lol

Those are the only ones that do that so they basically form a flexible core for any kind of multi-PI rotation. It is similar to the relation they have on live, but it's much cleaner, integrates Daze, and the changes to burning make all four PI equally important. And since people are asking for it to stay similar to live, this is the structure I would like to have - with some fixes to Fear Gas, and maybe restoring the DoT on Foam and the burst on Napalm if necessary.

I agree with you that they are too specific to be used, and are more of a gimmick now (and have been). For PvP they could still be useful but for PvE not so much. Turning one of them into a PBAOE burst would give us a burst alternative to the new Cryo Field, I'd support that if it benefited from some PI. I do like them as they are though, they just need to be integrated better into the PI web and have their cost adjusted to have an own niche. I mean, that's pretty much the same as you are suggesting by making them PBAOE. What they need is a niche where they are the go-to choice, be it a PBAOE burst PI exploiter or a cheap spammable multi target PI setup. The cast time and cooldown on TMine are already good imo but since it's an expensive power, Napalm is straight up better.
I think I'd do something like this:
Thermite Mine - cheap cost [100], applies burn (easy enough, it's a melee range Napalm alternative, done)
Implosion Mine => Flash Grenade (fires instantly) - medium cost PBAOE burst, exploits electrify and applies Daze

You could use one of them once every 30 seconds like a modern version of using PDart from Stealth with the AM. That's really nothing you can build around. If they got you back into Stealth quickly, that would enable a more Rogue like build where you go in and out of Stealth quickly and use Mines and Stealth attacks in rotation. I mean, it's probably not something everyone would want to do (also RIP PS3 with constant form switching lol) but it's surely a playstyle some people would like.
It would be a way to tie Stealth, Stealth attacks and Mines together into a "Stealth module" and make them integrate into existing playstyles at the same time. People have used BB from Stealth for eternity, now they could build their whole rotation around clipping into and out of Stealth. I don't know, it was just a quick idea but I'd like to try playing like that.

Encasements just straight up suck, the only thing that could make them useful would be to turn them into heavy boxes (like Clown Box or Hal Jordan's cage encasement) and to obviously make them act like stuns and not shields to the target. Or, you know, they could get rid of them and make them pseudo-encasements like Harvest (which, on the other hand, should have its stun removed).

Well, u are right on the stasis part. I did not took the dps aspect in mind. So yh stasis as a SC builder isnt to bad for dpsing (like decoy was before). But still out of all the power they went with EMP being a defensive debuff, which i really dont get. Was there not another power they could have picked xD. They could have just fixed gauss and left it on there (the bug with its missing its target) or hell even sinds cryo foam is back stick on that sinds its roots. The way i see it now is either we debuff with a encasement (stupid bubbles) and get a bit of SC but at a high cooldown cost. Or go with EMP which u need to be in midrange for it to hit. Dont know if the debuff tags at long range.

As long as the target reticle is red, the debuff will register:


Same with Vortex Cannon:


Cryo-Field works the same way.

I suppose the question here, is it intended to register w/o the hit? Also does it actually debuff or is it visual, like that bug that happened a year or two ago? As I can see you are out of combat.

Game Update 50

There was an update a long time ago that guaranteed that debuffs would hit, even if you are out of range.

In this particular situation, I believe you'll only go into combat if you register damage.

I would love to do some testing to see if the long-range debuffing is working properly. but I'll need an alert group for that.

Huh, I glossed over that. Thanks for the refresher.

So essentially, you don't have to get within range to debuf, you just have to target the enemy. I still don't like the debuf being on EMP, but I'm less concerned now.

Feedback
I made my first attempt at playing from the tray for Stats Revamp 1.3. By playing from the tray, I mean not using any weapon attacks. I used the T8 Seeing Shades solo as a test ground.

Setup
Role: Controller with DPS gear. That gives you passive power over time and better control effects.
Speccing Strategy: I was specced heavily into Power and was using Might&Power mods.
Trinket: Central City Controller trinket
Loadout:

• Suppressor Turret - Pet that provides free damage. Can be used as an aggro target if paired with Distract.
• Sticky Bomb - Expensive multi-target power
• Paralyzing Dart - Cheap single-target power
• Holographic Decoy - Used in the boss sections
• Distract - Used when Holographic Decoy was on cooldown
• Battle Drone - I was going to use this for power recovery, but that strategy doesn't work without a SC Generator. If I had to do the test again, I'd use Fear Gas if it was applying the correct PI.

Plan for the Artemis Fight
For attacking, I would use Paralyzing Dart. If my power would get a bit low, I would use Holographic Decoy or Distract to draw aggro away from me. I would then use the Central City trinket's hold range attack to do damage while my power bar refilled.

Here is a video of the Themyscira section and Artemis fight:


Results
Artemis kept casting that fire pool in mid-air. That makes it difficult to see and I had to use a soda once to recover health. I accidentally used Sticky Bomb a couple of times. I should have stuck with just using Paralyzing Dart to attack Artemis. I could have used the Home Turf trinkets to shorten the fight, but wanted to see how I would do without them. I was able to complete that section without using a weapon.

In a prolonged fight, I would have thrown in an occasional weapon attack so Replenishing Adapter would proc.

In case anyone is wondering about the "power return" ability on the Central City trinket, it isn't worth using. It barely returns more power than a power over time tick.